FMJ vs Hollow points for carry

I went through this also since my standard Practice round is S&B 124 FMJ. I buy from J&G in AZ and sometimes they offer cases of S&B 124 Hollow Points for a very fair price. I find both rounds hit POI the same and I can keep all my guns and mags loaded now without too much cost.
 
Is a wad cutter considered a hollow point or a solid?
Asking for a friend.

Actually I think of it as a pre-expanded hollow point.
That's what I use.
But semi's don't like 'em....unless you have a 52.

OK bye.
 
max503 said:
Is a wad cutter considered a hollow point or a solid?
Asking for a friend.

Actually I think of it as a pre-expanded hollow point.
That's what I use.
But semi's don't like 'em....unless you have a 52.

OK bye.
Click to expand...

HBWC bullets are not hollow points.
 
Dave Lively said:
Lawyers may not know much about guns but they do know a lot about the court system. Its worth listening to what they have to say.

We all like to think that if we have to use a gun it will be so clearly be a case of self defense that it will never go to court. But the criminals get to decide the specific conditions, not us. Its not always clear cut.

Suppose a group of unarmed but large, strong and aggressive young teenagers tries to intimidate you into giving them your wallet and won't take no for an answer. Don't shoot and you could end up getting robbed, beaten to within an inch of your life or killed. Shoot and the media will give plenty of air time to the grieving mothers talking about how the crazy gun nut needlessly gunned down their little angels that never hurt a fly.

If it does go to court a jury of your peers will not mean 12 people that go shooting weekly and spend their spare time reading gun forums. It means 12 random people that likely know even less about guns than the attorneys you mentioned. A prosecutor could succesfully try to convince them that someone who "makes homemade bullets" is someone that was looking for a fight.
Click to expand...

My defense attorney should be able to make the case that I used HBWC reloads having less penetration in the interest of safety for innocent bystanders. I might have used factory loads but they were not available due to the ammunition crisis.
 
When forced, due to clothing limitations, to carry a .32 ACP, I stick to ball ammo. the hottest European load available. This is due to the fact that even if you get expansion, it is going to greatly decrease penetration. If you don't get to the vitals, well.....

If I was to carry a .45 ACP, I would not feel disadvantaged carrying 230 gr. ball ammo.

However, 90%+ of the time, I am carrying a 9mm, and it is stoked with Federal HST.
 
UNCLE PAULY said:
The instructor at my range says once you find a defense load that works well in your carry gun you should go out and buy 5'000 rounds of it. Then shoot at least 2'000 rounds to get proficient with shooting that gun / bullet. After that shoot a full magazine once every two weeks to stay proficient.
Click to expand...

Great advice, but almost nobody is going to do it.
The people who are most likely to need to display or use a gun in self-defense are the least likely to have the time, interest, and money to shoot that much.
 
UNCLE PAULY said:
The instructor at my range says once you find a defense load that works well in your carry gun you should go out and buy 5'000 rounds of it. Then shoot at least 2'000 rounds to get proficient with shooting that gun / bullet. After that shoot a full magazine once every two weeks to stay proficient.
Click to expand...

The pocket gun I carry every day has only been fired once in the last 8 or 10 months. The last time I fired it 4 months ago I killed a rat the cat chased out of the garage. Range was about 30 inches.
I think I put a couple of magazines thru it in the Fall of 2021.
But I should say that I have had the gun for 7 years or so and shot it a couple of hundred times right after I bought it.
Have never had a jam and it is amazingly accurate. What I call rabbit hunting accurate.
It is a Taurus PT-22. In .22LR.
 
Goudy686 said:
This aged well after the mall shooting. Anyone who only practices at average defense ranges is a fool. You should practice at as many different ranges as you can within reason.
Click to expand...

The “ within reason “ is the problem.
Most people are not able to do that for a variety of reasons.
 
.357 Magnum FMJ is one of the worst possible choices for defensive carry.
Too much over-penetration; too much muzzle blast for indoors.
Ever fired a .357 load without GOOD hearing protection in an enclosed space?
I have, and will never do so willingly again.

All human problems that can be solved with handguns can be handled with non-FMJ bullets in non-magnum loads.
Forget about one-shot stop ratings. Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice, and that tends to even out the differences in effectiveness between calibers and loads.
 
Pardon my ignorance. I see a lot of conversation about the advantages/benefits of carrying FMJ or Hollow points for personal defense. What is the disadvantage or no benefit for using semi wad or full wad? It would seem that you would want the full impact to STOP an attack. It would seem that a full wad or semi wad would be just as effective (but not as effective as a .45ACP which has lots of mass and stopping energy). Just asking ...
 
One of the major reasons not to use reloaded ammunition (remanufactured by someone like Black Hills doesn't count) has to do with gunshot residue testing. Should you be involved in a shooting where they actually do the CSI thing and test for gunshot residue to determine the distance the shooting took place, the ammunition used will be factory ammo of the brand your cases are.

Maybe 20 years ago in southwest Virginia there was a case where the shooter stated the shooting was at/near contact distance. State crime lab testing indicated this wasn't the case, he was convicted. Records from Federal indicated that the test ammo wasn't from the same lot as that used in the shooting, the powder was different and therefore the test was invalid. Case overturned on appeal and eventually he was acquitted.

The major ammo companies keep exemplar samples from each lot of each variety of ammo exactly for this purpose. Their records are that of an independent third party and court acceptable.

BTW, this is also one of several reasons you should avoid-if possible-any estimate of the distance any attacker was from you.

For post92, no particular advantage either way, but most full wadcutters are low velocity target rounds. There are some hard cast full wadcutter factory loads available. Where you put the bullet is far more important than it's shape, design or diameter.
 
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Load whatever you have - It really does not matter if you shoot 'em in the head.

Side note:
Think about what you want to carry for self defence!

If you live in a state which has a true winter a 22LR, 22Mag & 25acp most likely will not penetrate heavy winter clothing.

Again, shoot 'em in the head.
 
smoothshooter said:
The pocket gun I carry every day has only been fired once in the last 8 or 10 months. The last time I fired it 4 months ago I killed a rat the cat chased out of the garage. Range was about 30 inches.
I think I put a couple of magazines thru it in the Fall of 2021.
But I should say that I have had the gun for 7 years or so and shot it a couple of hundred times right after I bought it.
Have never had a jam and it is amazingly accurate. What I call rabbit hunting accurate.
It is a Taurus PT-22. In .22LR.
Click to expand...
I prefer the Beretta 21A it was copied from over the Taurus. Nothing against Taurus (I have several) I just like the exposed hammer and single action option.
But I prefer the Iver Johnson PT-22 over either of them.
Just my personal preferences, YMMV.
 
My choice for carry in 38 special and 44 special are hard cast full wadcutters.

45 ACP 230 grain FMJ.

I'm more concerned I get enough penetration. I'm just not confident in fragile bullets.
 
I like your choices, zzclancy. Except I like 200gr bullets in .45.

I like Sig Elite Performance V-Crown JHP in my Sig Sauer C3. With a name that long, it has to be great stuff.

I'd get FPFMJ if they made it. I don't think hollowpoints have any value in pistols, in fact, they may hurt by preventing adequate penetration. Great stuff in rifles, but it doesn't translate to pistol velocities.

Anyhow, the V-Crown ammo in the C3 just feels great! Just the right amount of BOOM! but still controllable.
 
I like your choices, zzclancy. Except I like 200gr bullets in .45.

I like Sig Elite Performance V-Crown JHP in my Sig Sauer C3. With a name that long, it has to be great stuff.

I'd get FPFMJ if they made it. I don't think hollowpoints have any value in pistols, in fact, they may hurt by preventing adequate penetration. Great stuff in rifles, but it doesn't translate to pistol velocities.

Anyhow, the V-Crown ammo in the C3 just feels great! Just the right amount of BOOM! but still controllable.
 
ironhead7544 said:
With any fmj bullet you will have to watch your background. It is very likely they will go through.
Click to expand...

Discussions about ammo effectiveness are always interesting to me. I've never shot a living creature, but in my 30 career I literally responded to more shootings than I can remember. I never saw a rifle or shotgun wound, but I've seen people shot with almost every handgun round imaginable.

The post above reminded me a call we had for a shooting at a gas station. The victim was standing in front of the passenger's door of a taxicab. There was a series of bullet holes from front to back along the right side of the cab, and three wounds in the victim, on the left, center, and right of his abdomen at the waist. There were corresponding exit wounds on his back...I remember thinking he'd obviously been hit by FMJ rounds.

Then there was the time we had an eighteen year old shot in the right side of his abdomen, between the waist and his ribcage. He ran for three blocks before collapsing. In the ER, the fluoroscope showed the unmistakable shape of a 230 grain FMJ .45 ACP...in his groin. Instead of exiting, the bullet had been deflected downward.

The one indelible lesson I learned from responding to those calls is that I don't ever want to be shot with ANYTHING! Once a bullet enters your body, all bets are off...
 
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