Recently, I've taken an interest in Magnum Handguns, namely Semiautomatic Pistols which are far less common than Revolvers because Magnum Cartridges being what they are by definition a powerful cartridge, are often more difficult to build an autoloader around, especially in a size/weight which makes them convenient to carry.

Anyway, while reading a series of articles on the subject, I was somewhat surprised to discover that when it comes to the subject many firearms/cartridges which I consider to be Magnum Handgun Cartridges/Pistols are notably absence.
For example, I've always considered the 10mm Auto cartridge to fall under the umbrella of Magnum Cartridges due to the fact that full-power loads are roughly equivalent to .357 Magnum, but whenever the subject of Magnum Pistols comes up, 10mm Auto is mentioned as a footnote at best. Granted that the commercial market is awash with underpowered 10mm Auto FBI Loads which launch a 180 Grain bullet at 1000 Feet Per Second, thus making them roughly equivalent to .40 S&W, but to count out a cartridge just because ammo manufacturers choose not to load it to full specifications is hardly fair, and that doesn't seem to be the reason for its exclusion, ergo I can only conclude that for whatever reason, 10mm Auto is excluded because it just isn't powerful enough even in full-power loads to be considered a Magnum Cartridge by whatever arbitrary definition or specifications the authors of these articles are going by.

So that has left me wondering; "What makes a Magnum Cartridge a Magnum Cartridge?" or more specifically; "What is the threshold for a Magnum Cartridge in terms of Ballistics Performance?"

Personally, in terms of simple energy Foot-Pounds, I would consider the bare minimum for a cartridge to be considered a Magnum Handgun Cartridge to be a modest 600+ft-lbs of energy or higher, delivered by a .30cal+ bullet weighing 124 Grains or more, simply because that's roughly the lower end of the sort of energy that one would expect from the .357 Magnum cartridge, which is essentially the premier Magnum Handgun Cartridge.
Granted that's just one method of measurement and not a particularly meaningful one in the greater scheme of things, but all things considered, I think it's a better grouping of statistic with far less variables than say Energy, Operating Pressure, Velocity, Bullet Weight or Caliber alone. Besides, this discussion isn't for the sake of reaching any definitive conclusion or establishing an official standard for Magnum Handguns to be measured by, I'm just curious what others opinions are on the matter.

What are your thoughts on the matter? What makes a Magnum Handgun Cartridge, what stats do you measure them by, (Pressure? Velocity? Energy? Caliber?) and what's your threshold for a Magnum Handgun Cartridge?

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

A magnum is a cartridge that is significantly more power than other common cartridges in the same caliber. I consider the 22 magnum and 327 Federal magnums even if they do not meet a 600 ft-lb standard for energy.

Forte,

I don't see the "Magnum" moniker as having a fixed performance standard. I see it as an evolutionary label, where the parent round was "hot-rodded" and stoked to a velocity/pressure level that was dangerous to arms originally chambered for the parent round. The sole exception to this description being the 41 Magnum, which happened to fall within the performance spectrum of the 357 and 44 Magnums.

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Judge control not gun control!

Ever since the .357 Magnum of 1935, to me it is something that manufacturers have used to indicate more power than standard (even though there was no ".357 Special" ).

Now it seems to be primarily a marketing term; sometimes it makes a difference in sales and sometimes not (the RUMs and WSSMs didn't make much of a splash, but the the 6.5 mm non-Magnum Creedmoor did, eventually).

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

A Magnum Cartridge is the cartridge Magnum used. That would be 45ACP.

Very arbitrary. I have no fixed threshold, apparently manufacturers don't either. If a manufacturer wants to call a cartridge a Magnum, fine with me. The .32 H&R Magnum is labeled a Magnum, but published performance doesn't seem very Magnum like to me. The .327 Federal yes, the .32 H&R no. After having shot and reloaded for my share of .357, .41 and .44 Magnums, the .454 Casull seems pretty Magnum to me, but isn't labeled as such. Go figure....

BTW, My chronograph and I both agree with you that 10MM ballistics are roughly equivalent to the .357 Magnum....

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NRA Life, COTEP 640

I read somewhere that the term was used to describe extra large wine or champagne bottles. A magnum of champagne was bigger than a standard bottle so, to me, a magnum is a cartridge whose case is larger (longer) than the standard on which it's based. Of course, by that standard a .32 S&W Long is a magnum. Maybe once you get beyond long you're a magnum?

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Dang, I just bough my first 32 S&W Long a few weeks ago and it has been to the range only once. Now, fhsjrm is proposing I have a magnum. Ha Ha, little I frame thinks he is a "big dog".

I concur that the idea came from the wine industry and should be applied to any chambering that is increase in lenght and pressure to "hot rod" an older chambering. We are at the mercy of the bean counters working in the firearms industry trying to decide what will sell like hot cakes next year, so they decide in the big board meeting, " call it a magnum" so we can sell many next year.
what about the super killer, the "5 mm rimfire magnum" that was introduced by Remington in 1969, I think that was the first 5mm chambering ever introduced. Bean counters at work at the board table, folks.

FYI, there exists a 10mm Magnum caliber.

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NRA Life Member

my guess as to why the 10mm is not a magnum...
the 10mm existed THEN the 40 s&w evolved.. if it had been the other way round the 10mm could have been the 40s&w magnum... but magnum is not usually first... it comes from people taking something to the limit and the industry responding with a physically larger cartridge to help save the weapons from over stress... but just a guess

The correct answer has already been given (bigger case capacity than other cartridges of the same caliber) but puzzle me this:


if a porsche 911 has a 6 cylinder turbo engine, and a porsche 911 s has a slightly more powerful 6 cylinder turbo engine, then what engine does a 911 turbo have? an even more powerful 6 cylinder turbo, of course.

What makes a magnum a magnum? Mostly some guy with a good PR man.

And how does the 357 Max fit into this?

Seems relevant - the other day at the dollar store I was amused to buy a package of "Most Stuff" Oreos. Not Extra Stuff or Double Stuff, but MOST Stuff. And indeed, they were...

I think the OP brings up an interesting point. With a focus on automatic pistols, Forte Smitten Wesson is suggesting an identifier for hard-hitting automatic pistol cartridges. Automatic pistols are popular and classification for the bigger faster rounds would be useful. Automatics have a narrower performance band for proper function than a revolver, you cannot "hotload" or "light load" a self loader without expecting performance issues. Since the "magnum" term has already been used vaguely for apparently a bigger cartridge capacity, FSW should invent the term for the useful hard hitting auto cartridge class proposed.

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Kind regards, Heinz

"Magnum" is more of a marketing designation than anything else. A cartridge earns that designation from the marketing department not the engineering department. There is no SAMMI definition.

The ".41 Magnum" has no corresponding standard velocity counterpart, and no I don't count the .41 Colt as it was long obsolete when the .41 Magnum came along and it wasn't even a .40 let alone a .41.

Don't forget the .401 Power Mag. Is the "Mag" for "Magnum"?

It's a magnum if the manufacturer labels it a magnum . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

What about .22 TCM (.22 Tuason Craig Micromagnum)

Have you ever shot one of those? I had one that made me laugh out loud every time. It has the muzzle blast and noise of a .357 and the kick of a .22 magnum. Such a blast to shoot!

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Simple difference. Two projectiles, same caliber, but the magnum is in a case that holds more powder and can be loaded to higher velocities. Why over complicate it?

You're way over thinking it .


It was dreamed up by the S&W Marketing Department when the 38 Special was enlarged to the 357 Magnum . At that time a Magnum refered to a large bottle of champagne ...larger 38 special = magnum with 357 change to elimanate confusion and it just sounds cool ... 357 Magnum .
There is no fps, bullet weight or pressure level that makes a magnum a magnum ... marketing and development calls those shots ...(excuse the bad pun)
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

Amusingly enough, technically .40 S&W DOES predate the 10mm Auto and actually WAS the basis for the cartridge.
A somewhat lesser-known fact about .40 S&W is that it was originally conceived back in the 1960s as a competition cartridge designed for Metalic Silhouette Shooting under the name ".40 Guns & Ammo" (.40 G&A for short) but ultimately didn't happen. A few years later when one of the designers was working for Smith & Wesson he had some prototypes made on the sly, renamed it ".40 S&W" and pitched it to the board of directors, but they passed on it because they just weren't interested enough in the competitive shooting market at the time to make the investment.
Eventually the design resurfaced but in a hotter configuration which was called ".40 Super" which later on became the 10mm Auto cartridge. One the FBI started having trouble with the S&W Model 1076 and started using downloaded 10mm loads, Smith & Wesson had the idea to make a cartridge that could fit in a smaller cartridge yet maintain the performance of the 10mm Auto load that the FBI was satisfied with, someone who worked with S&W remembered the old .40 S&W cartridge, and all of the load data and prototypes were still archived/stored, so they didn't actually make a would new cartridge, they merely revisited an old one which had never entered full production.

Strange, but true. You can easily verify it too by merely Google searching ".40 G&A".

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Shooting Comfort is bilateral.

One word: MARKETING.

This article notes Jeff Cooper was involved, and also that there was a "40 G&A Magnum" too... bizarre!

.40 G&A Pistol Cartridge - Revivaler

My thoughts are that the old revolvers had long cases that held Black powder in the 1890's and early 1900's......
and when smokeless powder came out, some cases could use this powder to make loads that really were, Magnum.

Most Pistol cases were short and never chaned in size and the only way to improve fps and pressures of the "Standard" load that was first designed, was to make it a .............
+P or +P+ load.

The only real pistol "Magnum" that I know of , is the 45 ACP pistol that has two barrels welded together and fires TWO bullets with each trigger pull !!

Your definition doesn't fit the .41 Magnum.

So is there a 41 special???

Semantics. I have had different semi auto Magnums. Now I have none. As a reloader I found they all have an upper threshold and a lower threshold. The Desert eagle would either jam open or fail to chamber a new round. The LAR Grizzly would just break, stay open or fail to feed. The Auto Mag just broke no matter what, and the Wildey jammed open or not at all.
A magnum cartridge should belch fire and recoil. A 327 won't do that if it's chambered in a N frame, in a J frame it does. My 475 Linebaugh has lot's of recoil as the base gun weighs 48OZ. 430 gr LBT @ 1300 fps doesn't belch much fire, but it does recoil and it's not labeled a Magnum. So I guess what makes a Magnum cartridge is simply a Manufacturer's designation.

"magnum" is a latin term that translates to "that will get er done"

S&W 357 magnum, S&W 41 magnum, S&W 44 magnum right? S&W called the marketing ploy by naming the calibers magnums sounds bad to me. These were developed to go through car doors, engine blocks, car bodies ect. Plus they make powerful hunting rounds. The got the word magnum from a bottle of wine. Bring me a magnum bottle of that wine. It’s bigger than the normal bottle. Don’t forget the 22 winchester magnum rifle, wmr.

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Plant garlic in the fall

When applied to cartridges in the past and now, the term “Magnum” is a copywriter’s ploy to attract customers. The worst example of this trickery was when H&R and Federal lengthened the 32 S&W L (itself a lengthened 32 S&W) and grandly named it the “32 H&R Magnum”) while limiting loading pressures to be usable in weak H&R revolvers! It was actually a “Magnum wannabe” and it was not until Federal finally came out with the 327 Federal Magnum that there was a .313” bore handgun cartridge that really achieved serious power. Since H&R had already used magnum in this caliber, Federal used “327” as the caliber number... actually as misleading as calling .429” bores “Forty Fours.” Of course by using a number with a totally meaningless 7 as the final digit, visions of the “original Magnum,” the 357 were meant to be invoked.

I wonder whether back in the Thirties some descendant of PT Barnum sat at a table with a magnum of champagne and the newly lengthened 38 Special round and saw a lightbulb go off. Thus was born the 357 Magnum and the race was on!

Froggie

Very true ... I remember reading about the 40 G&A and thought it was an excellent balance of bullet diameter , weight and velocity . Man that was a few "moons" back .
Thanks for the reminder ...my lateset issue Guns & Ammo was delivered the other day ... wonder what they're up to now .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

To my mind “Magnum” is mostly marketing hype denoting a bigger cartridge that purports to offer greater performance, or at least bigger and better than its predecessor(s) - we all know bigger is better.

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213th FBINA

According to Tim Mullin's book 'Magnum' (Collector Grade Pubs. 2012) the term was cribbed from Holland & Holland–the H&H .375 Magnum having been around since 1912. But S&W then trade marked the use of Magnum in 1935. This rendered Colt and others unable to label their .357 revolvers as "Magnums".

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Alden
Guns N' Rosés

Back in time (way back) Holland & Holland had a 375 rifle cartridge with a straight case and a belt for head spacing.
In 1912 they introduced the 375 H&H Magnum. The term was borrowed from the wine world. It strictly meant a cartridge with a case larger than standard for its class.
Over time the term has been used, abused, and mangled to the point where it's just PR hyperbole.
Classic example: The Winchester 458 Magnum has the SMALLEST case in its class!

You'd think in four years we would have settled this . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

"Express" cartridges were essentially magnum cartridges introduced in the mid 1800s for big game using a heavy charge of black powder. They became even more powerful with the introduction of Cordite and other smokeless 'Nitro' powders, with the .450 Nitro Express which came out in 1898.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

And the reality is that because they did not have 45 ACP blanks available in Hawaii when they began shooting the original series, but did have 9x19mm blanks, Tom Sellek's Colt 1911-A1 was actually chambered in 9mm. The 9mm magazine can be clearly seen when he puts magazines into the pistol.


As to the term "magnum", it is Latin and means "great". With champagne bottles, the magnum is larger than the standard bottle. In firearms, it generally means a more powerful cartridge and often one that is longer than an existing cartridge in the same caliber, ie: 38 Special/357 Magnum, 44 Special/44 Magnum, 10mm Auto/10mm Magnum.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

The term "Magnum" is the ammunition equivalent of "New and Improved" in the world of laundry detergent.

It is a marketing term with zero defined meaning beyond "Neat-o!"

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Pisgah

I prefer to think of any cartridge as having a personal name.
It doesn't have to mean anything.
"Little John" was the biggest man among Robin Hood's merry men.
I would not agree with your assumption that the word "magnum" is a classification of cartridge power.
Furthermore, I think that it is uninteresting to focus on tiny incremental differences in cartridges.

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696-6906-457-38-3913-CS40-411

This is the source of the term. The rest is the marketing department. The word "magnum" was in use before it was applied to metallic cartridges. It is a wine/champagne bottle twice the normal size.

I'm sure they would have named the .32 S&W Long a "magnum" if the marketing department had thought of it.

The 357 Sig died because the 357 Magnum and 357 Maximum cartridges already existed. They should have given it another name. Maybe 357 Ultimate, Supreme or Super.

Nobody knew it wasn't just another 38 cartridge. You've got to dress it up a little for people to understand it was Special.

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That's just somebody talkin.

A magnum revolver cartridge has a higher velocity and up to twice the pressure of a standard cartridge. The cylinder and barrel are made stronger to withstand this pressure. The cartridge cases are 0.1" longer so they can't be chambered in a non-magnum revolver.

I use the term "revolver" deliberately. There are a few pistols which use rimmed .44 Magnum ammunition. On the other hand, the .357 SIG is touted as "Magnum", but falls short. The SIG round achieves high velocity by using a light weight, 125 gr bullet. A .357 revolver gets the same velocity with a 148 gr bullet, and can put a 125 gr bullet into low earth orbit.

re: pistol cartridges

9mm winmag aka (9x29) and look at all the variants in between
10mm mag
45 winmag

and what's bigger than magnum...super mag
445 supermag
357 supermag

what's interesting to me, is that the 357 maximum is .005" longer than the original 357 supermag

Except the .41 Magnum doesn't meet that criteria. But it is a magnum. Because that's what marketing named it. It certainly qualifies on a power level.

Also the .32 S&W Long should be a magnum as it has 25% more pressure than the .32 S&W.

Consider the .22 Magnum. It can't accept the shorter .22's.

It's mostly marketing.

Good point, but as you know, few topics are ever settled here; four years or twenty doesn't make much difference...

I am amazed that it took this long for the 45 win mag to be brought up. This is just a short list of calibers I would consider magnum in a semiauto:

9×25 dillon
45 win mag
429de
50ae
10mm(as other have said, not the downloaded .40s&w that they label as 10mm)
Im sure that there are some im just not thinking of right now, but those are generally what i think of when I hear magnum semiauto handgun cartridges.

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Please no more EZs...

I also have one of those 44amp…auto mag pistol guns. there is also a .357amp… it goes on & on.

a generalized term based on marketing.

I'm just glad they didn't call it the 357 Jeroboam!

Cheers!

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Sit Reloader Sentiret

Plenty of room for further growth:

Double shot of brandy versus a single