FMJ vs Hollow points for carry

BabaBlueJay

BabaBlueJay

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I am sure the overwhelming majority will say hollow points but here goes… I shoot around 1,000 rounds of S&B FMJ in a given year with around 200-250 of different high end hollow points. I have yet to find a hollow point round that I feel as comfortable with as my S&B FMJ. With the S&B I can consistently hit 3 inch targets at 30+ yards and I am automatic with it defense distances of less than 10 feet. I am trying to find a golden bullet to match the comfort and accuracy of my 158 grain S&B FMJ but have yet to find it. Testing some buffalo bore short barrel low flash low recoil stuff this weekend, but if that fails I’m still on the hunt.

I guess the essential questions are…

1. Is FMJ really that much worse for carry than hollow points?
2. If you do carry hollow points how much and how often do you practice with your hollow point ammo?
3. Does anyone have experience in actual defensive shooting incidents with either type of ammo, good or bad.

Thanks in advance!
 
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To me, accuracy (+/_ an inch at 30+yards) isn't really a consideration in CC. In most instances you won't be shooting anyone 30 yards away or you'll probably find yourself in jail.

You don't mention what caliber you shoot. HP's are a consideration due to expansion (soft tissue damage) and the threat of over penetration from a FMJ.
You must know your gun though. Some semi-auto pistols are finicky with HP's. Also, depending on the bullet type, low velocity rounds may negate the effectiveness of the HP design while, at the same time, reduce the potential for over penetration.
 
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For functional reliability and target penetration (even through bone) it's hard to beat a FMJ. I prefer FMJ FP in 40 S&W and 45 ACP. I carried REMINGTON UMC 40 S&W 180 GRAIN FULL METAL JACKET - L40SW3 on SRT missions the entire time I served on a SRT; it's still my carry round when I carry a 40. I use WINCHESTER RED45 230 GRAIN FMJ FP in my EDC.

In 357 I use American Eagle 158 grain JSP for penetration; in +P 38 Special, I use Remington 158 grain LHP knowing that penetration is limited.

On rare occasions in which I carried while OCONUS contracting, we were only allowed 9mm FMJ - I had zero confidence in the round.
 
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I always use hollow points in my 9mm carry and home defense guns. But judging by the bullet weights you listed I am guessing you are using a 38 Special. With 38 you often have to choose between a round nose bullet that penetrates well but has no expansion or a hollow point that expands but has marginal penetration. Particularly if you are not using +P.

If I was relying on a 38 I would go with a +P hollow point. But the difference in effectiveness is smaller than with calibers that over penetrate with FMJ like 9mm, 40 or 357. If you are comfortable with and trust the S&B I would keep using it.

I practice with FMJ but shoot and replace my carry ammo about once a year. For self defense being able to quickly group shots into an 8 inch group at 10 yards is more important than being able to slowly shoot a 3 inch group at 25 yards. So I don't place as much emphasis on accuracy with self defense guns as many and the difference between my FMJ practice rounds and HP carry rounds is negligible. I worry about accuracy mostly with target/range guns.

I remember reading about statistics from shootings comparing HP and FMJ 9mm and recall the difference was much less than I expected. The statistic I care about much is how often a certain caliber fails to stop an attacker. I want to say the the HP rounds failed about 12% of the time and FMJ failed about 18% of the time but cannot find the page I was looking at and do not trust my memory of those statistics. But even if those numbers are correct I think the difference would be less with standard pressure 38 Special.
 
Suggest you try shooting IDPA to introduce (simulated) stress into your shooting, with a variety of targets at different distances and a timer running. The large "bullseye", or zero down area of the target takes the emphasis off measuring "groups" and adds emphasis and urgency. Often the first good hit wins a real gunfight.
The power factor required of IPDA stop the practice of using light loads, discourage careful single action revolver shooting, while the scoring encourages drawing quickly and getting good center mass hits. IMHO, gun handling improves considerably.
 
What you want in carry ammo is :
Carry ammo that is 100% reliable in feeding , chambering , fireing and ejection .
Carry ammo you can hit with .
Carry ammo you have confidence that it will function in a bad situation .
Don't loose any sleep if that ammo is not a hollow point.

I can tell you from experience ... you don't want a jam in a fight ...
A hit with a FMJ beats not hitting with a HP .

At close range handgun distances a hollow point will not win or loose the day ... staying in the fight and making solid accurate hits will keep you alive .

Gary
 
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The instructor at my range says once you find a defense load that works well in your carry gun you should go out and buy 5'000 rounds of it. Then shoot at least 2'000 rounds to get proficient with shooting that gun / bullet. After that shoot a full magazine once every two weeks to stay proficient.
 
Having never been in a gunfight I have no personal experience. However, I personally know 22 people who have been shot, not counting suicides, and only 2 have died or suffered any serious injuries. Three were shot with 44 magnums and lived. However, I have been around literally hundreds of big game animals that were shot. Shot several big game animals with 45 ACP'S and 357's and can affirm that there is little reaction when shot. And all those shot with hollow points. Can only imagine what little terminal effect FMJ's would inflict. Spinal and brain hits were the only sure stop them right there that I ever got with a handgun on anything larger than a javlina.
 
With the S&B I can consistently hit 3 inch targets at 30+ yards and I am automatic with it defense distances of less than 10 feet.
Click to expand...
I've never been in a gunfight.

I would have to think accuracy at this range is equal. I suspect I can load a mag of 9mm up with S&B, Tula steel, Federal aluminum, Gold Dot HP, Federal 9BP, Yavex (very hot Turkish 124 fmj), and the gun would group just fine.

The issue is hollowpoint is, have you shot enough of your preferred brand to be comfortable it will feed and not jam?
The issue with fmj is, there's a better chance that it just punches through, risking a person behind the target. And maybe not incapacitating as much due to a smaller clean travel channel.

At the end of the day, the .32acp fmj that runs, is better than the 45 acp jhp that is jammed. That'd be my opinion.
 
UNCLE PAULY said:
The instructor at my range says once you find a defense load that works well in your carry gun you should go out and buy 5'000 rounds of it. Then shoot at least 2'000 rounds to get proficient with shooting that gun / bullet. After that shoot a full magazine once every two weeks to stay proficient.
Click to expand...

That's a pretty big commitment (financially and time-wise) for your average handgun owner. I'd hazard a guess that only around 5% or less shoot 5000 of any type of round through a handgun in their lifetime.
 
Based on the OP mention of 158 and short barrel, I'm thinking they are talking about a snubby revolver. If so all the talk of feeding and reliability is out the window. I know for that answer many folks believe in the full-power wadcutter or a SWC at least, based on the make a bigger hole and soft lead tends to deform and expand theory. I don't think the full round nose have a particularly good track record, particularly the jacketed variety.
 
Since you say you are trying BB 158 gr Short Barrel Low Recoil I assume you have a snub .357 or .38 S&W Spl. SB formulations use less faster burning powder so out of longer barrels they underperform.

My carry is a SB .357 and I use Gold Dot Short Barrels.

But at Special speeds out of 1 5/8", HPs of "normal weights" won't reliably expand. 85--90 gr do, but you trade away too much weight and penetration IMHO.

Square shoulders do more damage than round noses. So:

.38 S&W Spl full power: 158 gr Keith SWC
.38 S&W Spl reduced power: 148 gr Wadcutter


An attorney told me "NEVER CARRY YOUR OWN HANDLOADS" otherwise heavy slow "pin" loads might be considered, 200--230 gr in .38 S&W Spl.

If I couldn't use a HP in .357 I'd carry the heaviest .357 BB SOFT CAST Keith SWC available.

My $0.02
 
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Penetration of the FMJ 9mm and 45ACP, in the FBI heavy clothing tests, exceed 28 inches. The .357 JSP comes in at 31 inches. The +.38 spl 125 gr JSP 27.3 inches. The .380 100 gr FMJ 24.9 inches.

I don't have and can't find data on the .38 and .357 FMJ but I am guessing that they will be comparable, and in the 357 much more.

If you go to the lucky gunner lab you will see that even many high end JHP are over penetrating well past the FBI's recommended 18".

Over penetration is a real thing and IMO renders FMJ as a no-go for self defense.

In today's market there are many high quality defensive rounds, in most all calibers, that meet the minimum requirements set by the FBI.

So, the data is there, FMJ NO, hollowpoints yes.
 
Never been in a gunfight, but I try to stay proficient just in case.

I started reloading FMJ for my range ammo about a year and a half ago. I've since switched to reloading JHP for both EDC and practice ammo.

I'm not a bullseye shooter but I can get 1 Minute of Bad-Guy results consistantly.
 
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UNCLE PAULY said:
The instructor at my range says once you find a defense load that works well in your carry gun you should go out and buy 5'000 rounds of it. Then shoot at least 2'000 rounds to get proficient with shooting that gun / bullet. After that shoot a full magazine once every two weeks to stay proficient.
Click to expand...

Let me guess that he just happens to sell that kind of ammunition at his store or shooting range or classes.
 
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