Speer Short Barrel 135 g .357 vs. Buffalo Bore 158g .38 spl.+P out of a snub nose?

transit · Sep 23, 2019

Has anyone fired enough of both to compare?

I have shot the heavy Buffalo Bore through a no-dash M640, and an M642.

I found it VERY shootable in the M640, and a bit "Wow!" in the M642, but even there, totally not unusable.

I've never tried the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain .357 Magnum, which is often described as .357 -P.

Bench racing the two, seems like the Speer should be easier shooting, based on weight and velocity.

Anyone know?

Seems like: if the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grain .38 spl +P has proven street credentials (-and it does) then maybe the .357 version might just be a slightly hotter version that would deliver more expansion, and still be usable in the lightweight guns.

The Buffalo Bore +P is very good, but maybe too hot in the lightweight guns.

-I've also shot the standard pressure Buffalo Bore, and it's an easy shooter; but testing suggests that it doesn't offer much potential for expansion out of the short barrels, even under the best of circumstances.

Thanks!

flintsghost · Sep 23, 2019

Speer Gold dot short barrel is simply the best ammo you can get in 38, 357, and 44 mag. No comparison. It's got good penetration and preformance and it also is among the most accurate rounds you'll try. Add to that the bonded core bullet for total bullet performance. I use the 38 short barrel in my 637 no dash pre production and it is the best ammo I tried. I like the 357 short barrel in my 66 2.5" and the 44 short barrel in my 629-1 3".

IAhunter · Sep 23, 2019

I tried both and went with the Speer SB load. Nothing wrong with the Buffalo Bore 158 load (either of them), accurate and the +P load is hot. They're just pricey. If I want hotter loads, I'll carry magnums.

Nevada Ed · Sep 24, 2019

Both work................

I just needed to see where each struck the target at 5 yards
with the recoil and also see if one let you get back on target faster for a second shot !!

Both had a different POI and felt recoil in my revolver.

Good luck.

stoneke · Sep 24, 2019

In my 3 inch K's, I carry the first two chambers loaded with the BB 158 SWC +P, followed by four Speer 135 short bbl magnums. The Speer rounds have slightly more perceived recoil and blast. No significant difference in POI.

Cal44 · Sep 24, 2019

I've shot the 357 Gold Dot 135 gr in my LCR and a M60.

Very controllable load.

Similar recoil to Blazer 158gr with I use as cheap 357 mag practice ammo.

I like the term 357-p to describe this GD load.

deyomatic · Sep 24, 2019

Accoring to Target Sports USA, the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grn +P .38 Special is rated at 945 fps and the Short Barrel 135 grain .357 magnum is rated at 990 fps.
The .357 doesn't seem that exciting to me.

Cal44 · Sep 24, 2019

deyomatic said:
Accoring to Target Sports USA, the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grn +P .38 Special is rated at 945 fps and the Short Barrel 135 grain .357 magnum is rated at 990 fps.
The .357 doesn't seem that exciting to me.

Luckygunner labs shows over 200 fps difference from a 2" barrel.

A significant differenc, and much better expansion for the 357 gold dot.

transit · Sep 24, 2019

deyomatic said:
Accoring to Target Sports USA, the Speer Gold Dot Short Barrel 135 grn +P .38 Special is rated at 945 fps and the Short Barrel 135 grain .357 magnum is rated at 990 fps.
The .357 doesn't seem that exciting to me.

Speer lists them as 860 fps and 990 respectively. I think that's closer to what we see in reviews. I did see the LuckyGunner tests showing an even greater disparity. A 100+ fps difference could be of real value at these velocities.

I ask because I've been wondering if there should be a 9mm revolver in my future. I'd get some ballistic advantage over the .38.

BUT, if I swap out the .38 GDSB for the .357 version, it and the 9mm look very similar. This might make the 9mm revolver moot.

I'm interested to read stoneke's report that the 135g .357 Gold Dots have more perceived recoil that the Buffalo Bore 158g .38 +P. At the same velocity, I would have expected the heavier bullet to give more felt recoil.

I appreciate everyone's input.

stoneke · Sep 24, 2019

In my above thread, I referenced perceived recoil between the two loadings. Part of this perceived recoil incorporates the experienced muzzle blast, which was greater with the Speer magnum loading. My actual chrono readings are as follows with a 3 inch model 13 taken 12 ft from the muzzle. BB 158 gr 38 +P - avg vel @ 1050 fps. Speer 357 135 gr 357 +P - avg 1100 fps.

transit · Sep 26, 2019

stoneke said:
In my above thread, I referenced perceived recoil between the two loadings. Part of this perceived recoil incorporates the experienced muzzle blast, which was greater with the Speer magnum loading. My actual chrono readings are as follows with a 3 inch model 13 taken 12 ft from the muzzle. BB 158 gr 38 +P - avg vel @ 1050 fps. Speer 357 135 gr 357 +P - avg 1100 fps.

Presented with those factual numbers, and the perceived muzzle blast, I'd chose the Buffalo Bore.

The shorter case would mean better ejection as well. That's something I view as an advantage when using .38 in .357 revolvers.

Makes me wonder how shooting the standard pressure 147g HST compares out of a S&W M940...

...But those moonclips...

BB57 · Sep 26, 2019

Despite its reputation the Speed 135 gr .38 +P load is a marginal performer in a 2" snub nose revolver and won't give reliable expansion.

If you want a .38+P load Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr FTX .38 +P load is a much better choice with reliable expansion and about 13" of penetration in ballistic gel.

In their .357 Magnum loading the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot is a different story. From a 2" barrel it expands perfectly and penetrates to about 13". Stay away from the 158 gr Gold Dots however as they don't expand.

However, the 125 gr FTX load in .357 Magnum is also great in a 2" barrel with perfect expansion and about 15" penetration.

Another lower cost choice is the .357 Magnum Remington 158 gr SJHP. You can get a box of $50 for around $26 and it performs perfectly at 2" velocities giving excellent expansion and about 14" of penetration.

Eddietruett · Sep 26, 2019

After reading the luckygunner test, I was impressed with the Golden Saber +P. I did some not nearly as scientific testing using water jugs, wet newspaper and plywood. The Golden Saber performed better out of my 2” Model 60 and 3” Model 65 than the Speer and Hornsby. I would not feel under gunned using any of the 3 but the GS gave more consistent expansion in my test. Penetration was pretty close on all 3

Cal44 · Sep 26, 2019

I bought a bunch of Blazer 158 jhp 357 mag a while back when on sale.

I got them for practice rounds

The Blazer brass expands in the tests I've seen. Looks like a good carry and practice load.

The Aluminum version is slower and may not expand. Practice only for me.

Under 25 dollars a box.

transit · Sep 26, 2019

BB57 said:
Despite its reputation the Speed 135 gr .38 +P load is a marginal performer in a 2" snub nose revolver and won't give reliable expansion.

If you want a .38+P load Hornady Critical Defense 110 gr FTX .38 +P load is a much better choice with reliable expansion and about 13" of penetration in ballistic gel.

In their .357 Magnum loading the Speer 135 gr Gold Dot is a different story. From a 2" barrel it expands perfectly and penetrates to about 13". Stay away from the 158 gr Gold Dots however as they don't expand.

However, the 125 gr FTX load in .357 Magnum is also great in a 2" barrel with perfect expansion and about 15" penetration.

Another lower cost choice is the .357 Magnum Remington 158 gr SJHP. You can get a box of $50 for around $26 and it performs perfectly at 2" velocities giving excellent expansion and about 14" of penetration.

I've never been a huge fan of light for caliber rounds. Just what I got used to, not a dogmatic position.

Back in the day, we carried FBI loads in .38spl., as opposed to the Treasury version. Later, we were always 147g in 9mm, from the early iterations to the latest.

We've always had good success.

We've also seen good real world results here with the Speer load; as good as can be reasonably expected from 2" revolvers. And shootings with the .38 are far less common now than they were thirty or forty years ago.

I just don't know any real world on the Critical Defense stuff, so it's tough to compare.

Either way, .38 spl. will probably never be a death ray. Always compromises.

stoneke · Sep 26, 2019

The velocities that I chronographed with the Remington 38 +P Golden Sabre and the Speer 38 +P Short Bbl are as follows - again out of a 3 inch M13-3.
Rem - avg of 955 fps. Speer - 850 fps. Later testing of the Speer and Buffalo +P 357's (with a M13-2) gave respectively 1130 fps and 1085 fps. (All velocities were rounded up to the nearest 5 or 0.) I agree that there are some week ammo offerings/choices out there, but I feel quite assured with either the Speer 357 or Buffalo 38 loadings. Recoil is quite manageable from my steel M13's. Lightweight J frames is another story.

transit · Sep 26, 2019

stoneke said:
...Recoil is quite manageable from my steel M13's. Lightweight J frames is another story.

edit, mine

-And therein lies the rub.

I saw a former Newark, NJ PD backup 940 go without bids on Gunbroker today. They wanted a minimum bid of $650.

Perhaps the Glocks will continue to handle the 9mm duties, and the M&P340 will keep shooting .38 spl. As I said, the Buffalo Bore Heavy 158g +P LSWCHP was eye opening in my M642 at the time.

I find the M340 VERY soft shooting, but still... I didn't have it at the time to try the BB ammo.

Speer Short Barrel 135 g .357 vs. Buffalo Bore 158g .38 spl.+P out of a snub nose?

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