Buffalo Bore .380+P (100 gr) in Glock 42

The .380 is not my primary carry but this Glock 42 is in the deep concealment and hot weather rotation. This Buffalo Bore hard cast lead +P looks like a stout round. Picked up a box today. Saw a few posts about it prematurely locking the slide on Glock 42 but that does not appear widespread. I prefer reliable penetration to possible expansion. 1100 fps / 100 gr. Anyone have actual experiwnce with this round in the Glock 42?







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Have you chronographed it to verify that it actually comes close to 1100 FPS out of the 42?

I have not. But reviews on other websites claim that it is consistent / close out of a 42. Buffalo Bore usually has a realistic projection.


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Doesn't Glock state not to use lead ammo?

Last I saw, they only wanted jacketed ammo in their polygonal "rifled" barrels.

I have been using Precision One .380 +P in my Glock 42 and Kahr CW380. They load a jacketed XTP bullet and it works fine. Yes, I did contact Kahr and they said the CW380 was good to go with +P. I do not have a chronograph.

adwjc said:

Doesn't Glock state not to use lead ammo?

Last I saw, they only wanted jacketed ammo in their polygonal "rifled" barrels.

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From Buffalo Bore ammunition regarding their “hard cast” bullets: Hard Cast Bullets in Polygonal Barrels

And, FWIW, it’s nearly impossible to have reliable penetration and acceptable expansion with the .380 acp/ 9mm Kurtz round.
I run my G42 with the Precision One 90 grain XTP, the Underwood 65 grain Xtreme Defender and the Lehigh Defense 90 grain Xtreme Penetrator. I understand the limitations of the .380 as a self defense round and train with it accordingly. All three rounds are quite manageable in the soft shooting G42 platform.

There is really no such thing as a ".380 ACP +P" load as per SAAMI Specifications, ergo no pistol can truly be rated for Buffalo Bore's so-called .380 ACP +P loads, and that's the real issue with some of Buffalo Bore's overpressure ammo, if no firearms are factory rated for it, then how do you know it's safe to shoot? The short answer is, you don't... You just have to take Buffalo Bore's word for it.
Granted, I'm sure that Buffalo Bore isn't loading their ammo too much hotter than SAAMI Specs, as they'd obviously get sued into oblivion if their overpressure ammo was loaded hot enough to instantly turn a handgun into a hand grenade, not to mention that we'd all hear stories of how Buffalo Bore ammo blew up folks handguns. (Although I have heard a few reports of it causing the frame rails to crack on Ruger LCPs over time...) Regardless, it just doesn't seem like something you ought to load your handgun with, as it could very well damage it, and void the warranty in the process.

There was a short time when I myself was considering getting some Buffalo Bore .380 ACP +P ammo for my Walther PPK/S because it was one of the firearms they listed in their ammo tests, and I was seeking a hotter carry load because of increasing reports of wild predatory animal sightings in my residential area, but ultimately I decided against it because my PPK/S was already downright painful to shoot with Standard Pressure self-defense loads, nor was I willing to take their word for it that overpressure loads were really safe to shoot out of the straight blowback PPK/S.
Ultimately, I ended up just buying a cheap .40cal Smith & Wesson SW40VE and started carrying that, which is substantially more powerful than even Buffalo Bore's so-called .380 ACP +P ammo, yet entirely safe to shoot out of the pistol because it's actually rated for it.
On a side note, I'm glad that I did, as that's what turned me on to the .40 S&W cartridge, which I had previously avoided yet has since become my favorite semiautomatic pistol cartridge.

I have reached the conclusion that if I should ever find myself in need of a more powerful load, then it's better to just upgrade to a more powerful cartridge rather than start messing around with overpressure loads in attempt to turn a cartridge into something it's not.
So yeah, if .380 ACP isn't powerful enough to suit your purpose, then you should upgrade to a more powerful cartridge like 9mm Luger, which is even more powerful than Buffalo Bore's .380 ACP +P loads, yet still available in pistols of similar size/weight to your Glock 42. (Think of it as an excuse to buy a cool new pistol. )

I wonder how that load would feel coming out of my Seecamp?

With the 9mm model coming in not much larger...there's a hard why here for me.

forrestinmathews said:

With the 9mm model coming in not much larger...there's a hard why here for me.

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A yes and no here… whenever possible I say carry the biggest gun you can shoot well and carry. I’d take a full size 9mm over a compact pistol everyday, if I could. But there are times when a small compact pistol, like the G42 just works better. I have a GLOCK 17, a 19, a 43X, a 43 and the G42. And I’m comfortable carrying the G19 mostly… but again, mostly is not always.

I think he is referring to the TC in context, asking why carry a Glock 42 with Buffalo Bore's so-called ".380 ACP +P" loads when you can carry a Glock 43 in 9mm Luger?

If you doubted in your Glock 42s ability to adequately defend you, would you load it with overpressure ammo which could damage the pistol, or compromise and carry a bigger gun? There's the rub.

Nobody is questioning the handiness of a micro pistol, nor trying to talk anyone out of carrying one. We're basically just trying to talk the TC down from experimenting with overpressure .380 ACP loads which could damage the firearm and might not even cycle properly.

Most factory ammo for the .380 is loaded to pretty mild pressure levels like many other older ctgs. If you read the Handloader articles on the .380 you will be surprised at the velocities BP has achieved without exceeding std pressure level. I seriously doubt the BB load is loaded to pressure levels that will damage any sound .380.

Over and above reliable penetration and possible expansion, would be reliable operation... which you've called into question

The only way to be sure it will operate reliably, would be to test a volume of it in your specific gun, which leads to a major problem...

The polygonal rifling in a Glock barrel can not run hard cast lead, which is why your owners manual says to not run it. The lead will begin to gum up inside the rifling leading to unexpected high pressure situations. Combine that with Glock's notoriously deep and wide feed ramp causing a partially unsupported chamber, plus a very hot round, and your asking for a situation where your Glock blows up in your hand.

Do a YouTube search for Glock Kaboom and you'll get an idea if what that's like. Aside from a little blood and some burns, you'll have pieces of the gun that fly back towards the direction of your face. I don't want to sound like Ralphie's mother, but you'll shoot your eye out.

A Glock is not the way to go with a cast lead bullet.

However, your instinct to prioritize penetration is spot on because a lot of 380 JHP will expand early and dump too much energy too early and ultimately fail to penetrate enough. With 380 ACP, there are only a very few jacketed hollow points that deliver proper penetration. I strongly recommend Federal Hydra Shok 90 grain as your 380 defense load.

Against a 2 legged predator, with virtually any FMJ or hard cast lead in 380, you'll have an over penetration and a failure to transfer energy unless bone is hit. You could purchase an aftermarket barrel for your Glock that has lands and grooves for rifling, instead of the polygonal rifling, and maybe it will feed reliability, however there’s no point. You're better off with a proven round like Hydra Shok.

+P labels on ammo boxes do a better job at catching ammo shoppers then they do at stopping bad guys, just like with how most fishing lures are designed to catch fisherman at the store and are not designed to catch fish in the water.

Lucky Gunner published all kinds of terminal ballistics test data a while back. Ammo that does well in ballistics gel has proven to do well in real world situations.

https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

As you can see by the test results, 380 Hydra Shok is slow to expand, and even failed to expand in gel. In a more dynamic environment like a human body, expansion arguably would be greater.

You can see in the data that virtually every round that did expand in gel, failed to penetrate, or did the bare minimum of 12"

Whether or not you believe there's potential for problems in a Glock with hard cast lead, if an under-expanding standard pressure 380 hollowpoint over penetrates, what exactly is the point of +P hard cast 380?

It just seems like a solution that solves no problems and opens the door to entirely new problems.

380 ACP is exactly the kind of round where multiple, quick, and accurate shots on target would be necessary in a defensive situation. With that in mind, why would you introduce +P into the equation and cause more recoil?

Furthermore why would you introduce the potential (albeit small) of a catastrophic failure due to the polygonal rifling?

Fan of Underwood Ammo - 90 gr. XTP at 1000+fps
If you're using .380, not going to do much better in a non +P.
And if you really need more step-up, than why not go to a 9mm micro.

Another thing, a new Glock 42 can require some break-in to cycle properly, upper loads can help in that area.

With the loads themselves or even lead in a Glock barrel, it’s often about numbers. There’s a big difference between testing a handful, then loading for carry, compared to hundreds of rounds of cast lead.

Whatever Buffalo Bore advertises for velocity, likely won’t get there shooting out if a Glock 42. If it was me, I’d test a few magazines worth at the range then load & carry that load. If I was out for ‘range day’ I’d use cheaper loads for routine practice.

The first issue is defense ammo is that it must feed reliably in your firearm. Every time. The testing advice from Doc Roberts is 500 malfunction free rounds of your carry ammo. Doing that with BB would cost a lot more than most of us have.

One trick you could use is what Bill Allard did when he was on the NYPD stakeout squad back in the day: the first round loaded was chambered by hand with something a lot more difficult to feed; the rounds in the magazine were known to feed reliably. It is not a bad lesson if you think the BB round is what you need.

LCC said:

Fan of Underwood Ammo - 90 gr. XTP at 1000+fps
If you're using .380, not going to do much better in a non +P.
And if you really need more step-up, than why not go to a 9mm micro.

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I have run the Underwood 90 gr XTP through my G42 with no problems with reliability.
The G42 has a slightly longer barrel than many pocket 380's, so it likely does push out around 1000 fps;
Not advocating for 380 as a great self defense choice... but sometimes you gotta wear a speedo or bike shorts, ya know...

Anyone have actual experiwnce with this round in the Glock 42?
Getting back to your original question, I have not (and evidently no one else has either judging from the responses ). I handload a very similarly shaped 100 g. FP and shoot them in my LCP. The fastest I can safely get them to travel from the LCP averages 905 fps. I would be curious to know what the BB actual velocity is.

for the .380 95 gr FMJ. Period. That is what these guns were designed around. Shot placement is the key. Try to hit in the torso. If you feel the need shoot twice. Representing homicide defendants for the past 32 years and having reviewed numerous autopsy reports, I am amazed at the damage puny underpowered rounds like the .380 and .22 can do. As my clients for the most part utilized my services as a public defender, it stands to reason that if they can't afford a lawyer, they sure as hell can't afford 100 gr hard case Buffalo Bore plus p ammo for their .380's. They seem to make do very well with the WW white box range ammo. I think the street price for fmj .380 is a buck a round while 9mm and fawty go for $2 per round and that is high steppin'
Never have I felt undergunned with FMJ range ammo in my M&P 380.