Changing my edc gun to 22 LR (new info at the end of thread)

[PALADIN85020]

.22 LR can be a very lethal round if properly employed. From my studies, maximum penetration (desirable) is achieved with high speed solids rather than hollow points.

Jeff Cooper, who far exceeded my gun knowledge, once wrote that the best employment of a .22 is to shoot for the eye sockets. Hollow points to the body have worked, but don't usually don't penetrate very far into the vitals. "Stopping power" with a body hit is nil - but following Cooper's advice would be wise - a hit to an eyeball at close range would stop a fight.

John

 

[rwsmith]

Just carry one......

Just carry one with some cartridge capacity and give any perp a couple shots more.

 

[STORMINORMAN]

The fine tilt barrel Berettas (380acp, 32acp, 25acp & 22lr) are designed (in part) for those who have trouble racking the slide in automatic pistols... There is no 22lr tilt barrel (to my knowledge) in the 80-Series guns. The 32acp Tomcat is probably the best compromise (centerfire vs. rimfire, 32acp vs. 22lr) over the 25acp, IMHO, and I've gone with the Bobcat because mine just flat works with CCI MiniMags.

Just try to find one?

Cheers!

P.S. An 8-shot 22lr revolver pretty much takes the rimfire vs. centerfire "reliability question" to rest...

 

[Dvan34]

You are correct. The 22 LR is extremely fast and light. As a result it is probably one of the 'worst' or 'best' bullets to be hit with depending on which end of it you are. Due to the velocity it may bounce around various parts of the body, hitting a bone and veering around inside the body causing a great deal of damage to organs. LEOs are not particularly fond of it for that reason, particularly having to encounter one. Of course if we miss the target it can travel and ricochet a considerable distance and end up causing a lot of damage if it hits someone. The soft lead non-hp bullet can expand upon impact with a soft body. According to the information on the box they can travel 1 mile. As frequently stated, ' Carry what you are comfortable with'. I would not want choose to face one.

 

[gsn]

For self defense I have no issues with anyone choosing a snub .22, though a .22 wmr would be my choice.

It seems to be generally acknowledged that: the mere presentation of a handgun is effective in stopping most threats-that a revolver is more intimidating than a semi and that in the rare circumstances when one will have to fire it will be at very close ranges-head shots, including a follow up if needed could be delivered with surgical precision with a .22 lr.

The Mrs. will alternate between her .22 mag/.357 and 9mm LCR-her preference is the .22 mag which she is astoundingly accurate with. I don't give it a second thought when she leaves with this remarkable handgun. She chambers two shot shells, the balance are 40g, jhp-I can't imagine anyone continuing after just one snoot full of pepper, and I am confident that the aggressor will fall with one of the hp rds in the head.

Lightweight, Compact Ruger LCR 22 Magnum Pocket Revolver

Thankfully I did not know the real deal with Ruger when we bought the LCR's, and for that I am happy-they are that good.

 

[shamrocker]

my 2 cents

My Dad (long since gone) in his declining years kept downsizing his carry gun.
His strength and ability to handle the recoil just kept shrinking. When he finally got to the 22 I told him I would buy him anything else he wanted to carry or give him any one of mine. His response was "Do you want to stand in front of it?" Uh, no Dad, carry what you want.
This from a man who spent 2+ years island hopping in the south pacific in WWII, was shot, stabbed, was still having pieces of shrapnel coming up through his skin years later, taken prisoner (that lasted one day, he killed his guards and took there guns and ran into the jungle. He always told me "a .45 up close stops everything" and he knew as he shot people with every round uncle sam provided. He had no problem with the .22 He never felt under gunned, matter of fact he didn't care what the round was, he knew he could make any of them do what he needed.
He pounded into us as we grew up.......if you need to shoot, keep shooting till it runs dry, and make em count.
I congratulate you on the efforts to become proficient with your carry gun, that's the bottom line.

 

[richardw]

richardw, I'm going to approach your problem differently from everyone else. Instead of suggesting a change of caliber, I'm going to suggest a change in statins. I am 73, and a year ago, I was in the same situation you are in. I'd developed lots of pain in my shoulders which spread to my wrists and hands. I had to install an Apex kit in my M&P 40 so I could pull the trigger. I could barely lift my range bag. My Harvard med school trained hand doctor said he'd never seen a case like mine, and wasn't sure what was wrong. I didn't fit into any traditional arthritis category.

Subsequently, my primary care physician's nurse practitioner hypothesized I was having a reaction to atorvastatin (generic Lipitor), and told me to stop taking it. I told her I'd been taking 40 mg per day for 15 years without a single side effect. She said give it a try, so I did. I stated feeling better after a week, and after a month, all of my shoulder pain and 90% of my wrist and hand pain were gone. My cardiologist then prescribed a low dose (10 mg) of rosuvastatin (generic Crestor), which has controlled my cholesterol as well as the atorvastatin did, with no side effects.

As a result, I can now shoot what I want. Today, I went to the range and fired 150 rounds of .45, and 100 rounds of .40 with no problems. If your situation is anything like mine, you might want to check your statin to see if it might be the culprit. However, if you are one of the 1% of the people in our age group who is not taking a statin, good for you, and... never mind!

I have never been on statins. My doc is always amazed at my bloodwork. I have amazing numbers in both types of cholesterol. Both the good and bad kind are so in my favor that he is continually amazed. Some of us get lucky.

 

[richardw]

T

I carry an SR22 most of the year loaded with Stingers. plus 1 extra mag.

I'm 74 and no physical problems shooting yet.

After much reserch I narrowed my gun choise down to the SR22 and the M&P 22 Compact. I rented both at my LGS range. They were both great, but the M&P just felt better in the hand. Walked off the range and bought one.

Prior to that I had spent a lot of hours researching ammo. CCI came out a reliable winner. I was attracted to Stinger because of its velocity to weight relation. But further research showed that it fails to expand from a handgun because the velociity from a handgun is substantially less than from a rifle, which is what is used to set velocity ratings. Everything I found online pointed to CCI Mini Mag HP as the best choice.

At brassfetcher.com there is a comprehensive test of 22 HP expansion. Mini Mag was second best. Winchester Super x was first but I passed it bybbecause other reviews indicated that Winchester rimfire was undependable and CCI was dependable.

 

[silversnake]

After much reserch I narrowed my gun choise down to the SR22 and the M&P 22 Compact. I rented both at my LGS range. They were both great, but the M&P just felt better in the hand. Walked off the range and bought one.

Prior to that I had spent a lot of hours researching ammo. CCI came out a reliable winner. I was attracted to Stinger because of its velocity to weight relation. But further research showed that it fails to expand from a handgun because the velociity from a handgun is substantially less than from a rifle, which is what is used to set velocity ratings. Everything I found online pointed to CCI Mini Mag HP as the best choice.

At brassfetcher.com there is a comprehensive test of 22 HP expansion. Mini Mag was second best. Winchester Super x was first but I passed it bybbecause other reviews indicated that Winchester rimfire was undependable and CCI was dependable.

My first carry gun was also a .22 although I never put that kind of research into the gun or ammo, I just used CCI Blazers because they were cheap and reliable. The mini mags are probably a much better choice. If you shoot it well and you're comfortable with your choice then it sounds like you made the right decision for yourself.

 

[kff41]

Just remember to stop pulling the trigger when the threat has ended. And that will be determined by people at a later date. So 8 or 10 shots of 22 may land you in a world of problems and 1 or 2 will do the perp. in, but will take a while

 

[majortoo]

As an old (almost 78) Viet Nam vet with rotator cuff issues, I can empathize with the author. I heartily agree with the choice of what ever caliber one finds comfortable. That means you are more likely to hit the target! Also agree with regular practice. (Radical thought!) I can still work with a 9mm, but the old 1911 is putting too much stress on my old parts. Browning HP and H&K P7 are personal favorites. I do like my old S&W 22 kit gun; it is so accurate with this old man that I sometimes wonder about it! One should not disregard the Walther PPKS in .22LR, as it was the choice of Israeli Mossad ops for certain situations. I am sure that choice was not made lightly!

 

[ameridaddy]

richardw -
I'm with you in the age and arthritis department. I tried pocket revolvers, but they don't conceal as easily as a flat semi auto. I've gone from 1911 commander to a duty size nine to a S&W 638. I'm now down to a .380 Sig P238 because I can work the slide with my arthritic left hand. It's gotten so bad, all four of my left hand's PNP joints have gone solid and I can't close my hand or make a fist. I tried the 9mm P938, but its heavier buffer spring and magazine springs are now beyond my capability to manipulate reliably.
So I adapt and overcome, just like you have. The immortal words of Staff Sgt. James Monroe Uptagrafft ring in my ears still
"Men, you don't have to like it; you just have to do it."
Keep on truckin'!

 

[mfholmes]

I normally carry an M&P 40C because I like the assurance of the extra lead. But years ago when I was looking for something flatter to carry that still had some punch I settled on an old S&W 2214. Very nice little package in a 22 cal pistol. Then I checked it out with the Aguila Sniper Subsonic 22 round with the 60 grain lead. It cycled with no problems, and it's plenty accurate within 25'. I figured that 60 grain slug gave it a bit more authority, and it's still my go-to many times in light summer clothing. Great little pocket piece, and comfortable shooting.

 

[nuubee]

I read somewhere a long time ago, maybe by Bill Jordan, that more folks
have been killed with a 22 than any other caliber, If you don't count those
killed in wars.

I have a beat-up first edition of Bill Jordan's book on gunfighting, "No Second Place Winner" boxed up somewhere where I can't easily retrieve it, so I'm going to have to paraphrase. He advocated for a then non-existant gun for concealed carry; a snub-nose revolver chambered for .22 WMR. I was surprised when I first read that, but the man was knowledgeable in ways I never will be. I started out with a Glock model 27, which is being converted to a model 26. Being 61, the thought of a .22-caliber-something sounds appealing. As a previous poster wrote, growing old is not for sissies...

 

[silversnake]

I have a beat-up first edition of Bill Jordan's book on gunfiighting, "No Second Place Winner" boxed up somewhere where I can't easily retrieve it, so I'm going to have to paraphrase. He advocated for a then non-existant gun for concealed carry; a snub-nose revolver chambered for .22 WMR. I was surprised when I first read that, but the man was knowledgeable in ways I never will be. I started out with a Glock model 27, which is being converted to a model 26. Being 61, the thought of a .22-caliber-something sounds appealing. As a previous poster wrote, growing old is not for sissies...

I'm a huge fan of Bill Jordan and his book but I don't think .22 WMR has really lived up to his expectations, at least not in a snubby. Out of a 6" barrel, or a rifle sure, but in a 2" barrel the performance is hardly better than .22 LR. If I wanted a step up in power from .22 but little recoil I'd look into .32 S&W Long.

My source: BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results

 

[richardw]

Just remember to stop pulling the trigger when the threat has ended. And that will be determined by people at a later date. So 8 or 10 shots of 22 may land you in a world of problems and 1 or 2 will do the perp. in, but will take a while

I hear you. Right on! I went to the USMC school of one shot one kill. While I think that a few more rounds of 22 are needed over 22 my practice and goal is to neutralize the target with one shot. With a 22 that shot entires the eye socke and bites the brain.

 

[sniper007]

richardw: First, thank you for your service!!!

It's been an interesting thread, thanks for starting it. There has been a ton of great comments and advice covering almost everything I can think of to say, and I have little to add.

The only thing is when you talked about shooting in your garage and the ventilation, I thought about when I had a darkroom in my garage. Most people seem to put exhaust fans in their darkrooms, but I found some excellent advice in a magazine (this was in the days before the internet even existed) that said pushing air into the room was better because an exhaust fan draws dust from every nook and cranny while removing the chemical fumes, but pushing air in creates positive pressure and minimizes contamination while the fumes and dust in the air are forced out of whatever exit port you have or make.

Blowing air into a darkroom requires a good filter, but I don't see needing one for a garage shooting gallery. My garage has a vent high in the ceiling that lets air out, so a pusher fan works out very well. (I actually have a small swamp cooler to do the job.)

As another poster suggested having a fan directly behind you to blow the smoke towards the target, and it sounds like a good idea. It wouldn't have to be blowing hard to be effective. All things considered, I doubt you risk much in the way of lead poisoning, but why take the risk?

It sounds like you have things well in hand. I wish you all the best,

Harold

 

[Talldog]

I'm a huge fan of Bill Jordan and his book but I don't think .22 WMR has really lived up to his expectations, at least not in a snubby. Out of a 6" barrel, or a rifle sure, but in a 2" barrel the performance is hardly better than .22 LR. If I wanted a step up in power from .22 but little recoil I'd look into .32 S&W Long.

My source: BBTI - Ballistics by the Inch :: Results

I don't want to disrespect BBTI, but their .22 mag test was not their best work. They did not test any real short barrel guns (shortest was 4.625") and right on the test page they state that at the shortest barrel lengths they were not getting accurate results from their chronographs. You can find several ballistics tests on Youtube (including from ShootingTheBull) that contradict BBTI's results.

 

[gfors]

22LR was good enough for Mossad. I believe they carried Beretta 71's. The idea is to point the weapon at the center of mass, moving toward the BG, empty all 10 rounds into his thorax, if you miss, the risk of collateral damage is minimal. Very important consideration on an airplane or in a dense city.

 

[diegobxr]

Well, I'd rather take care of my joints and live without pain than continue to punish myself shooting a "powerful" round that most likely I'll never need. So I completely agree with your choice.

.22 LR is not a BB gun. It's a serious, deadly round. I really, really doubt that anyone of us can take one to the head and "shrug it off".

PS: Only change I'd make is going with ball ammo, not HP.

Be safe out there.