• Update – 12:30 PM EST
    Attachments are now working, and all members can once again upload files.
    We are currently testing URL redirects and other miscellaneous features across the site.
    Thank you for your continued patience and support during this migration.

    Prefer a darker look? You can switch between light and dark modes in your account settings:
    smith-wessonforum.com/account/preferences

More people killed by .22lr than any other round ????

BAM-BAM

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 14, 2005
Messages
15,188
Reaction score
20,600
Location
A Burb of the Burgh
Just read the " Is the .380 enough" thread.

In that thread; and many others over the years, I've seen the assertion that "More people have died from a .22lr than any other round".

What is the basis for that statement?

Is that world wide or just the US??

I don't think it's been used as a military round since the American Civil War.

Are they including suicides????? Just shooting deaths and homicides in the US?

Edit: not saying the assertion is wrong ......just trying to understand the basis for the statement.
 
Last edited:
I'm not aware of any factual statements backed up by evidence regarding this assertion. My guess is that it's based on the assumption that the .22 is widespread, even in locations around the world where other/larger calibers are heavily regulated or banned. If you accept that, then it would stand to reason that more people are killed by it just based on it's wider availability.
 
In Bill Jordan’s day, you couldn’t go to a gun store and look at a selection of hundreds of different styles of handguns in multiple calibers. But anyone could walk into a sporting goods store or Sears and buy a .22 rifle. And thugs in organized crime were famously using .22’s to cap informants. Of course “zip guns” and “Saturday Night Specials” were the rage. Cops carried mostly .38 Specials or some, like Jordan, carried .357 Magnum. I’m guessing 9mm is the preferred handgun of the hardcore criminals these days, merely because of the availability of millions that can be easily stolen. Wilson Combat .45’s are in safes. 9mm’s are in the glovebox or center console of every pickup in America that displays an NRA member sticker. Easy picking.
 
So it's more of an "Urban legend" than a documented 'fact"

I would have guessed the 7.62x39 AK round .... a pretty active shooter over the past 70 years.

Or the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev round, assuming that is what Stalin, Mao, and the boys used for "persuasive political" purposes...
 
Last edited:
...
I’m guessing 9mm is the preferred handgun of the hardcore criminals these days, merely because of the availability of millions that can be easily stolen. Wilson Combat .45’s are in safes. 9mm’s are in the glovebox or center console of every pickup in America that displays an NRA member sticker. Easy picking.

I thought “fortay” was king with the thug life crowd.
 
That figure can't possibly include the millions killed in wars.

Greg Ellifritz' study didn't even claim .22 killed more than any other. Just that .22LR is about the same lethality as other handgun calibers based on available past data.
 
Or the 7.62 x 25 Tokarev round, assuming that is what Stalin, Mao, and the boys used for "persuasive political" purposes...

I would agree. History records many of millions of people killed in the fighting in southern and eastern Europe and Asia from the mid 1930s through the end of the Vietnam War. And in all circumstances the battle proven 7.62X25 Tokarev pistol (manufactured in Russian, China, Poland, Romania, Hungary, N. Korea, Pakistan, and Yugoslavia) was in use.
 
Last edited:
I would agree. History records many of millions of people killed in the fighting in southern and eastern Europe and Asia from the mid 1930s through the end of the Vietnam War. And in all circumstances the battle proven 7.62X25 Tokarev pistol (manufactured in Russian, China, Poland, Romania, Hungary, N. Korea, Pakistan, and Yugoslavia) was in use.

If this assertion is confined to pistol calibers only my vote would go to the 9mm Luger. It is still pretty much the standard caliber for Western countries!
Jim
 
This is an older study, but I doubt it's changed much. I think it's safe to say that in general criminal use, the .22 LR is right up there in the running. I know I've been guilty of quoting Jordan in the past, and I've modified that lately to say "Well, the .22 sure has killed a lot of people . . . "

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/GUIC.PDF
 
First, I doubt the statement is true.
Second, there is a big difference between effectively stopping a fight and eventually killing.
BTW, The lowly .22 has been used by select groups of elite forces in modern times. The US use of suppressed Hi Standard and Ruger 22 pistols by the US Seals in Vietnam and the Israeli Mossad /Military also use of suppressed .22 Ruger 10/22 rifles and MK pistols in assassinations come to mind. I'm sure there are others.
 
Last edited:
I doubt there is factual evidence to support that claim or such a claim about any caliber. Even if it were true, what point would it make? If there has been a documented claim of a .22LR round killing a grizzly bear, would it mean that everyone should carry that caliber in bear country for protection or sport hunting?
 
Just read the " Is the .380 enough" thread.

In that thread; and many others over the years, I've seen the assertion that "More people have died from a .22lr than any other round".

What is the basis for that statement?

Is that world wide or just the US??

I don't think it's been used as a military round since the American Civil War.

Are they including suicides????? Just shooting deaths and homicides in the US?

Edit: not saying the assertion is wrong ......just trying to understand the basis for the statement.


It's pretty much due to the fact that just like civilian self defense shootings, there isn't enough data being recorded and some sources are lacking in credibility. Most of what you're going to read here is mostly conjecture and hearsay.

Can a 22 caliber pistol or rifle kill? yes...
 
In my years of professional experience, the .22 is not the weapon of choice in homicides or attempted homicides. Yes, many have been killed with a .22, but nowhere near to what have been killed or wounded by a .38 Special/.357 Magnum, 9mm, and .45 Auto. A gun is a status symbol to the criminal street gangs, and a .22 doesn't have a lot of status. This is just my experience.
 
Sort of like the old statement of "The 30-30 has killed more game than all others combined" that you hear around the gun counter of local gun shops by the "Old Timers"
Randy
 
I'd bet the assertion is partially true in that 22 lr has caused many many accidental shootings/deaths.

But I think this is more an urban legend/internet lore that just gets passed along again and again.
 
Back in the 60's, I found a disproportionate number of miscreants carrying and using the .25 automatic, which was a revelation for me. I carried one fellow to the hospital ER three different times over a period of a few years. He had a proclivity for spending time in women's bedrooms who were married to other men!

Each time, after which the bullet(s) that struck him were still present in his body or had passed through, none of them hitting anything seriously important. He got cleaned up, disinfected, given a shot of strong antibiotic as well as a tetanus shot, and a big bandaid placed on entrance and exit wounds, and was released to me for further handling. The guy was pretty matter of fact about each incident, indicating that it was part of the risk he was willing to take. He was harmless as a fly, but just about as persistent in his activities.

I came to understand at the time that the reason the .25 auto was preferred was because the little semi autos, especially the higher quality ones, were pretty reliable shooters and they could be carried and hidden just about anywhere as opposed to most other handguns. I also arrested two different women later on in the 70's/80's who were carrying a small .25 auto. One had hers tucked up underneath the leg of her long line girdle, which a lot of women wore in those days. Had I not searched her legs seriously about as high up as I was willing to reach, I would have missed it, but when I felt it, it was immediately obvious. The second woman was also thoroughly searched, but her .25 auto was not found until the matron at the jail performed a body cavity search looking for the drugs we suspected she was carrying. What a surprise! Seems to me that it would have been somewhat uncomfortable, but maybe comforting!

For the record, I was also involved in additional shooting incidents where a .25 auto was responsible for the death of individuals. My observation, which we oft read and hear, is that it is fairly important where one lands the bullets they fire. Those .25 caliber rounds that struck something seriously important after sufficient penetration was achieved did the job as well as any other caliber.

I don't recall seeing any handgun that was not sufficiently accurate enough to allow hits that were likely to be effective at close range. I do, however, recall seeing quite a lot of both small revolvers and semi autos that were of such poor construction that they were more likely not to launch a round than they were to fire one. Those were certainly not recommended for serious social encounters, but you could get 'em cheap! Back in the day, a nice copy of a baby Browning .25 auto was the choice of a good many LEO's as a BUG. It was fairly common to see the outline of one that rode in the officer's hip pocket and which had left a mark on the outer material of the trousers similar to the ring that a snuff can leaves when carried in a hip pocket.

First order of importance is to have a gun, and the second thing necesary is being able to land the rounds you fire in the best place. There are other things that then affect the outcome, particularly the time necessary for serious incapcitation. What ever you carry, make sure it works well and that you can shoot it well. After that, carry what you can use the best for your particular abilities. Remember too that as you get older, your choices will have to change at some point in time! A man's gotta know his limitations, you know?
 

Latest posts

Back
Top