I'm planning ahead for future gun purchases and am interested in an M1a, both as a momento of my father's service during WW-II (albeit an M1 Garand in 30.06) and for self-defense. Plus, they just look cool! I also don't have a main battle rifle.

However, I'm struggling with the M1a for self-defense and wanted your thoughts.

I'm an urban dweller with houses on either side and no plans to bug out to rural areas in an SHTF scenario (but we all know what they say about plans).

I've seen some YouTube videos and read SHTF posts about the benefits of having an M1a in .308, but pretty much it seems only for hunting and sniping/counter-sniping at a distance. I understand that those cartridges are REALLY loud indoors, particularly when muzzle breaks are installed, as is the case with Springfield Armory M1a sold in California, where I live. That and over-penetration of the .308 from what I understand makes the M1a/.308 not ideal for home defense.

As to self-defense at a distance, say counter-sniping (which the LGS suggested), I'm thinking that hiding well and/or getting out of the situation would be the better strategy vs. counter-sniping, or just using a scoped AR-15. I realize that there's only so much one can do, preparing for more likely scenarios is better, and that it's impossible to prepare for every scenario; I'm thinking that counter-sniping would be highly unlikely, the 1990s Balkans civil war notwithstanding.

What are your thoughts?

I think a .308 rifle would be excessive in a typical urban/suburban defense situation. A .223 (or 9 mm) carbine may be a good alternative. Good luck with your decision.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I cannot foresee any self defense situation in which an M1A would be beneficia/useful unless it is the only firearm you have.

Large, heavy, cumbersome inside a dwelling, stout recoil, loud, too much caliber for the situation.

Soo many other options. I'd say just buy the rifle and have fun with it. But urban SD, no.

I think you're right in assuming "counter sniping" is a bit of a goofy selling point.

I can't see any reason to buy an M1A over an AR (or mini14/other more California appropriate options) if self defense is your main concern.

They are damn cool though, and buying a gun because it's cool is cool itself. I've enjoyed the M1As I've used, and if i had the spare cash I wouldn't mind having a classic m14 patterned M1A.

Unless you live in a house with bullet resistant walls I would say NO.

A M1A out of the box needs extensive accurizing. After that they can kick anatomy out to 600 yds and beyond.

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"Don't Give Up the Ship"

the Ruger Mini 14 was cloned after the military M14 , so it has a Garand style action and can be had with a classic real wood stock. thats what I would get...........and i did!

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

Have 2 now, owned several over the years, shot many more, and I have never seen that.

What kind of accuracy out of the box are you seeing?

Mine; an early (2008) NRA Model with the 16" heavy tapered barrel, has a 1-3 Weaver shotgun scope, Hogue ghillie green (came with a black) stock, paracord sling...... and ..... a 10 round (almost flush fit) magazine. Very untacticoool looking from any distance. Extra mags are 20rd factory.

Different guns for different purposes. My M14 semiauto clone has a GI match barrel and a relieved flash hider; I've shot it at 600 yards; it has been on the money. If you want more punch at extended distances, it fills the bill. For closer work, an AR-15 or M1 carbine might be more practical.

This rifle, by the way, was purchased in 1969 as the Mark IV from AR Sales, an early provider of M14 clones using mostly military parts, and has an issue fiberglass stock.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

My thought is you might be trying a little too hard to justify purchasing a gun you want. I know I’ve done the same thing, as I suspect most of us have.

If you want the gun and can afford it, buy it. OTOH, if you feel the need for a rifle for self-defense purposes in an urban area, there are several better choices.

Urban self defense is close in, not at a great distance. My preference indoors is a 20 gauge semi-auto shotgun, outdoors I'd go with an AR.

In your situation, I would opt for an M-1 carbine or a .9mm carbine. Perfect for what and where you are talking about.

They do look cool, and they are nice to shoot, but as a home defense weapon it may well be the worst choice you could make, unless you live in an isolated location with no background (other houses, roads, vehicles and people) to worry about hitting. It would make a good stand-off rifle, to keep the riff-raff beyond a couple hundred yards away. They are heavy and somewhat cumbersome, two reasons the military changed to the AR in the early 1960's. The cartridge is powerful, and can penetrate several walls in a house and still wound or kill what's on the other side, so a crowded neighborhood is no bueno. I agree with RCL-09 below. They are fun to shoot.

It depends on what model you get to a large degree; I have a Loaded M1A, it has the National Match barrel and I can shoot 1-1/2 MOA all day long with it, out to 800 yards (mine is scoped). The National Match and Super Match models are even better. It also helps accuracy to load your own ammo, powder load and bullet weight can mean a lot in this rifle.

No way would I use one for home defense. you want something light, quick to the hand and maneuverable, with a load that won't penetrate multiple walls. I keep a .45 1911 for that purpose.

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I think that if the guy who is in your house that shouldn't be, has 6 friends in all your neighbors houses at the same time, facing the same direction as the shot you need to take, this would be the perfect Rifle to take all 7 of them out at the same time, with that one shot.

Get a M1A SOCOM. With a 308 you just need to hit the bad guys. Although my home defense gun is a SBR 300blk with a 7.5” barrel.

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Just hanging with my dogs

I vote for a Remington 870 12 gauge pump with an 8 shot tube loaded with OO buck. Inside a house an M1A is way too much gun in my opinion.

I love my M1A, but it's not a realistic self defense tool for me.

20 ga pump, PCC in the caliber of you defensive handgun, Mini 14, 5.56 AR or M1 carbine? A better case can be made for any of those, as stated above. My vote would be for the 20 ga pump or the PCC.

If you want an M1A get one. I shoot mine from 100 to 400 yards with iron sights, mostly at steel. It's great fun. I shoot groups with it maybe once a year just to prove my old eyes still can.

I would not spend money on the M1A before I had a practical defensive long gun. Planning for worst case, which one do you think would allow you to transition between multiple targets at close range?

What self defense are we talking about? In your home and on your immediate property, a handgun caliber or a shotgun is excellent for self defense. If you are going into some kind of assault defense in an urban environment, that surely is not self defense. And in the latter situation I would like something that can kill through a car or a concrete block wall. Just do not point an M1 at something you do not want to kill, and that includes whatever the target is standing in front of.

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Kind regards, Heinz

Against bears, sure.

For bad guys? Use carbine in 5.56 or 9mm

M1As are very cool! By all means use what ever justification needed to get yourself an M1A or any new gun, but for me there are better choices for home/self defense. It's really hard to beat a good ole shotgun. That said, use what makes you happy, but be conscious of your surroundings and the issue of over penetration.

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213th FBINA

I like the M1A and have a full-size and a scout-size. Can't imagine clearing my home in the dark or firing either without adequate hearing protection. Recently I installed a Stern Defense 9mm upper on an AR lower along with a Sig MSR red dot optic, Inforce weapon light, and a handful of PMAG 27-rd Glock mags. It's fun to shoot and would be just fine for home and urban self defense and to pair with a Glock 17 or 19 9mm pistol.

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Tom in AZ
Respect the Dingbat

I have a M1A (308) and like it. NY law I'm forced to use the 10 round Mags! With that said and note I live rural my go to house guns are two Mossie pump 12G shot guns. I have a nine shot with the conventional tube Magazine and another with the detachable 10 round Mag.

For normal problems those two and a couple easy to reach handguns are plenty for the wife & I.

If something big is going on and I find I need longer range firepower for some reason the M1A will be called on..

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14 S&W Revs none with locks!

There is nothing wrong with buying an M1a because you want one. Firearms are for enjoyment

However, I must agree that a .30 caliber rifle is the wrong choice for self defense.

The two long guns that are the easiest to get from my bed are a 12 gauge SxS and a Lever Action Marlin in 45 Long Colt.

There are plenty of great choices in AR style carbines chambered for pistol calibers at reasonable prices right now.

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"Acta non verba"

Are you actually saying that an out of the box M1a is not accurate enough to hit a man sized target at normal self defense distances (3 - 20 yards)

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"Acta non verba"

Newbie question: what is an "SxS." What type of ammo do you have in it?

About PCCs, I have my eyes on the Ruger PC9 carbine. It's REALLY hard to find out here.

I was looking into Henry's lever actions in .357 Magnum for home defense, but multiple posts on a Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS) forum disparaged the entire line due to the quality being low ("entry level" I believe were the exact words) and jamming during rapid fire.

I absolutely love my M1A...but it's the last thing I would reach for in a home self-defense scenario.

SxS = side by side; double barreled shotgun. As opposed to O/U = over and under doubled barreled shotgun.

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- Change it back -

I agree with several posters that an M1A is a bit much for urban self defense.

If part of your desire is to give a nostalgic nod to your father's WWII service, I agree with one of the suggestions above that a USGI M1 carbine may more fit the bill.

With modern self defense ammo for the .30 carbine it packs a pretty decent punch in the urban setting range. I've taken several whitetail deer with a M1 carbine using soft/hollow point ammo, all one shot stops. With a USGI 15 magazine in the mag well and two more in the stock pouch you'd have a pretty good loadout for a bugging out.

Plus, USGI M1 carbines look cool too.

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- Change it back -

SxS is a Side by Side shotgun

A few years back I acquired one that had it's barrels damaged in a gun shop break in. So I cut them back to 11 inches and made a dandy little Coach Gun for the house.

While it will chamber and fire all 12 Gauge shells up o 3" Magnum, I keep it loaded with the Federal 1 3/4" shells loaded with #8

The short shells are easy for anyone to shoot. There is also an easy to grab ammo bandolier next to the SxS with both #8 and slug rounds

The only two Henry Lever Actions that I own are 22LR and they work fine. All my other Levers are Marlins, Winchesters and Rossis. A few summers ago I converted one of my 1894 Marlins into a take down rifle.

I just had a Saddle Shop make me a leather roll for the take down rifle, I just need to photograph it. It looks very cool for traveling

I never liked the Henry lever guns because they do not have a side loading gate. It made topping off the rifle much more difficult if you were out and about.

Henry is addressing that issue in their new Levers and I will be a customer for at least one or two down the road

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"Acta non verba"

All ya need is a double barrelled shotgun!
-Joe Biden

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S&W BG380, S&W 915 9mm

Pretty much what I wanted to say.

In 1942, my Dad was drafted into the US Army and issued an M1911A1. Later he was issued an M1 Carbine and liked it "lots better". He told me he could shoot the carbine from the hip and score better than when taking slow careful aim with the pistol. That's why the Army issued them: it is much easier and faster to train a man to shoot one accurately.

The advice about getting a handgun is all well and good, IF you are willing to put in the time to become reasonably proficient with it. That's a big IF, especially in the current environment of ammo shortages and high prices.

For home defense, 15 rounds of more or less pistol-power ammunition before a mag change makes a lot more sense than any full-power rifle in your situation. And it would be a way better momento of your Dad's WWII service than the M1A.

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You're shy a few manners.

Since you’re limited to 10 rd mags, why not just get an M1 Garand? Two extra rounds doesn’t seem like a big deal.

Instead of having one that kinda-sorta looks like the gun your Dad carried, except made by a commercial company using a cast receiver in a different caliber, you could (theoretically) get the actual gun he carried in the war.

I believe they are California compliant, and you can still get one from CMP if you go for the Expert Grade, which at $1000 is cheaper than an M1A.

The “countersniping” thing seems pretty silly. If a real sniper is shooting at you, you won’t be shooting back with that big hole in you.

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Rule of law, not a man.

Why the shot No. 8 shot shells?

At 3 yards, an M14 and an M6 will work just fine

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They won't penetrate a double Sheetrock wall between rooms, but they will surly be felt by an intruder who gets a butt or chest full

Besides, mini shells are only offered by a few manufacturers and in only a few loadings.

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"Acta non verba"

That was my choice also. I bought mine about 3 years ago before the troubles when prices were around seven fiddy. Reliable like a hammer.

M1 carbines are nice, I have an Inland, but I'll take the Mini-14 and the cheaper, more available ammo. Plus you can hang things on them like scopes and red dots.

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That's just somebody talkin.

I have a Mini-14 (5.56 NATO), which is a safe queen at the moment and quite lonely. If my LGS restocks them, she might just have a playmate.

About WWII mementos, I might just buy a Rock Island Armory 1911 Mil-spec. It would most likely hang in a display on my mantle, .45 ACP being as hard to find as an honest politician

As to the M1 carbine's ammo, the only source I could find was wikipedia, which I'm skeptical about, listing it as 7.62 x 33mm. Is that the correct ammo? If so, where in the world can I find it?

M1 carbine shoots ".30 carbine" ammo. Probably the only people who call it 7.62 x 33mm are the Israelis.

30 carbine ammo is not any more or less available that most other ammo these days. I always keep an eye out for it and I recently saw 30 carbine ammo for sale on the shelf at Bass Pro and Academy Sports.

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- Change it back -

The .30 Carbine is mostly a proprietary round. Aside from a couple of handguns made for it over the years the M1 Carbine and its various copies is pretty much the only weapon chambered for it. That being said, with all the millions of M1 Carbines made there is still a steady demand for the ammo, although we're long past the Golden Years of the 1960s with all of that cheap government surplus ammo.

As for an M1A as a home defense weapon... if you're going to do that might as well go the whole way and get a .50 BMG. Your hearing will be just as badly blown out either way if you dare touch it off inside a dwelling, and the next five houses in line with yours will all have a clean through-and-through hole in them. With the piddly .308 you probably won't manage more than three.

AK's inside a school with blanks are damn loud. A 9mm inside a typical room in a house is damn loud. A .308 would probably do a real number on what's left of my ears. I don't think most people appreciate the disorientation from loud gunshots inside a building.

That being said, I have M1A NM and refinished the wood stock, added a scope and bipod because....it's cool. Then I bought an M1A SOCOM 16 in green plastic because....it's cool! So my advice would be to buy the M1A for CQB and then when you determine that it may be inappropriate you will be forced to buy something additional!

I love shooting my Garand. It’s not exactly a home defense weapon. It would definitely dispatch any varmints, two legged or four. Problem is it has more reach than needed in an indoor closed environment like a home.

An M 1-A is a fine battle rifle, and plenty accurate for most target shooting.
Mine will put 5 shot inside of 2 inches at 100 yards, right out of the box, if I do my part.
For warfare, the 308, and this rifle will change cover into concealment, and do a pretty fair job, disabling an Automobile, if properly applied.
That said, as a home defense choice, I would be scared to death to pull the trigger in a residence, for fear of shooting through my house and killing my neighbor.
Long story short, get the M-1A is a great gun. Buy it you will probably love it. Save a few bucks for a good handgun, or shot gun for home defense..

I’ve owned two M1As over the years. The first was a mostly military parts early Springfield armory Supermatch M1A. I bought it from the Ziebach county Sheriff who had been using it as a patrol rifle unit, he figured out it was a bit much.

I used it in National match competition and with hand loaded 168 gr SMKs is was a 3/4 MOA rifle. With issued M852 Match ammo it was about 1.25 MOA. With issued M118 ammo, it really depended on the ammo. Older lots of M118 were 1.5 MOA, while the newer lots were normally 2-3 MOA and totally uncompetitive, but that was the ammo’s fault, not the gun (*keep that thought in mind for a few minutes). The quality of the 173 gr bullets used in M118 declined sharply as Lake City’s tooling for it got tired.

I eventually sold it to another competitor to fund my switch to an AR-15 math rifle. I’ve kicked my self ever since as it would be about a $4K rifle now.

My second M1A is a standard model with no bells and whistles, standard barrel, non glass bedded, and non unitized gas system. I did however install a National match front sight as well as a rear sight hood and then accurized the rear sight. (That basically involves turning the sight boss to allow room for a spring to remove hysteresis in the windage, glass bedding the rack to eliminate play, and tweaking the cover a bit to remove the fore and aft rocking of the sight body.)

With handloaded 168 gr SMKs it will shoot down around 1.5 MOA. Not quite enough to be competitive in National match at 600 yards, but darn close.

With decent 150 gr M80’esque handloads using Hornady 150 gr FMJ bullets it’s still a solid 2 MOA rifle.

I’ve also shot a variety of M80 ball loads in it including US and Australian, as well as Mag Tech and Privi Partisan M80 commercial loads. Accuracy varies from 3 to 4 MOA which was about par for the M14 with M80 ball.

*Remember my comment about the early SA Supermatch shooting poorly with substandard ammo? I suspect that’s the root cause of many of the accuracy complaints about the standard M1A rifles. Feed it military ball grade ammo and you get military ball grade accuracy.

——

I also owned a few FALs in both inch and metric configurations and while I loved the handling and the adjustable gas system, accuracy was never better than 3-4 MOA and At eventually turned them into a lot more money than I paid for them.

I also had a HK91 and while it was very well made and very accurate (it’s a battle rifle that really only needs a scope and match ammo to fill the sniper role), it felt both longer and heavier than it actually was, and it was in fact pretty heavy already. It was also very hard on brass and the roller lock system is designed for very narrow ranges of recoil impulse and pressure curves. Too much recoil or too slow a powder and it unlocks with excessive chamber pressure, throws the brass into the next county, and leaves striations that are deep enough to render the brass non reloadable. I turned it into *a lot* more money than I paid for it.

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I still have a BM-59 along side my M1A and my M1 Garand and quite frankly if I needed a battle rifle I’d pick the BM-59. It’s as accurate as the M1A but much nicer to shoot. The muzzle device actually works to reduce recoil, the bipod is actually pretty practical and it’s a bit handier than the M1A.

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However for home defense, I used an AR-15 in 9mm - a braced pistol with an 8.3” barrel. It’s been superseded by an MP5. The advantage of a 9mm carbine or braced pistol with a 8-10” barrel is greatly reduced muzzle flash and muzzle blast (down around 117 dB compared to 150 dB for a 4” 9mm pistol) which makes it a lot less ear damaging in confined spaces.

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I have a few Mini 14s and they are great little rifles to have in the truck or for general purposes outdoors activities, but like the AR-15 in .223 the muzzle blast is atrocious indoors - on the order of 155 dB.

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I also own a few M1 carbines. They were designed as personal defense weapons and they still do that job pretty well.

Cool historical rifle to have, and heavy enough to offer an effective attitude adjustment with just a bump to the head.

Sent from my motorola one 5G using Tapatalk

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Slava Ukraini!

M1A are fantastic rifles.. for home defense, not so much... they shine in the 200-800 yard game... and they are not WWII in any way.. go with a PCC for home defense.. get a M1 Garand or M1 Carbine to pay tribute to your father... or maybe a trench shotgun to cover both.

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You’d need a good quality gun belt, and a large holster, but sure, why not!

I love these scenarios, and justifications on buying a gun that we want. Urban/neighborhood sniping, sounds good to me, get the gun!

I’ve got an M1a, really nice gun. I never shoot it, but it’s a nice gun. And .308 is a great round, much more punch than a 5.56. I actually like the AR platform, in .308, better for what you intend. And I also really like the Bullpup .308 platform, with a 1x8 scope, that’s an awesome setup.

I agree with many that a AR15/5.56 is a better all around choice, but like the .308 in addition to the 5.56 platform. Heck, I think a well armed homeowner should have both!! . Share pics when you get it/them...

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NRA Life Member

I have a Henry rifle that works wonderfully. I have handled and shot several others that guests brought to my range. I have never met an unsatisfied Henry owner.

The Cowboy action shooters have a whole different standard. When they say 'rapid fire' they are talking about a 'Chuck Connors' rate of fire and wear and tear on their equipment that the average shooter will never achieve. Watch them on utube. It's amazing.

Having said that The Ruger PC would be a better bet, especially paired with a pistol using the same magazines.

SXS is just an abbreviation for side by side, a traditional double barreled shotgun.

my deceased father in law, fought thru the pacific, gave me his immaculate '43 Garand, which he acquired many years ago from the DCM program. Not something I would reach for in a home invasion. But it is accurate, and if I really needed to reach out and touch someone, even if the assailant was down behind a car or concrete wall, for that I would use the en bloc "clips" with the black tip AP rounds he also he also gave me.

I think a home protection gun should be something easy to handle, not some long rifle unwieldy in a hallway or bathroom.

When I shoot my Garand at a rifle range, other shooters put their weapons down just to watch that battle tested rifle do what it was designed to do.

All the best... SF VET

Check your local gs to see if they have LEO turn in/ trade in shotguns. Local one near me has about 20 in stock every month for around,+ -, $400. As posted above use #8,#6,#4 shot for IN HOME. Depending on your skill with a pistol or revolver that would be first go to weapon. Any “Battle Rifle” would not be the solution as mentioned above, never know where the round will end up.
Gave my NM M-1A to my son earlier this year as no place to shoot and enjoy it, had it since late 70’s.