Experience checking a firearm In Newark, NJ

I just had to write about my experience just this morning 05/17/2021 checking a firearm in at the United Airlines Terminal at Newark Liberty International Airport.

As many have heard checking a firearm in NJ can gain a person a non scenic ride to a nearby Jail. That was not my experience: HOWEVER CAUTION CAUTION CAUTION: I am a retired Law Enforcement Officer and I was carrying my 45 M&P Shield under the protection of the LEOSA "HR 218" Federal Statue.

Here is what I did and how it went: (By the way I have checked guns in at DFW Ft. Lauderdale, Las Vegas, Miami, West Palm Beach, Philadelphia, Oklahoma City, Omaha, NE, Tuscon and many other airports around the country.)

1. Unloaded my pistol at the hotel, unloaded all magazines and placed all ammo in its original box. Because I was in NJ I did not want to become a test case of their ban on magazines holding more than 8 rounds nor keeping hollow point ammo. (I believe NJ is way out of bounds on this but like I said I did not want to be the test case. Sure I think I could beat the rap but not the ride to jail.

2. Placed my gun and magazines in a solid hand gun case and locked both sides with an approved TSA COMBINATION case. Placed that gun case in a "roll aboard, and locked it too with an approved TSA lock.

3. When I arrived at the airport I told the ticket agent I had a firearm to declare. He directed me to gate 5 Terminal C where I met another ticket agent.

4. Told her I had a firearm to declare and she requested my ID. I gave her my DL so she could look up my flight info. My wife waited with me . As she was bringing up my flight information and had found it, I showed her my retired Police Department Issued ID along with the approved and issued badge my agency provided me. MY ID and Badge clearly indicate "RETIRED" but she asked me If I was going to fly armed. I know that is illegal under LEOSA and said "NO I am checking it."

5. She filled out my firearms declaration and instructed me to put it inside my "roll aboard" That is where I always put it but I thanked her anyway.

6. She made a phone call and I thought it would be to the Port Authority Police. I could not hear what she said. Soon another United employee arrived and called someone on the radio. There was a brief exchange but after than she said, just wait here she will be down in about ten minutes. I expected to see a Port Authority female officer and a few moments later I saw the distinct flashing lights of a Port Authority Police vehicle outside the Terminal but:

7. Within five minutes a very polite United employee arrived and asked me if I was waiting for assistance. I told her about the firearm and she asked me if my declaration was in the case. She said follow me and took my roll aboard and said she would escort me to TSA. On the way there she asked me if I had ever checked a gun at Newark and when I said no she apologized and said the process was different at each airport. Frankly, just the way she said things made me think I was being taken to a Port Authority Police Office. I told her I had flown armed on many occasions (when on active duty on official business) and she seemed surprised but asked me no questions.

8. We got on an elevator and went upstairs to the second level and she came to a locked door and said wait here I will take it inside, should be about ten minutes or less. She entered and I am expecting the swat team to descend on me at any moment. Five minutes later she says, "You're all good to go and your bag and is locked and so is your gun case. Have a great flight and TSA Pre Check is right there" as she pointed out the entrance to Pre Check which I have.

9. Two hrs and 25 minutes later we landed at our destination, waited for 30 minutes and my bag was third through the the doors of baggage claim. The gun was in its case, the case was locked and all was well. No muss no fuss. I wonder if showing the ticket agent my badge and ID negated the calling of the PAP.?

Smooth, no doubt to your preparation.

Doubtful that showing your badge had anything with going through the process in a legal manner that any individual would be able to do. I also have flown on duty, off duty and recreational and even through Newark with no issues. As long as you declare, you should be fine.

Newark

Just want to see if I understood your comment. "just so you declare." I agree that doing so SHOULD NOT CAUSE AN ISSUE. optimum word "SHOULD" I was unclear if you have flown through Newark. People I know have indicated that when they declared at Newark, the ticket agent called Port Authority Police to have them person vetted. As I mentioned that was not my experience but I think it was from what I know a rare experience.

If you have travelled through Newark please let us know your exact experience. Newark is very tricky and for a non LEO trying to follow TSA and Federal Law gets folks arrested.

The most famous case is a gentleman from another state who was going to Allentown, PA and had declared his firearm. When arriving at Newark his flight was late and the flight to Allentown, PA had departed. His baggage was taken off his incoming flight. He claimed it and went to the Marriott on the airport. He stayed overnight, and came back the next morning to complete his flight. He was not a LEO current or retired. He declared his firearm and PAP was called and he was arrested for being in possession of a firearm in violation of NJ law. Its a mandatory 3 years and Chris Christy under intense pressure from gun rights only commuted his sentence but did not issue a pardon. He is now a convicted felon who has no right to own or posses a firearm. Please let us know as a LEOI your experience at Newark. It might save someone a trip to jail or a felony conviction.

Old_Cop said:

Smooth, no doubt to your preparation.

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Thanks for the comment. I really, really would have liked to make their ban on 8+ and hollow points an issue but I also know the court system up there is not conducive to gun rights and I did not want to leave it to SCOTUS to decide a case since they are reluctant to take gun cases. I also dont have the money to hire those kinds of lawyers....

I wrote the piece hoping to generate more comments from people who have flown through Newark or any of the NY metro airports to see what they have experienced.

Welcome home.

Where I live they deal with hundreds of checked firearms every year. We call it hunting season. My only experience with checking a firearm to go to Gunsite took about 10 seconds. “Is it unloaded? Where is the ammunition? Put this form in the box. Pick it up in PHX. Hand it off to TSA over there. Thank you.” Done. I’m lucky to live in firearm friendly territory.

Glad you made it through OK. When I left NJ in 2016, the maximum capacity was 15 and HP’s were a no-no. Boy have things changed.

I've had some interesting experiences with the incredible differences in airports/TSA and how they regard checked firearms.

First was about 10 years ago when wife and I were flying out of RDU- Raleigh Durham,NC enroute to SD for a pheasant hunting trip. Checked 3 shotguns, IIRC.
TSA at RDU examined them like were were smuggling Uranium. One agent, looking at a double that was broken down and in a 'short' case designed for such asked 'How do we know it's not loaded?' OMG - really?

When we were returning at Mitchell, SD, to fly out, TSA looked at our guns with all the interest they'd give a yardstick.

Another was a security contract I worked in Puerto Rico.
Had to go the 'special baggage claim' at San Juan Airport to get my checked S&W M&P .45.
You would think perhaps they'd have that area staffed with someone who had somewhat of a command of the English language. No - they didn't, and my HS Spanish was lacking.

In very halting, nearly unintelligible English, I am asked "How can you have gun?"
I felt my BP rising and wanted to reply that I was a daggoned American, that's 'how I can have gun!'
But - figured that would help anything much.
This went back and forth until he gets out with "Show papers you can have gun!"
Show him my LEOSA card and my state's CC permit.
He makes intensive notes with a pencil in a logbook and copies all information from both.
Then - all is well. Buenos Dias!

My only comment is concerning the use of TSA locks on the gun case itself. The regs specifically state that the person checking the firearm is the only person to have either the keys or combination to the lock(s) used to secure the firearm, and and TSA lock does not meet that test since it can be opened by TSA keys that are available to any Tom, Dick, or Harry.

Yes, the bag in which the gun case was placed should have a TSA lock, but the gun container itself should be more secure. This is a common misunderstanding, but one that could cause a person to run afoul of the federal regs.

The problem is that the TSA website, linked below, actually has some conflicting language that runs afoul of the regs themselves. They state on the website: "Only the passenger should retain the key or combination to the lock unless TSA personnel request the key to open the firearm container to ensure compliance with TSA regulations.", but then confuse things with" "You may use any brand or type of lock to secure your firearm case, including TSA-recognized locks."

The US Code cite is 49 CFR § 1540.111, which clearly states "(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination." This is not possible using a TSA lock.

Transporting Firearms and Ammunition | Transportation Security Administration

49 CFR SS 1540.111 - Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals. | CFR | US Law | LII / Legal Information Institute

My simple rule, sure would not work for everyone but fits me fine, no transportation that flies or floats.

I have been flying with firearms several times a year for 30+ years now.

I am the only person that can open my bags. If TSA wants to look in them, they must get the keys from me. As Sistema1927 points out that is how the regs read

I actually use a soft gun rug inside my Samsonite hard shell suitcase. The Samsonite has a combination lock under the grip and a key lock on each of the sides.

Occasionally I get an inspector that tells me the gun must be in a hard, locked container. I point out that the suitcase is a hard locked container. If they argue I call for a supervisor.

I have only been through Newark once, that was landing there. I never departed through there. My trip had me driving from Newark to Maine. I flew back from Maine

At one airport in New England, after declaring my firearms and signing the tag, I was walked inside the secure baggage area where a TSA inspector took my bag into the next room. It had a glass door so I was watching. He called a 2nd TSA inspector in.

The 2nd guy came out and told me I had two firearms in my case and that was against the law. I assured him it was not and asked for a supervisor.

Well two more TSA inspectors came into that room and they were looking through a 3 ring binder. One of the new guys came out with the three ring binder and gave me the hard sided container argument. He told me that the luggage could not be the hard sided container. He argued that he has been doing his for years and knew what he was talking about. So I asked him if rifles could be in locked luggage or if they had to be in a locked contained inside the luggage. Logic only made him mad.

I again asked for a supervisor. When the supervisor arrived he also argued about the hard sided container. After all that is what the three ring binder said

Well I did get on my flight on time, but it took 4 inspectors and 3 supervisors before my suitcase was allowed to continue on.

Two Smith and Wessons should NEVER require seven TSA personnel to lawfully get through baggage

The reason that I am not specifically mentioning the location is that when I returned home I had some folks with much more clout than me contact the TSA and airport about the issue.

This no longer occurs at this airport. I have a colleague that has been through there several times since the TSA assured us of their reform

Long reply coming - sorry

I wonder if showing the ticket agent my badge and ID negated the calling of the PAP.?

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I don't think so, not specifically. What your badge and ID do is cover you under LEOSA AND FOPA. FOPA is very clear that if you're legal to be in place 1 with a gun and you fly to place 2 where you are also legal with a gun then you can fly unimpeded. (Side note - I'm not sure how it works with trains and buses but if your luggage is checked all the way through place 1 to place 2 then passing through states where the gun is not permitted is probably irrelevant.)

The issue of having to accept your luggage due to a flight delay and then returning to an airport in a state where you cannot possess that firearm is a significant issue. The NJ case should never have happened but to avoid that issue you probably need to do one of two things:

A. Contact the airline and tell them that you want them to hold your baggage in a secure location and put it on the next flight to your destination or put it on the flight you will be on.

B. Keep your mouth shut and check the luggage the same way anyone does. First, it might just pass through unnoticed. Second, if TSA spots the gun in X-ray, you're not in possession of it so if they question you just tell them the truth but do not accept possession of the luggage. Make them figure it out. (Speculation, of course, but it's way safer than literally declaring it in a gun unfriendly jurisdiction. Just carry your toothbrush in your carry on. )

Some regulatory issues:

Finally, the United States Department of Justice has issued a written opinion that federal law protects airline travelers with firearms, assuming: (1) the person is traveling from somewhere he or she may lawfully possess and carry a firearm; (2) en route to the airport the firearm is unloaded and inaccessible from the passenger compartment of the person’s vehicle; (3) the person transports the firearm directly from his vehicle to the airline check-in desk without any interruption in the transportation, and (4) the firearm is carried to the check-in desk unloaded and in a locked container. DoJ Opinion Letter

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https://d3uwh8jpzww49g.cloudfront.net/sharedmedia/1509107/don-young-nyc-fopa.pdf

© 2021 National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced. This may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.


That said, let's discuss this again:

All firearms and/or ammunition must be declared orally or in writing in accordance with the air carrier’s procedures. Civil and criminal penalties may be applied for failure to declare a firearm in checked baggage.
All firearms must be unloaded.
The firearm must be carried in a hard-sided container. The container must be locked and only the passenger may retain the key or combination.

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© 2021 National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced. This may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.

Let's focus on the one section that I put in bold letters.

What is a locked, hard side container? If you think that's a self evident question you'd be wrong.

The plain language would seem to indicate some kind of hard side SUITCASE or GUN CASE that can be locked. And for the many times I flew with firearms that was how I handled it. Before my 2018 fire I had a magnificent Delsey brand suitcase made of a very solid polymer with two locks AND a combination lock. I simply placed my handgun in a zippered pocket, took it into the airport, told the counter clerk, and followed the airline's procedure. The airline's procedure has changed, I won't detail that part, but the follow up was always I either was escorted to a TSA room where I was asked to unlock the case, the gun was checked by the TSA officer, then he would put the gun back, zip it up, close and lock the case and hand me the keys and let me roll the combination or, sometimes, I brought the suitcase to a TSA "booth" or room, and they simply took it and that was that.

Then a friend flew another airline and he interpreted the hard sided, locked case to just be a typical MTM plastic case to which he attached two locks and checked it INSIDE his soft-sided roll-on type of case. That airline accepted that and I was shocked.

However, a few years ago I flew to Colorado from DFW. The counter clerk at DFW literally called the TSA over to determine if my hard-sided suitcase with a gun inside was permissible. I was thinking, "What?! Are you an idiot?!". The TSA officer looked at it, said it was fine, and that was that.

BUT! When I returned through the Denver airport the airline counter clerk went nuts! I'm like, "Huh? Are you stupid?" but she literally made phone calls and so forth until she was reassured that I was good to go. What was the problem? Well, somehow, she had become accustomed to MTM-type cases being locked inside soft-sided luggage. Apparently, this has become commonplace.

Personally, I think that violates the statute but by bending the definition I can see how the result would be exactly that.

Next two times I flew with a gun I used a solid handgun case (yes, it does scream gun) with soft sided luggage for my clothes. The counter clerk at one airport literally asked me if I wanted to put the little gun case inside my larger, soft luggage. I said no - but her motivation was different - she was apparently used to the case inside the case concept which avoids paying for a second piece of luggage. Very nice of her but I wasn't interested in opening my well packed, filled luggage to jam the little gun case in there. It shipped fine, and was literally hand carried to me after the flight.

So, there you have a few differing scenarios when you fly.

Final note:

All checked baggage is subject to inspection. If during the inspection process it is necessary to open the container, the air carrier is required to locate the passenger and the passenger must unlock the container for further inspection. The firearm may not be transported if the passenger cannot be located to unlock the container. If you are traveling with a firearm, pay close attention to airport pages and announcements. If requested, provide the cooperation necessary to inspect your firearm.

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© 2021 National Rifle Association of America, Institute for Legislative Action. This may be reproduced. This may not be reproduced for commercial purposes.

jtpur said:

I expected to see a Port Authority female officer and a few moments later I saw the distinct flashing lights of a Port Authority Police vehicle outside the Terminal...

Frankly, just the way she said things made me think I was being taken to a Port Authority Police Office.

... and I am expecting the swat team to descend on me at any moment.

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So you, retied law enforcement, were expecting subterfuge on the part of law enforcement?

Makes ya think huh?

lawandorder said:

My simple rule, sure would not work for everyone but fits me fine, no transportation that flies or floats.

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Me too! I would not be afraid to fly with a handgun from Indiana to Florida, or something like that, but no thanks on flying to/through any of the gun-loon states. I’m too old and soft to risk spending time in jail in a place like that.

A little different scenario but I have a friend who flies quite a bit with his competition shotgun. He never seems to have any trouble. I guess the Second Amendment applies mainly to target shotguns.

Reading through this only convinces me if I need to fly somewhere I’ll go unarmed, it’s just not worth a trip to jail at my age. That said if I can’t drive to a destination I’m not going there.

NJ is a 10 round magazine capacity state but as retired LEO you can have a 15.

Also, you should not use an approved TSA lock, as per regulations you are the only one who should have access to that firearm.

NJ sucks, I make it a point to fly out of Philadelphia when taking firearms anywhere.

Old cop said:

Reading through this only convinces me if I need to fly somewhere I’ll go unarmed, it’s just not worth a trip to jail at my age. That said if I can’t drive to a destination I’m not going there.

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I think you're being hard on yourself. It's a weird experience every time but as long as you're not headed to NY, NJ, CA, MA, or CT you should be okay. Well, for instance, Texas has reciprocity with 37 states. So I have no issue flying into those places with a handgun checked on board.

13 other states? No gun.

We can drive across the entire south, from AZ through to the southeastern states, so a road trip is easy. I'm pretty sure the next tier of states are legally accessible with a firearm, too. Except maybe Illinois - I'd have to start doing research if I was headed there. Which I won't be.

ISCS Yoda said:

I think you're being hard on yourself. It's a weird experience every time but as long as you're not headed to NY, NJ, CA, MA, or CT you should be okay. Well, for instance, Texas has reciprocity with 37 states. So I have no issue flying into those places with a handgun checked on board.

13 other states? No gun.

We can drive across the entire south, from AZ through to the southeastern states, so a road trip is easy. I'm pretty sure the next tier of states are legally accessible with a firearm, too. Except maybe Illinois - I'd have to start doing research if I was headed there. Which I won't be.

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I’m covered by LEOSA so maybe you’re right. I have a 90 y/o aunt in FL and hope she makes it to 100, but I may have a decision to make in the next few years.

Left NJ years ago, best move I ever made.