Appropriate Response To Being Threatened With A Taser

[Smoke]

Before I tell this story I want to clarify two points.

First, the person I’m writing about is a licensed security officer who was responding to a report of a trespasser on client property. I won’t say he had a “duty” to respond like the police would but it was part of his job description and long story short he had to be there.

Second client policy is that for trespassers security is not allowed to call the police unless the trespasser is causing a disturbance or refusing to leave. So my coworker didn’t really have the option of letting the police handle it.

What happened, My coworker arrives in the area where the trespasser was last seen and goes looking, he finds the guy (homeless vagrant) walking around in a storage yard owned by the client and approaches to ask him to leave.

As he approaches the homeless guy threatens him with a taser. The coworker states he put his hand on the butt of his gun and told the trespasser it (trying to tase him) would be the stupidest thing he ever did. At that point the trespasser put the taser away (co worker isn’t a cop and has no legal authority to confiscate the taser) and left.

Any time there is a deadly force incident the company requires the officer to justify his actions, coworker’s justification was that while a taser is generally considered non lethal, if tased he would be defenseless and unable to stop the guy from either taking his gun or doing further injury to him and that once the taser was deployed there wouldn’t be anything to stop the trespasser from continuing to shock him.

The company agreed with his assessment and closed the matter.

I agree with his assessment as well and would absolutely regard a taser as a deadly threat.

So, my question is not necessarily what would you have done in this situation but would you also regard a taser as a deadly threat

[dougb1946]

Tasers have caused deaths.

[The Big D]

Quick research shows tasers are not illegal, per se, in Colorado. However, it is a criminal offense to use one whilst committing a (another) crime. Presuming trespassing is illegal in CO, I believe your coworker should have notified the police.

That said, his actions were otherwise appropriate.

Be safe.

[SgtLumpy]

With all due respect, Smoke...

The more and more I read about the security company you work for, the more and more I think they are hanging you guys out to dry to protect themselves.

"Not allowed to call the police". Um, I'm "allowed" to call the police any time I feel the need. What possible rationale could your company have for having such a rule that makes any kind of sense in terms of safety for you and your co-workers.

And this nonsense about "Placed hand on gun butt" and then uttered some old west cowboy phrase...that's just Dumb with a capital D. Responding to a taser threat with a line from a Clint Eastwood movie is just plain not good security work. And it all appears to be coming from some kind of company policy about escalating force (and increasing the company liability).

One of you guys is going to get hurt or killed some day because you're afraid of violating some company policy. Or you're going to respond appropriately and the company will respond with "He violated policy, he's fired, we won't defend him".


Sgt Lumpy

[25elk]

Notifying the police was against company policy and would most likely have cost him his job. I believe he did exactly what was required and the client agreed. All's well that ends well. A taser has been lethal in a number of documented cases and I certainly wouldn't want to find out if it would be lethal on me.

[Ohsheepdog]

Good call on your friend's part & his company's decision. Are you sure it was a Taser and not a Stun gun? Tasers fire probes with wires that conduct electricity to completely disable someone while it's fired, and stun guns require the user to touch someone to have an effect and only cause localized pain. Most states differentiate between the two.

Sent from somewhere between the Ohio territory and the neutral zone.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by The Big D

I believe your coworker should have notified the police.

Not an option

Originally Posted by Smoke

Second client policy is that for trespassers security is not allowed to call the police unless the trespasser is causing a disturbance or refusing to leave. So my coworker didn’t really have the option of letting the police handle it.

[ColbyBruce]

Once a person has been disabled, they are good as dead, so a so-called non-lethal device like a taser is indeed deadly. Other than your co-workers choice of words, I think his overall response was fine. Nobody got hurt, and homeless vagrants probably get assaulted often so that guy might have been in fear himself, though he was trespassing. As stated above, anybody has the right to call the local LE agency. Incidents should be reported A.S.A.P., for ones own protection.

If criminal behavior was more dangerous to the criminal, perhaps there would be less of it and fewer criminals.

[Hock]

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

And this nonsense about "Placed hand on gun butt" and then uttered some old west cowboy phrase...that's just Dumb with a capital D. Responding to a taser threat with a line from a Clint Eastwood movie is just plain not good security work. And it all appears to be coming from some kind of company policy about escalating force (and increasing the company liability).

SgtLumpy,

This is the only thing you said that I disagree with. So what if he used a "movie line" while placing his hand on his firearm. He was communicating but verbally and visually that he had intention on using deadly force if the trespasser continued to aggressively approach him with the taser. I firmly believe and support that you do anything reasonable to end a confrontation before it escalates to any use of force. That can be down through logical reasoning, emotional reasoning, or intimidation. I prefer the first two but a combination of any two or even all three can keep you out of a fight before it physically harmful. The person Smoke is talking about used logical reason by using his words and intimidation by placing his hand on his weapon. I think he did a fantastic and I believe anytime you can end a potentially dangerous situation without physical harm you have done a fantastic job.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

With all due respect, Smoke...

The more and more I read about the security company you work for, the more and more I think they are hanging you guys out to dry to protect themselves.

You aren't telling me anything I don't already know.

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

"Not allowed to call the police". Um, I'm "allowed" to call the police any time I feel the need. What possible rationale could your company have for having such a rule that makes any kind of sense in terms of safety for you and your co-workers.

Not company policy client policy and it only applies to tresspassers. If there were another situation say a client building were broken into or someone stole copper from a clent facilty then of course we'd call the police but they don't want us calling the cops every time we deal with a random tresspasser

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

And this nonsense about "Placed hand on gun butt" and then uttered some old west cowboy phrase...that's just Dumb with a capital D. Responding to a taser threat with a line from a Clint Eastwood movie is just plain not good security work.

I'm not evaluating his response ,as such, I'm just telling you factually what he did. I wouldn't have said that but he did.

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

One of you guys is going to get hurt or killed some day because you're afraid of violating some company policy. Or you're going to respond appropriately and the company will respond with "He violated policy, he's fired, we won't defend him".


Sgt Lumpy

Again you're not telling me anything I don't know.

Now you know why I have no problem with the fact that my company stuck me on a remote post out on the East edge of town where I can go weeks with out seeing a client employee much less a client customer or tresspasser or anything like that.

Our client requires that all visitors be logged in and out, the sheet for doing so has fifteen spaces, we have some sites that go through three or four of those sheets every day. I go through maybe one a month and sometime only then because I close it out at the end of every month

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Ohsheepdog

Are you sure it was a Taser and not a Stun gun? Tasers fire probes with wires that conduct electricity to completely disable someone while it's fired, and stun guns require the user to touch someone to have an effect and only cause localized pain. Most states differentiate between the two.

Incident report said taser so I said taser

[Smoke]

Yes I am aware that it sucks, I am also aware that I’m not going to get a better security gig in Colorado Springs than the one I have now.

I’m on a city contract so I get 50% above scale, the work is steady and should my employer ever lose this contract the only thing that will change in my world is the uniform I wear to work and even that will probably be only the patches on the uniform.

Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves

[ColbyBruce]

"Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves"

These words are going to take up a lot of space on a headstone, more than a name, DOB, DOD. Call the law.

[jimmyj]

Originally Posted by Smoke

Yes I am aware that it sucks, I am also aware that I’m not going to get a better security gig in Colorado Springs than the one I have now.

I’m on a city contract so I get 50% above scale, the work is steady and should my employer ever lose this contract the only thing that will change in my world is the uniform I wear to work and even that will probably be only the patches on the uniform.

Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves

The shoulder patches reminds me of a agency I worked for that went though Police Chiefs quite often. Every new Chief had to have his own designed shoulder patch for the "Troops". I often wondered if the money spent for different shoulder patches could been put to better use ?

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by jimmyj

The shoulder patches reminds me of a agency I worked for that went though Police Chiefs quite often. Every new Chief had to have his own designed shoulder patch for the "Troops". I often wondered if the money spent for different shoulder patches could been put to better use ?

The city of Colorado Springs has specific guidelines for security uniforms.

They can’t be the same color as CSPD.

They have to say “Private Security” plainly visible on them.

They must to have the company name plainly visible on them.

And the word “Police” cannot appear in any context on the uniform. So no “Special police” patches.

You also have to be able to read the words Private Security on our vehicles (which can not be Crown Vics) from 60 feet

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by ColbyBruce

"Bottom line I show up on time do what they tell me to do and don't make waves"

These words are going to take up a lot of space on a headstone, more than a name, DOB, DOD. Call the law.

First Picture is where I work second is the biggest threat I've run into in 4 years out there ETA the second picture is a litter of fox kits

[millisec]

Taser, stun gun whatever... a significant number of people have been killed by them (aside from the whole aspect of being incapacitated if not dead). I have had some heart issues in my time and suspect a taser would probably kill me. Likewise if someone did that to me I would view it as a deadly weapon, fear for my life and take appropriate action. That's me speaking as a citizen only constrained by law and not by any employer policies.

[Maze 686]

Tasers are not, "not lethal " . They are, "less lethal ".
Any time you are armed know that everytime less lethal instruments are used is not justification to use deadly force to engage the threat.

You need to take into consideration if backup officers can help, is there threats of death, can you create distance or a barrier to protect yourself. One thing is to use a vehicle to protect yourself when you first make contact.
Everybody went home safe, learn from it.

[islamoradamark]

not call the police, u were threatened with a weapon and he was trespassing. OH its ok he was just smoking to much weed and got lost in COLorado

[SgtLumpy]

Take all of the employment constraints out of it. Take the pvt security component out of it. Then ask yourself -

What would I/should I do when threatened by a person with a taser.

I'll start with discounting the two extremes -
- Shoot him
- Stand there facing him, issuing verbal "movie line" threats

Both of those are the wrong approach in any self defense doctrine I can think of.

MOVE. Get out of range of the threat. That should always be the first move.

Then fill in the intermediate steps with whatever you feel is appropriate.


Now, if you care to, consider the pvt security/client component. There should never be a "company rule" that violates my personal safety, common sense or the commonly held doctrines of self defense. An employer should not be asking me to "take a bullet" (or get tazed etc) or doing anything else that clearly violates my personal safety, simply for their liability or public image reasons. If you don't want me to call the police for tresspassers, that's fine. If you don't want me to call the police for tresspassers who threathen me with a taser, that's not fine. If you don't want me to present my weapon when threatened with a taser, that's not fine.


Sgt Lumpy

[sellersm]

Smoke: those are some cute, little threats!!

I think the grey area is the 'committing a crime' while possessing a taser... My question would be: how did he know that this guy had NOT committed a crime?

If everyone went home safe and the company's happy, well, who's to say anything else?

We all have to individually decide how much our lives are worth as compared to "following company policy".

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by islamoradamark

not call the police, u were threatened with a weapon and he was trespassing. OH its ok he was just smoking to much weed and got lost in COLorado

I wasn't threatened with anything I wasn't even in the same zipcode when it happened.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

Now, if you care to, consider the pvt security/client component. There should never be a "company rule" that violates my personal safety, common sense or the commonly held doctrines of self defense. An employer should not be asking me to "take a bullet" (or get tazed etc) or doing anything else that clearly violates my personal safety, simply for their liability or public image reasons. If you don't want me to call the police for tresspassers, that's fine. If you don't want me to call the police for tresspassers who threathen me with a taser, that's not fine. If you don't want me to present my weapon when threatened with a taser, that's not fine.


Sgt Lumpy

Let's take the not calling the police part off the table until I can reread the report. I'm pretty sure he didn't call the cops and I know we aren't supposed to for trespassers unless they refuse to leave but he may have ended up calling the cops because of the threat.

As for not presenting the handgun, in Colorado putting your hand on it is legally the same thing so if he was justified in the one he would have been justified in the other. So if he didn't present it was his choice.

I have been doing this long enough to know when I'm going to be writing a report so I think about what I'm saying. I would have put my hand on the gun and said "Sir I need you to put down that taser." and then progressed from there.

Also given a choice I wouldn't have called the cops if the guy left without doing anything else. who the Hell wants to do all that paper work ?

[walkin' trails]

A taser or a stun gun? As I understand it, a taser is capable of firing darts to project it's range while a stun gun requires the person wielding it to close with and make contact with the threat or victim. Distance and obsticles can be used to avoid being harmed.


Now, in regard to a threat percieved by your coworker, be familiar with your state's requirements for the lawful use of deadly force in self defense. Most are going to include something such as "a reasonable person fearing eminent threat of death or serious physical injury." A reasonable person who is lawfully where they're supposed to be and being threatened by someone who us not who is carrying a taser that can fire darts that can cause temporary incapacitation long enough for the person who Is threatening the harm to obtain the reasonable person's firearm or gain some other advantage over the reasonable person so as to inflict death or great harm is something to be considered. So is a stun gun when conditions prevent the reasonable person from getting out of range. I can't armchair as to what course of action a reasonable person should take, so that is why I say it us important to know your state's statutes for self defense. Furthermore you must be able to articulate what you did.

I am glad your friend did not have to use deadly force. He should consider this a learning experience and take stock of his skill level, tactics, and the law. Be safe.

[sipowicz]

I would assume the appropriate response would be one of shock.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by walkin' trails

A taser or a stun gun? As I understand it, a taser is capable of firing darts to project it's range while a stun gun requires the person wielding it to close with and make contact with the threat or victim. Distance and obsticles can be used to avoid being harmed.

I wasn't there, the report specified taser So I will take it at its word

[Ranger514]

The report doesn't mention the specific manner in which the trespasser threatened the guard. If he had Taser in hand and pointed, the guard was way behind the power curve in his reaction. At close range, the guard would very likely have been tased before he could draw his handgun.

Taser models and cartridges vary in their effective range. Most handgun style Tasers have a 20' to 25' range. Like Walkin' Trails said, distance, obstacles, and weather factors can be used to lessen their threat. Create distance and use cover. If an assailant pursues you with intent to attack using a Taser, the threat would justify a lethal force response. I would have little difficulty articulating my fear of serious bodily harm or death in that situation.

Some Taser models sold to the public have a 30 second timed charge. They are meant to be deployed and then dropped at the scene to allow the intended victim ample time to escape the incapacitated BG. Consider what a BG could do to you if he had one of those Tasers and 30 seconds to inflict damage while you were helpless to defend yourself.

[BC38]

Originally Posted by Smoke

...client policy is that for trespassers security is not allowed to call the police unless the trespasser is causing a disturbance or refusing to leave... ...As he approaches the homeless guy threatens him with a taser...

How is threatening the guard with a taser NOT a case of "refusing to leave"?

If the client agreed that the taser justified the use of deadly, how could they not agree with a decision to call the police?

The first rule of armed self defense is avoid using your gun if you can, right? So, as soon as the guy produced the taser I would have retreated (if safe to do so) and called the police.

If retreat wasn't an option I'd have drawn down on him and if the taser didn't hit the floor pretty much immediately, I'd have put a hole in him.

Either way my next move would still be to call the police. If they wanted to say I violated policy, I'd make the argument that he refused to leave and we'd go to court if that's what it took.

[jlrhiner]

Every time I'm confronted by hostile vagrants with tasers I put my hand on my gun and say "Go ahead. Make my day!". Works every time.

[Hodgin]

At my age, and more importantly health condition, I would definitely consider it a deadly weapon. It probably wouldn't be good for my ICD. It'd be a closer call otherwise.

I probably say yes, especially if I were close to the person. I don't know the effective range of a taser but if inside it I would consider it a deadly weapon.

[Smoke]

I’m kind of frustrated that I can’t find the report in our database at work because there are some questions that I can’t answer without reading it again and some that aren’t answered in it. I will look today again and try to get more detail but I want to stress that this was just an example.

My question was more in some other situation if you were threatened by a Taser (and again I specify “Taser” because that’s what the report said) would you consider it to be a deadly threat?

I also want to point out that in the example above the guard initiated the encounter and I’m sure he did so at some distance where if the guy with the taser initiated the encounter I would think he’d try to get closer to you.

[Smoke]

Some folks have also asked why this was considered a deadly force incident. In Colorado if you so much as place your hand on your weapon or even verbally indicate that you are armed it is considered aggravated menacing unless it’s justified self defense. So in the incident I used in my example the guard would have been guilty of a felony except for the Taser. That’s why the company reviewed the incident.

One of the things that my employer stresses with the armed guards is that if you are in some minor confrontation at work (like a client employee forgot their ID card and is upset because you can’t just let them in) is to be very aware of your body language and don’t even put your hand near your gun (like how some people put their hands on their hips when they get upset) because the employee might consider it a threat.

[jlrhiner]

In all seriousness, yes. If confronted by someone threatening me with a Taser I would consider it a deadly threat. Once I'd been tasered, the aggressor has access to my CCW, wallet and whatever else I had.

Just recently, a dude playing the "Knockout Game" attempted to use a Taser on a man at a bus stop. The man felt the taser "click", but due to heavy clothes the effect was lessoned. He drew his CCW and shot the dude. After the dude was in the hospital, he admitted he had done this 7 or 8 times before.

[SgtLumpy]

Originally Posted by Smoke

... So in the incident I used in my example the guard would have been guilty of a felony except for the Taser. That’s why the company reviewed the incident.

Actually, he wouldn't "have been guilty" of anything until arrested, tried and found guilty. And of course, that's not an issue here because he's being threatened by a person committing what I suspect is a felony in Colorado (unlawful entry plus dangerous weapon threatening [taser]).

Sounds to me like this security company has had a bad history of hiring too many gung-ho employees that put the company at risk. So now they're over-emphasizing the "Don't touch your gun butt or you're guilty of a felony" stuff.

I spent just a little time on LexisNexis this morning trying to find that Colorado "touch your gun" law and didn't find it. If anyone knows the specific title:section, please post the reference so I can look at it in more detail.

I don't like this idea, Smoke, of your employer calling you on the carpet every time you touch your gun. We don't need to be pulling guns on employees who forgot their ID cards, of course. But I'd sure rather see them empower you to use common sense and human intelligence when reacting to things in the field instead of treating you like cannon fodder to keep their liability exposure reduced.


Sgt Lumpy

[SgtLumpy]

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

I spent just a little time on LexisNexis this morning trying to find that Colorado "touch your gun" law and didn't find it. If anyone knows the specific title:section, please post the reference so I can look at it in more detail.

Answering my own question -

I suppose "Menacing" CRS - 18-3-206 would apply to the "touch your gun" as well as something similar but verbal. A class 5 felony. -

(b)"By the person representing verbally or otherwise that he or she is armed with a deadly weapon."

All of which would, of course, clearly be an affirmative defense when confronted by an intruder with a taser. I haven't found specific case law declaring a taser a deadly weapon in CO, but there is CO case law declaring a BB gun a deadly weapon.

In any case, Smoke, get a job that treats you as an intelligent adult.


Sgt Lumpy

[ColbyBruce]

Looking at your photos, I have to wonder what a homeless vagrant was doing way out in the middle of nowhere? How did he get there?

[feralmerril]

A person would have to be stupid to charge a armed man with a taser when armed man has a pistol pointed at him. If that ever happened to me I would think you would be justified to shoot as such a fool no doubt once he tased you he will take your gun and probley shoot you and ultimately others. I believe a jury would believe that too. Would be the same if it was a knife instead of a taser. I never had similar done in 35 years as a guard.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by ColbyBruce

Looking at your photos, I have to wonder what a homeless vagrant was doing way out in the middle of nowhere? How did he get there?

Different facilty.

Having said that you would be surpried at how far homeless people travel a lot of them head south in the winter

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by SgtLumpy

In any case, Smoke, get a job that treats you as an intelligent adult.


Sgt Lumpy

I preffer keeping the job where they leave me the cow flops alone. Today makes 3 days this week that there is no one here but me and the foxes.

I understand what you're saying but I feel like I have pretty good gig for security most of the time I don't have to deal with the company politics, they don't want to drive all the way out here to check on me so the leave me (us ) alone. all the guys I supervise like it that way and we go don't draw attention to ourselves.

[feralmerril]

I read a few of the posts above after I posted. I would like to say, maybe legally a taser aint lethal but I would also think that most normal people would assume that if someone is nuts enough to charge a armed guard with a taser, we would also assume the nut is going to take the incapacitated guards gun when he is down and helpless. On my guard job I also had assignments far out in the desert working all night by myself guarding stuff. On those assignments I was in civilian cloths. It was a different world though as my outfit didnt want to be identified with what I was guarding plus indirectly the federal government paid my company to pay me.
I cant think of another business that could have more potential libel problems than owning a contract security company. I had a friend years ago that wanted me to start up one with him. I wouldnt touch it. Its one thing working inhouse security for a major defense plant that will back you than working for a small contract outfit. I have done both but did 35 years for my company with no legal problems for anything I got involved in. For people that dont know what I mean, there are two types of guard or security jobs. "In house and contract". "In house" is guards that are paid directly by the company that they guard like Ford, Boeing, or whatever. Contract security is a guard company that will send you to everything from a topless bar to maybe stores or whatever. In my experience if your going to be a guard, go with a large company with in house security. They typically pay the same benifits, holidays, retirement, vacations, 401K`s etc as their regular employees. I doubt any contract outfit can began to match In House.

[Chillock]

Originally Posted by Smoke

My question was more in some other situation if you were threatened by a Taser (and again I specify “Taser” because that’s what the report said) would you consider it to be a deadly threat?

I also want to point out that in the example above the guard initiated the encounter and I’m sure he did so at some distance where if the guy with the taser initiated the encounter I would think he’d try to get closer to you.

Smoke, I see in your sig. that you are a former EMT. I don't know what you have seen or not seen, but I have seen the results of tasers.

A taser drawn, is a lethal or deadly threat. I have seen the worst results 2 times. Does death occur every time? No. I have seen a guy paralyzed for life because of the area he was hit/damaged nerves.

Our local Sheriff's department issues tazers. If a Deputy is to carry a tazer, not required, they have to be tazered to be able to carry. Before being tazered, the Deputies HAVE to have a physical, if approved by the doctor, the training commences. Not sure I would want to be tazered.

I would draw my weapon and demand the man drop the tazer. I would not give him but a second and I would fire. And no I do not believe in warning shots. My understanding, tazers legal in Washington, have a colored light (I've seen green and yellow) that comes on before the tazer actually releases the darts. If I saw those lights, my finger would be pulling the trigger.

[rvn6768]

You arm chair quarterbacks are great at giving advice. I wonder how many of you have ever been in a possible deadly force situation. the guy did a great job, everyone went home safe.

[WC145]

I absolutely do regard a threat with a Taser a threat of deadly force and do not take such threats lightly. I have been "tased" and can articulate that, while riding the lightning, and for several seconds immediately after, I was incapacitated and completely vulnerable to attack. Based on my training and experience, I would react to a threat with a Taser the same as I would a threat with a gun or knife - gun drawn, prepared to shoot if he doesn't comply with my commands.

[mc5aw]

Employment policy semantics aside, any time a potentially violent situation can be defused without out harm to those involved seems to be prudent. That said, my concern would be with the next confrontation the taser-carrying vagrant is involved in ... perhaps the first responder will not be as lucky, or perhaps an innocent civilian will be victimized.

[forrestinmathews]

After reading this thread I am amazed at how many people were so quick to armchair that they failed to read the original post. It's truly laughable.

Here's my contribution:
Smoke should have never fired his mini gun at the fairy godmother that was trying to take unauthorized pictures of and wave her wand menacingly at his badgers. It was against country club rules and he'll likely be barred for it. Instead he should have called the FBI and let them take care of it whilst consuming a Dr. Pepper inside his Superman phone booth. They all lived happily ever after.

[shouldazagged]

Originally Posted by forrestinmathews

After reading this thread I am amazed at how many people were so quick to armchair that they failed to read the original post. It's truly laughable.

Here's my contribution:
Smoke should have never fired his mini gun at the fairy godmother that was trying to take unauthorized pictures of and wave her wand menacingly at his badgers. It was against country club rules and he'll likely be barred for it. Instead he should have called the FBI and let them take care of it whilst consuming a Dr. Pepper inside his Superman phone booth. They all lived happily ever after.

OF COURSE! I see it all so clearly now! I've been such a fool!

[Kanewpadle]

Originally Posted by rvn6768

You arm chair quarterbacks are great at giving advice. I wonder how many of you have ever been in a possible deadly force situation. the guy did a great job, everyone went home safe.

Nice of you to add something useful to this discussion.

[rvn6768]

About as useful as you have.

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by forrestinmathews

After reading this thread I am amazed at how many people were so quick to armchair that they failed to read the original post. It's truly laughable.

Here's my contribution:
Smoke should have never fired his mini gun at the fairy godmother that was trying to take unauthorized pictures of and wave her wand menacingly at his badgers. It was against country club rules and he'll likely be barred for it. Instead he should have called the FBI and let them take care of it whilst consuming a Mountain Dew inside his Superman phone booth. They all lived happily ever after.

There fixed it for you

[Smoke]

Originally Posted by Kanewpadle

Nice of you to add something useful to this discussion.

8 posts in 2 years, all pretty much in the same vein. Not the hill I want to die on