That's too bad, I have a half dozen each of HKS and/or Safariland loaders for J frames, K frames and for 686...was hoping to avoid the expense, if I purchase an already expensive revolver...maybe I won't. Due to some wheeling and dealing, and general thinning of the herd, I find myself without a .38 Special revolver, but lots of loaded rounds and plenty of casings, primers, bullets and powder. Maybe its time for that birthyear S&W Victory model I have been thinking about for the last ten or so years. Thanks for the info.