Mouse Gun for Self Defense

I always invite others to seek out and view these sorts of videos because they show us in just a few frames what a thousand words cannot.
The gun used was a 5-shot .32 caliber revolver, and the defender put all five into the bad guy. Next time somebody tells you what a .32 can't do...believe them, or your own "lying eyes!"

Grandson Fights Grandfather Over Family Dispute - YouTube

On first impact the attacker ceased all further attacking motion - that's the definition of a "one shot stop."
When shot two impact the man's arms were already "defensive" as he began to turn away, and even as the last three hits landed, his body had lost all coordination as he fell.

In the course of my career, I literally saw more people shot than I can remember. I never saw a rifle or shotgun wound, but I saw handgun wounds with almost every caliber imaginable, in almost every part of the body. There were two indelible lessons I learned:

1. Shot placement is more important than caliber.

2. I don't ever want to be shot with ANYTHING.

Any caliber can be deadly! The whole concept of shooting a bad guy is to STOP THEM as fast as possible. Stop them from the attack, not necessarily to kill them. Larger calibers, faster bullets, better expansion all contribute to better and faster stops - it's just a percentages game. YES - shot placement is also key! That doesn't mean someone who was shot in a non vital organ area with a .22 short won't die hours later from bleeding out - but the idea is to stop them asap so they don't continue doing harm!

The video was taken down by YT and so I did not view it. Threads like this do come up from time to time and just because bad guys have died from .22, .25, .32, calibers mouse guns does not mean they are prudent to carry in most situations. Their only great attribute is size and light weight IMHO.

I've witnessed terrible accidents where people have walked away while driving cars with no air bags and no seat belts. I have also witnessed people driving new model cars with air bags, seatbelts and other safety equipment that have not fared so well. I've actually got a friend that went down on a motorcycle years back at about 55 mph. Aside from being a bit scraped up and in shock, he walked away. I also had another friend I used to ride with that went down on a motorcycle exiting a parking lot at only 12-15 mph after being cut off by a truck, slid on the road surface, slammed his head into the curb and died hours later. While he was wearing a helmet, it was not a DOT or SNELL rated one and did nothing to protect him. Had he been wearing the proper helmet he would have ridden his bike home!

So back to ballistics..... I want the highest percentage chance of accomplishing what I need to if that situation ever comes up. In my mind, the larger, more powerful guns and calibers give me a better change (percentage wise) than smaller ones. For those who tout how their shot placements are so good, remember, one can NEVER predict what is going to actually happen, when, where or how. While I am a huge proponent of practice and familiarity, we never know quite what the situation will be and how good shot placement we will be able to achieve at that particular second, if your hands are being attacked, have to shoot through a barrier or wall, etc. We just don't know! Yea, a .25 with you all the time beats the 44 mag you left in your safe, but there is a happy medium! While I am certainly not into carrying an L or N frame 357 Magnum (too powerful for populated areas, too heavy and too bulky for EDC / CCW) and I'm not into mouse guns either. I've settled on a 17.6 ounce Sig P365 (9mm) that rides in my pocket or on my hip daily. Never too big or heavy to have to leave home and powerful enough with enough capacity to get the job done if I ever had too. To me a sensible compromise that I have confidence in. I want to minimize the "luck factor".

While bullet placement is critical don’t confuse being lethal with stopping power. It will be of small comfort to your family and loved ones if your attacker dies 30 minutes after you do.

You hit the bad guy in just the right place in the chest with any caliber and he'll go down. You miss that "right place" by an inch, and that mouse caliber could be pretty useless. I'm not about to dump my 9mm and .45s for a .32.

I had no trouble viewing the video, just had to sign in to Youtube.

Its in Brazil, so maybe folks are limited to small calibers. That first round to the chest definitely turned the tide in Grandpa’s favor.

In my experience anything can work and anything can fail. In this case, that .32 worked very well indeed.

I carry a .32 when the mood hits me. No worries about it at all.

BSA1 said:

While bullet placement is critical don’t confuse being lethal with stopping power. It will be of small comfort to your family and loved ones if your attacker dies 30 minutes after you do.

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There was a situation exactly like that some years ago in suburban Baltimore. Robber enters gas station with a .357 Magnum revolver...gas station owner draws his .380 pistol and shoots robber...robber then kills gas station owner...robber then dies...

I am not and never have been a proponent of mouse guns. Now a days, there are just too many .380 and above caliber handguns that are very easy to carry and conceal with better sights, more capacity and much easier to shoot accurately, especially at any distance. Ken Hackathorn said that mouse guns are the perfect gun for the person who never plans to use it. Any gun is better than no gun but I often think of missed shots, multiple attackers and the possibility of having to reload in the case of a malfunction. I sometimes carry a 5 shot snubby but more often than not one of my bigger guns with better sights, more capacity etc.

Bill Lear said:

I always invite others to seek out and view these sorts of videos because they show us in just a few frames what a thousand words cannot.
The gun used was a 5-shot .32 caliber revolver, and the defender put all five into the bad guy. Next time somebody tells you what a .32 can't do...believe them, or your own "lying eyes!"

Grandson Fights Grandfather Over Family Dispute - YouTube

On first impact the attacker ceased all further attacking motion - that's the definition of a "one shot stop."
When shot two impact the man's arms were already "defensive" as he began to turn away, and even as the last three hits landed, his body had lost all coordination as he fell.

Click to expand...

Are you saying this video proves something?

IMHO, how any particular bullet interacts with a human body depends on a multitude of factors. Caliber, speed, expansion, penetration, what part of the body the bullet hits (vital organ or not) and other items such as what the person is wearing.

While shot placement is very very important, a shot could be placed in the correct vital area and just not penetrate enough to hit that organ. On the other hand, if a bullet just makes a clean hole in flesh, the bad guy could still have the stamina to cause so much more harm! So that is why its important to me to not only have great shot placement (if you can at the time) you need a bullet that can get the job done as well.

I think most folks here prefer a little more punch than possible with a mouse gun, but we need to also remember that not everyone has the financial resources that we may have. Sometimes you have to get by with what you can afford. That looked like it could have been the case for the guy in the video. Besides that, can you even imagine shooting your own grandson? What a tragedy!

Seems to me that everything is relevant and has a place.

When I'm out mowing my yard or just doing house chores around my kinda between suburban and rural home, I'm just fine with a NAA .22 in my pocket. It's convenient and certainly adequate for an aggressive dog, rabid fox, etc.

When out around my small town getting groceries in my small town, being just another J frame guy seems pretty adequate.

When I have to go into the big city, I tend to carry a full size weapon concealed. N frame revolver, full size Glock service pistol, etc.

A mouse gun to me is not useless, but it is clearly far from ideal. If I have it on me, I strive to be aware of whether another family member is available to get a long gun from the house, if there is an axe, hammer, pickaroon, etc. nearby.

I carry a mouse gun because I can carry it all the time. As in all the time, morning till night. I may switch to something else when going out but if I’m awake with pants or shorts on I will have at least my P32 in my pocket. I live in the country with coyotes and crack heads. During the day I wear just shy of a full suit into places that don’t like my kind. I love my wife and I love my daughter so I am obligated to come home. If I talk to 100 people with a ccw, or now being in a CC state I will bet good money less than 10-15% could produce their “suitable for concealed carry” piece on demand. It’s always well it’s in the truck, or my back hurt today, or I was just going to get milk so…..

Like Tuco say, if you’re going to shoot, shoot. Don’t talk.

somorris said:

I think most folks here prefer a little more punch than possible with a mouse gun, but we need to also remember that not everyone has the financial resources that we may have. Sometimes you have to get by with what you can afford. That looked like it could have been the case for the guy in the video. Besides that, can you even imagine shooting your own grandson? What a tragedy!

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Recently researched Federal Punch 22lr self defense ammunition. From what I read it has as much or more penetration than .25 or .32 ammo. Nickel coated flat nose 29 grain bullet and over 1,000 fps out of a 2" barrel. Worth looking at. There are excellent and reliable 22lr revolvers and pistols out there. I have a S&W 63 revolver and a Ruger SR22 pistol and would not not hesitate to carry with the Punch ammo if that was the only firearm I owned.

VaTom said:

Recently researched Federal Punch 22lr self defense ammunition. From what I read it has as much or more penetration than .25 or .32 ammo. Nickel coated flat nose 29 grain bullet and over 1,000 fps out of a 2" barrel. Worth looking at. There are excellent and reliable 22lr revolvers and pistols out there. I have a S&W 63 revolver and a Ruger SR22 pistol and would not not hesitate to carry with the Punch ammo if that was the only firearm I owned.

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Sounds like a gigantic lie. Weight and sectional density have always been the proven winners in terms of penetration in flesh, meaning that a 40 grain 22 bullet will out penetrate a 29 grain 22 bullet in 22 at the same energy.

In fact, a 29 grain bullet in 22lr, marketed for combat, sounds to be a gigantic gimmick that comes out of some marketing department with people who have no concern with those who might carry it and rely on it. People who think everyone just buys them to plink cans with.

How it could outdo 25 ACP or 32 ACP is questionable to unbelievable. And how cheap is a novelty "22 self defense round" compared to regular ball in a center fire alternative? You are probably better off with a center fire. 22lr's ONLY advantage is price for practice. Otherwise it is always the worse choice.

Stick to e reliable, well known, old fashioned 40 grain round nose that you can buy cheap and prove in your gun. If you want to take the 22lr route. Don't be selling the cow for magic beans.

As for mouse calibers, they can win fights. Just keep in mind that there are many real life situations where a bigger, more destructive bullet that penetrates deeper and more consistently will win a fight where a smaller bullet with less penetration and doing less effective damage will not. Sometimes bullets don't get to the heart of the matter, or fail to bleed something fast enough. Carry your mouse gun with confidence, but don't lie to yourself that"they are all the same".

A 22 rimfire with a 29 grain bullet and standard case is exactly the old 22 long. Not carrying either if there's any more realistic choice (unless I plan to never use the sidearm). The Punch promises 1,070 fps, Winchester long is 770 fps, while the CCI high velocity long is 1,215 fps.

Not a 9mm fan, but for a while in policing and occasionally contracting in places where there were real risks of needing a sidearm under existing ROD (the military has ROE, but their role is different) I've carried 9s and was happy to have one.

VaTom said:

Recently researched Federal Punch 22lr self defense ammunition. From what I read it has as much or more penetration than .25 or .32 ammo. Nickel coated flat nose 29 grain bullet and over 1,000 fps out of a 2" barrel. Worth looking at. There are excellent and reliable 22lr revolvers and pistols out there. I have a S&W 63 revolver and a Ruger SR22 pistol and would not not hesitate to carry with the Punch ammo if that was the only firearm I owned.

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I have a Bobcat and plan to do some testing with various types of “self defense” .22 LR, but it will be hard pressed to beat its .32 ACP Tomcat sibling. A 75 gr hard cast .32 ACP at 764 fps with 27” penetration in 10% ballistic gel.

There’s no expansion at all, and in fact the bullet looked pristine, except for the rifling marks. But that’s a .312” diameter 27” hole. That’s equivalent to a .22 LR bullet *immediately* expanding to 140% of its starting diameter and then penetrating 27”.


Based on what I seen in other people’s ballistic gel tests, Federal punch .22 LR does a pretty good job penetrating 12-14” in most short barrel handguns. But it doesn’t expand so it’s a 40% smaller hole limited to have the penetration distance. Fen if 12” is enough, it’s a smaller hole and a smaller wound channel.

The thing that can offset that is the higher rate of fire and the potential to create more wound channels in the same amount of time.

Tried mouse guns. Several as a matter of fact. Don’t like them. Don’t trust them. These days a small revolver can do it better than any mouse gun.

Just my opinion.

Bit of a digression but relevent to impact. Don, a sportsfishing captain at the federal port I patrolled during the early 70's, was known as a highly decorated Korean War Marine wounded badly at the Chosin Reservoir Battle.
One afternoon, ran into Don at the local pub, and after a couple of drinks asked him about Korea.
Don said his squad were pinned down and getting torn up by a machine gun nest, so he belly crawled as close as he could, then stood up and charged the nest wth a grenade, flipping it into the nest before hits took him down. Woke up in Japan a month later with ribs and guts missing, a Silver Star presentation while in bed, and two years of recuperation ahead. Surgeons told him he was a miracle survivor.
Then Don he lifted his shirt and turned before slippig it back down.
Ragged holes in his chest and stomach the size of quarters, exit caves on his back the size of lemons. Some years later a Sheriff friend who covered shooting investigations told me he'd seen men killed by .22's, and men who survived multiple rounds of large caliber, and he attributed it to the varying degrees that some folks can handle shock, or not. Probably as good a reason as any.