Guys based on the replies from some of my recent threads on self defense I decided to make this thread to ask about carrying a J-frame as a PRIMARY CCW weapon:



It seems common wisdom relegates the humble snub nose as a “backup gun” or “pocket pistol”, suitable as a last ditch option when the primary handgun goes down or runs out of ammo, but is there anybody out there who actually carries ONLY a J-frame .38 special or .357 magnum as their primary concealed and carry firearm? If so, why did you choose it?

Just trying to get some feedback from members here. Thanks!

-Jay

If you pocket carry it is my favorite. Everything I can realistically carry.

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I like Ike.

I think it's going to be a much larger number than your post suggests.
A 442 did the majority of my CC duty for many years. I would have no reservation going back to that if I wasn't slowly being pulled to the polymer dark side. It still does primary duty on pocket days, and most of my "around the house" and "under the pillow" carry.
Pretty easy-to-carry package with one speed strip.

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Because of the metric system?

My 442 goes with me everywhere, always. It is a primary as far as guns go, but it is a backup to my presence, voice, hands, feet, and marginal ability to run. It’s an absolute last resort defensive tool when all other options are exhausted, and in that role I’m 100% confident in it.

Model 649 .38 Spl enhanced by Cyl. & Slide, daily.
Most of the time pocket carry.

Usually a 3 inch k or a BHP somewhere close by..

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LEX ET ORDO

I have two friends who pocket carry a snubbie everywhere...

They don't fit is my pants pockets at all so a Kahr P380 covers that when it has to be done...

If I'm carrying IBW or OWB it is just as easy for me to carry the Commander I've been carry for going on 40 years than a snubbie...double the rounds at almost twice the velocity.

I've just seen the snubbie/.38 Special fail too many times to rely on it.

This guy doesn't recommend snubbies either...and he has been there and done that... This scenario was an ODO but it could just as easily been ones daughter... And he made four good hits out of 5 rounds fired...

Shots Fired: Palm Desert, California 03•30•1996 - Patrol - POLICE Magazine

Prefer to learn by the mistakes/experience of others...it is generally cheaper than leaning it yourself....

Bob

When I'm dressed very lightly I'll IWB a 649.
20150312_104857 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

With an Airweight 38 as backup.

If I absolutely have to I'll carry just the pair of them...but that's a rare thing.
20160407_115919 by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr

I only carry a J-frame as a primary within walking distances from my home.

That said, statistics say that it is all the gun you will ever need in virtually any self-defense situation.

If you are comfortable with it and live a low risk lifestyle, I think you'll be fine.

If it makes you feel any better, it's what I carried as an LEO in NYC for roughly four years...performing arrests, serving warrants, riding the subways and out on the streets.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

yes/sometimes. i don't feel the need for a full sized hand gun 2 extra mags, a bug, a knife, a extra knife, cordage, flashlight, non lethal system, 1st aid kit, body armor................ i'm going to the store not invading China.

That Palm Desert story is brutal, and no one can read it without considering the ramifications. But defensive armament is always a game of percentages. No matter what you carry some perp can always have a little more.

Maybe the real lesson is don't attack superior firepower? And that your fiance's purse should be big enough to hold your duty weapon?

1-I have confidence in the effectiveness of the weapon. 2- It's comfortable for me to carry. 3- I practice with it and shoot it well. IMHO these are the questions you need to answer. What works for one does not always work for another. Opinions help but you need to make that decision.

Like many others, I carried a J frame of various models as a primary for many years, and never felt under gunner or at any disadvantage. I think we sometimes get way to imaginarily influenced by TV shows and movies. With that said, I do like my "other" choices but I could live with just a couple J's stuffed with the proper ammo selection.

Here’s my deal: my job requires me to be “discreet” in some social type functions, so my 1911 or CZ isn’t practical (but never far away, and a rifle) but I won’t carry a .380 for that. I opt for a J frame.
Just walkin’ around, my 37 with +P (I know, I know) isokay with me.

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Halfway and one more step

I practice with my J-Frames. I by fare am no pro but feel I can handle a situation if I’m in fear of my life or grave bodily harm. I carry Two 442’s most days everywhere it’s legal.

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Two Handguns every day

Said it before, you can't equate a police situation with what the average Joe/Joanne might encounter going about their daily business. In a thread like this, the usual suspects always bring up Newhall, Miami-Dade, (in both cases, the officers and agents had their duty weapons), and now, Palm Desert, to re-enforce their belief that if you don't carry an 18+1 auto loader with 2-3 spare mags, you've got a death wish. I know this will rub the what if brigade the wrong way, but most of us will never have to draw our EDC in anger. That being the case, 5-6 rounds are enough.

In a Mika pocket holster every day. Normally a 340PD but occasionally another J frame.

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Pass it on.
Mark

I was stationed at Nellis three times for a total of nine years
between the mid '70s and late '80s.

Carried a Model 60 back then.

Now I'm secluded in the woods near 8,000'.

A Baby Chiefs does the duty here, except when I'm walking
or working in the woods in the summer, then I carry a bit
bigger snubby.

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Wrangler of stray Chiefs
Bob

My EDC is either my 640-1 or my 642-1.

Yes, have done this depending on the situation. Practice often. Better than a derringer.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

...years ago when toting a P7-M8 became too cumbersome for my taste and lifestyle and when I could no longer LEOSA qualify with both a semi-auto and a revolver.

That said, I recently acquired a Glock 43. I find it more concealable than a j-frame so I switched back to semi-auto carry at LEOSA quals last week.

Still can carry my 60, NY-1 or 642 on my Maryland permit and will, occasionally, but the concealability of the 43 makes it my ‘go to’ now and for the foreseeable future. Note: Still will carry the P7 occasionally, too, when my clothing facilitates it.

Be safe.

PS: Never carried two handguns and most likely never will.

The common wisdom encountered on gun forums is often lacking in common sense IMO.

If I were starting over and didn't own any guns, but was looking to buy something, all I would purchase would be snub revolvers for both carry and even home defense.

Consider the list of advantages a snubby revolver offers outlined in this article from Michael de Bethencourt...

http://www.snubtraining.com/pdfs/Why...sBeatAutos.pdf

While the snub revolver may not be ideal as a primary sidearm for military and police, it's a very sensible choice for the armed citizen because the context is so very different....

https://www.luckygunner.com/lounge/w...ocket-pistols/

From the linked article....

"The big problem is that most of the training industry has its roots either in the military or law enforcement communities. And myself included — longtime military officer, special forces, etc. I think sometimes we in the community lose sight of the fact that that mission is different. That, for instance, a law enforcement officer, when they get into position of having — having to shoot someone. The reason for that is because they have to take that person into custody. They have to put hands-on, force compliance, and take them into custody. You need more resources to do that than you do to just force, what we called in special forces, a break in contact with the enemy. And with criminals, that’s all we’re trying to accomplish as private citizens — a break in contact. “Look I don’t want to have anything to do with you. I want you to stop trying to hurt me and then I want to get out of here.” And in that context, smaller pistols can accomplish the same effect as a larger pistol can in the law enforcement and military communities." -Claude Werner

Also from the article/Claude Werner...

"I’m concerned about our preoccupation as an industry with what John Johnston calls sentinel events. That very distinct outlier. And if we had unlimited training resources, okay that’s great, let’s be prepared for everything. But ultimately, much of life is ruled by the Pareto Principle — the 80/20 rule where 80 percent of the benefit comes from 20 percent of the resource expenditure. So I like to think about focusing on — let’s solve the 80/20 problem first. And then if we have time left over, let’s think about the other things. So for instance, the biggest problem that we have is still one person, usually a guy, tries to rob us or assault us or kill us or whatever. Let’s be ready to deal with him first. In most cases, one or two shots will deal with that problem. Then after we’ve figured that problem out, how to solve it, then let’s move on to the further outliers and ultimately to the sentinel events. And right away, people want to focus on the sentinel event."

What's usually never considered is that what's the most effective solution for the most likely scenarios may actually be different from what's best for the outliers and IMO, it is different with the snubby revolver actually being the most inherently effective choice for what's most probable for the the armed civilian to encounter.

I daily carry a 649 because I have to be discrete and I cannot smoothly draw a glock 26 from the pocket.

I bought my Md 649 around 20 years ago or so. Its accuracy is amazing. It has been my primary carry gun (mostly pocket) for all these years. Maybe there's something better but I don't know what it is so, I'm going to continue to be pleased that I have a 649. I also appreciate that I can load it up with .357 if so choose.

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I'm gonna grow fins.

I carry a S&W 640 Pro Series everyday. Just like American Express says, I never leave home without "it". I feel very safe with it. When I go to the range I always shoot the "snubbie". A good friend of mine says practice, practice, practice, and you will get good with it.

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I've carried a J frame daily for over 40 years and am confident in my ability with it. My daily carry since retirement is a 642. I live SE of Phoenix but do spend quite a bit of time in the Phoenix area as well as trips to Albuquerque and I do not fell under armed.

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Support your Police, & NRA

The J frame became my off-duty gun in 1968 and I continued to carry one into retirement over 20 years ago. It has been recently replaced by the LCPII but there’s nothing wrong w/either as a primary for most peoples needs.

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Old Cop
LEO (Ret.)

I ankle carry a j frame daily. It fits my situation and I'm comfortable with it.
I'm not a LEO or military and can be careful where I go. Those guys don't have that luxury.

I think a lot of folks don't see it from the average civilians point of view. For years I went around unarmed and defenseless. Having a gun with me...even a 5 shot revolver in an ankle holster...is WAY better than the nothing I used to have.

Is it the best choice...no. I am armed, I can carry it at work, I shoot them fairly well and I believe it is enough .

When I carry a J Frame, which is fairly often off and on, it's my primary and usually only EDC. I'm comfortable with that for my perceived needs at this time in my life but have been comfortable with one for a great many years. The improvements made in ammo has been a big plus as far as I am concerned, and I have a lot of range time hours of practice with one.

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So long ... Ken

...I switched to Glock 43 for the simple reason it is more easily concealed...at least for me, it is.

ZERO questions re: a j-frame as a proper CCW.

Be safe.

I've carried a 642 as my only carry gun for several years. While I don't carry it very often now (a Beretta PX4 Compact is my current EDC), I still carry it from time to time.

I'm of the "break contact" camp. Whether I'm carrying my PX4 or my 642, my goal is to stop an attacker(s) so I can get out of there.

Whatever gun you carry, you should be prepared for situations when what you have isn't enough. And yes, sometimes even an 18-shot Glock may not be enough. People with more experience than me have said that in a self-defense encounter, one is more likely to run out of time than ammo.

Ultimately, carry what you're comfortable with, practice with it, and don't rely on it as your only tool in your self-defense toolbox.

Regarding what Mister X posted regarding instructors with military/law enforcement backgrounds...I think there's some validity there. I've sometimes thought about what kind of background an instructor would/should have that would reflect the reality of my life. My conclusion? Undercover/intelligence operatives. If you think about it, their job is about avoiding conflict/discovery, using force only as a last resort. That's a lot closer to my life than storming a terrorist stronghold or executing a high-risk arrest warrant. That's one of the reasons I like the works of Ed Lovette, his books The Snubby Revolver and Defensive Living (co-written with Dave Spaulding), as well as the various articles he's written over the years. He was a CIA paramilitary operations officer, often working in dangerous environments armed with a snub (or even unarmed). I regret I never had the chance to train with him before he retired.

Try working undercover without a weapon if you really want to up your fun and pucker factor. (Don't ask...)

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642-1, M&P15 TS

If I don't expect trouble, I feel like a 5 shot J-frame is enough.

I ccw a 442 Airweight in the summertime as it is just easier to carry than a Glock 19 (what I carry most of the year), I don’t feel particularly under-gunned per se.

I like the old FBI load and carry it in my J-frames.

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Some Might Say.

No, thanks. I'm good.

I have been fortunate to learn some empty-hand self defense techniques from someone who did undercover work in outlaw motorcycle gangs. His stories were rather...interesting.

Daily primary is a 340PD, front pocket. Going to the areas less desirable, a second 340 in a shoulder rig is my setup. Home defense at night when bleary eyed..a Glock 26 for now..until I can get a 8 shot 327 pugnose to replace it. When I put on my pants, the 340 goes in the pocket and it's there all waking hours, to me it's the perfect tool for the job, I've been carrying in a pocket a very long time and I've tried just about everything over the years. I started with revolvers around 2001 and somewhere got side tracked, not in any particular order here goes...a kel-tec380, a seecamp 32, kahr p380, doubletap 9mm, kel-tec pf9, kahr pm9, glock26, Glock36, Glock43, two different Rohrbaugh R9 9mm micro autos..those Rohrbaughs almost hit the sweet spot except they had some reliability concerns so it was back to what has to be first in my book and that is reliable..revolvers for me, warm and fuzzy, hard to make em choke and in a tangled up close fight, I wouldn't have any other at this point. All of these autos choked at one point while I was wringing them out the way I saw fit for a fighting firearm and once they choked they lost their proverbial shine to me. I'm sticking with the 340PD..Reliable, light as a feather in the pocket, some say too light but it's debatable so ohwell.., As much power as you want to dial in, and titanium pivot pins to ice the cake. I shoot my j-frames frequently and can make accurate and quick hits, it hurts to train hard but I enjoy it. I know exactly where to put the band-aid before the shooting sessions and now it doesn't draw blood, allowing longer training. Sounds crazy to some of you I'm sure but I feel like a little pain in training helps the focus and makes you train a little better, not as many wasted shots for sure...and that's what I'm after.

My primary EDC is a Model 638-1 loaded with standard velocity 158 gr. JSP ammo. My back up is a Model 38-0 also loaded with the same ammo. I also carry a fully loaded 8 round speed strip. My arthritic hands can no longer competently work a semi-auto pistol, and I'm too old, fat and crippled to run and fight. The J-frames work for me.

Regards,

Dave

All-steel J-frame .38 Special with +P ammo, pocket carried holstered as my primary and only EDC for twenty-one years. I've never felt inadequately protected. That's even more true now that I rarely get out due to health problems, but I was perfectly comfortable with the choice long before my health went to hell.

I've never been forced to draw the gun, and pray that continues to be the case; but I trust it anyway.

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Oh well, what the hell.

I've done some of that very work myself, back in the early 80's.

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642-1, M&P15 TS

Yes, I regularly carry a J-Frame as a primary gun when pocket carrying.

This is my 649-2.

[IMG][/IMG]
[IMG][/IMG]

I utilize the same rig when carrying my 638-2 or 638-3 as well.

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Dave Brown
SWCA #3279

Primary is a 649-3 or a 638 pocket or ankle. I used to use IWB and OWB with all kinds firepower. Now I carry what I thnk is necessary. 99% + (my own made up stat) of us will never have to draw a gun in self defense. Where I live and work the chances are very minimal. I carry because there is always that slight chance. So the odds are in my favor that if I have something on my person it will either be a detterrent or adequate to remove myself from harms way, up to and including neutralizing an assailant. Sometimes I will even just go with a vest pocket mouse gun if just to the mail box. I like the quote above about ...not invading China...

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Once I'd ordered my first Airweight (when the 642-1 was first released marked for use with +P), I realized I could set aside my 3913 and other small 3rd gen guns for off-duty.

Sure, I as I was still acquiring assorted pistols as the result of being able to order them for reduced armorer pricing in various armorer classes, I continued to buy and carry new guns.

However, the Airweight began to see increasingly more off-duty carry, especially in hot summer months or when I didn't otherwise feel like belting on a gun on my own time. (I spent 10-18hrs a day carrying an issued belt gun, so I liked being able to ease some of the weight and pressure off my hips on my own time.)

This increased carry role for that first Airweight came with a price, of course. I started spending more a lot more range time (while working as an instructor) dusting off my revolver skills and adjusting to the snappier recoil of the Airweight when loaded with +P loads.

Fast forward several more years and I now own 5 lightweight J's that have aluminum or Scandium aluminum frames, as well as the older steel J's I'd once carried as a much younger cop.

My J's have become my most commonly chosen primary retirement CCW choice, unless I simply feel like putting on a belt gun, or I'm wearing jeans with pockets that are too short and tight to accommodate my J's (in which case it's one of my LCP's, picked up for exactly that reason).

Personally, nowadays I can't imagine not having J's as an option, even as "primary" choices for retirement carry weapons.

FWIW, I don't see the 5 round capacity of the J-frame as being a terrible hindrance, as my first duty weapon was a 6-shot revolver, and I commonly carried either a 6 or 5-shot revolver off-duty. I'm just going back around full circle after many years of having carried pistols on & off-duty.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

Reliability. Pull the trigger, it goes bang. Every time.

Well, shooting a DA/DAO revolver does kinda require that the shooter realize the DA/DAO trigger requires a complete recovery before the next shot is fired. Some folks who aren't experienced revolver shooters can have some occasional trouble with sometimes short-stroking their trigger recovery.

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Ret LE Firearms inst & armorer

A good friend of mine, a former USAF Desert Storm Combat Veteran, and long time carry permit holder eschewed all his various Glocks for a 642, because it fit so nicely in a cargo shorts pocket.
When my wife and I got around to getting our licenses. I got her a 642 and stuck a pink Hogue grip on it.. It has no Obama Lock which is a plus. My wife, a breast cancer survivor was thrilled. I've had her shooting Remington FMJ -because I hate to clean lead - and 110 grain +p hollow points, which she finds quite controllable.
I have a early 70s vintage Model 60 with a pinned barrel,, but I decided to go for the 642 Pro Series. The 5 shot is quite popular and Sportsman's Guide can't keep them in stock.. I rather like the hammerless Centennial design and it hides quite nicely in a big pocket and avoids the problem of the hammer snagging. This is a plus in South Florida where jackets are impractical most of the year and generates more notice that I care to exhibit. Additionally, I wanted to try full moon clips.
I read a few reviews of the 642 pro on this site where the side plate was not stamped Pro Series. Mine has the correct side plate and the ejector is nicely jeweled or engine turned.
A number of my wife's friends have seen our Smiths and are seriously considering them now a a viable option.

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really dig my EDC 342ti. Haven't put my 340PD into service yet!

[QUOTE=SuperMan;140419226]
I've just seen the snubbie/.38 Special fail too many times to rely on it.

Snubbies FAIL? I'd like to hear the details on how probably one of the most reliable guns in existence failed? That statement alone makes me doubt your ability to discuss the matter with any credibility.

And no, I rarely carry my Scandium 340 as a primary any longer, even though I love the little maggie.

A good majority of my summer carry is a S&W 642. Cargo shorts, a t-shirt and a short sleeve button down shirt.

[quote=DepOne;140420673]It isn't the snubbie that I have seen fail...it is the .38 Special, even out a 4" barrel, is what I find marginal...

I have four snubbies...60-1, 649, LRC 9mm and a LCR .327...never have carried any of them but do enjoy shooting them... Mainly have never carried them because I don't pocket carry and when I HAVE to the much flatter semi just fits my pockets better...

And totally agree with the post above that way too much of the training at the big academies is too LE/Military oriented... 90% of training should be between contact and 7 yards...and done out of ones pocket if that is where it is carried...

Bob

I carry a SW 342PD pretty much exclusively. Weighs 10.7 oz empty. I WILL NOT be running towards any firefights as the article described. I am not a Police Officer and will not be running to save anyone but myself and my wife. If you see me running, it will be away from the trouble. I really super-rarely carry a Glock 26, 19 or 17. Has to do with the section of town.

There is a famous post about the Police Officer in a massive extended gunfight. He finally prevailed with his 45 in the end. He had run through numerous "clips" and kept missing... In the end he finally got off a headshot off and put down the bad guy who had shot him multiple times. Upon examination, the bad guy had been hit 17 times.


If I was a Police Officer, it would be a different story. One of the issues I have with CCW permit holders is that they think they can now serve and protect.

If I were a Police Officer, I think I would choose an AK-47 pistol for off duty carry... Actually, I'd like to choose that for On Duty carry! I would not select a SW M36, I would agree with that.

IMO, if it's for personal defense, and you haven't trained for long hours over a number of years, then a small wheel gun is the idea gun. If there is even the slightest intimidation with using an semi-auto, then don't carry one. I know this sounds kind of drastic, but if you need it to perform for you, then your life is on the line. The only down side with a J- frame is that you can shoot the wheels off of it, so to say. i was trained in the military and we'd shoot all day sometimes. You was expected to field strip it in the dark and clean or correct an issue. Personally, I prefer a .45, which I can disassemble blind folded. For my wife, she carries this Model 637-2 Deep Cover (Gunsmoke edition). It been customized as well.

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