Rethinking micro 9mm’s

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chev37s

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I am curious if anyone else is thinking about this.

I have the original optic ready hellcat, an equalizer, and a shield plus. All 13 plus 1 with a spare 15 rnd mag. I have a range in my backyard and shoot 18 to 20 yards. I like to practice at this distance and want to go further but need to do some work on my range to make that happen. I have been trying to shoot these guns and group consistently but have been struggling. The best is the equalizer and shield and the most inconsistent is the hellcat, but I have shot good groups with the laser on it so I know the gun is capable and might be my eyes and / or the sights.I shoot at an 11 x 8.5 inch paper with a square drawn in the middle I can keep them all on the paper but have a lot of problems keeping them grouped in or around the square. Ok for self defense but not where I want to be. For me I think it’s the small size and small grip that is making me inconsistent. I took out my 2.0 compact 9 with the four inch barrel, a psa dagger compact, and recently since I have a bunch of 45’s loaded, I took out my Xd mod 2 45 subcompact and a four inch Kimber pro carry. All of these guns shot much better groups and are in or close around the square in the middle of the paper and it restored my confidence with my shooting ability. I was thinking it was due to being not able to see as good as I used to or maybe I just couldn’t shoot as well as I did in years past but after this experiment I think it’s just the smaller gun and grip size. My point, it might be easier to carry these micro size guns but at what point do you pick being able to hit exactly what you’re aiming at vs being ok accuracy with easy to carry? I am now looking at going back to what I can hit with and shoot well and not carrying due to just the smaller size and comfort. For example, the psa is 15 plus 1 capacity plus a 15 rnd spare and only slightly heavier overall than all three micros. I carry iwb behind the right hip and have no problem concealing it compared to the micros but it is a bit bulkier obviously.
 
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Yeah, not exactly a hot take that larger pistols (within reason) are easier to shoot, or service sized pistols would be on the way out. At a minimum you've got a longer sight radius, longer barrel, longer and (generally) wider grip, and more weight. For a pistol you can carry as easily as a J frame, keeping all rounds on an 8x11.5 paper at 20 yards sounds fine to me. I used to carry larger/heavier pistols, and found that lots of times the annoyance would just make me leave them at home in circumstances I'd otherwise be carrying. Think it's all a question of how important that extra bit of performance is to you compared to the downsides of carrying something larger.
 
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I carry an EMP much of the time. This is a dedicated 9mm frame 1911 platform. Single-stack. Fits my hand BEAUTIFULLY and I shoot it tolerably well. It carries well. In the real world pretty much everything is a risk-benefit or cost-benefit analysis. I shoot my Government model .38 Super better, but it is harder to hide and harder to carry. I am comfortable with my decision, it is right FOR ME for my circumstances. That is what counts.
 
Eighteen to twenty yards shooting distance? I think that is great!...but probably the most realistic scenario with which we might be presented is a much closer distance.

Think about it. Realistically, we probably won't be faced with being involved in a massive firefight with fifteen or twenty insurrectionists. Nope. A more probable situation is where we have to go to the grocery store late at night to pick up a quart of milk and are confronted by a couple of toughs in hoodies demanding our wallet. In such a scenario, we're probably going to be spitting distance from the perpetrators. This is exactly what these little micro guns were invented for. You simply tell them that nobody needs to get hurt and that you're reaching for your wallet. Then you pull out the little pistol, and, if you choose, you empty all 15 rounds into the perp's belly button. No need to really aim. Just point and shoot.
 
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I agree with the realistic distance being much shorter and the scenario you describe is probably what would happen in most cases. I think I will move up a bit and work on my draw and shoot technique some more! I am just bothered by a few attacks that I have read about. The Indiana mall is one but the one that gets me was from a St. Louis shooting at a branch of the company I used to work for. There was a workplace shooter that was met in the parking lot by a concealed carry holder that had a chance to stop him, but missed all six shots, I assumed a small 380 but don’t know for sure. He played dead if I remember correctly and survived but the shooter went in and did kill some. It’s been a long time ago but it stuck with me to be able to hit with what you carry, and also to carry at all possible times.
 
Your deep thinking on this subject is admirable. Unfortunately you are in the same situation as many others. There is no definite answer. The gun you can and will actually carry sun up to sun down day after day is far different from the one needed in the scenarios you described. Regardless of internet pictures of duty sized guns with high cap mags and red dots and flashlights being carried in being Carried in gym shorts and T shirts. ��
You have to pick what is the best option for you and be proficient with it. Be mindful that this may have to change over time. The reason why smaller and lighter guns are so popular is because the people who used to carry 1911s and Model 19 Smiths are getting older and those just can’t be used everyday as time is catching us all. I will always lean towards the with me all the time option even if it means 10 yards is max. I’m getting older and my past bad decisions have finally caught up with me. My ideal gun is my P32.
 
Until recently (retired in January) my duty gun was a full size M&P 2.0 9mm , and my go-to off-duty carry was a Sig P365XL. Both with RDS (Holosun). I was able to pass my agency duty qualification with basically the same scores with both guns, with the P365XL being slightly slower than the M&P. I saw the same results with dynamic training drills (multiple targets, movement, reloads)... the Sig would get there but was usually off the M&P times by a couple of seconds. Essentially, there was very little reduction in capability, and a massive reduction in size and weight. I don't know how Sig pulled it off, but the P365XL shoots like a much bigger gun.

I also own a P365X (XL grip with short slide) and a P365 (short grip, short slide). Each of these takes another little bite out of speed and accuracy, trading off for size and weight. The XL is still my go-to, but as the weather warms, the X and the P365 will work into the rotation more as I'm willing to trade size/weight for capability under a lot of circumstances, especially now that I'm retired.

I guess what I'm saying is that not all "micro 9s" are equal for everyone. Try everything you can get your hands on, and make a choice based on your needs, and your personal "power vs. weight" matrix. I had a Shield prior to my P365s, and as soon as I shot the P365, the Shield got sold.

I also have a 442... it's 6.5oz lighter than the P365, but no smaller and much harder to shoot. Not to mention the 5 shots vs. 11 without a reload. It still gets the nod under certain circumstances however.

Carefully consider the mission, evaluate your skillset, then choose the appropriate hardware.
 
Congratulations on your retirement! I retired almost a year ago and it’s the best thing I ever did. I was thinking of getting an sig sometime and if I do I will definitely check out the XL. At the time I picked the hellcat because it felt better but I don’t care for the sights for the shooting I do. I sold a gen 1 shield and picked up a shield plus for very little added cost so that was pretty much a swap. The equalizer, I bought on a whim and it has the safety, which I don’t normally like but it kinda operates like a 1911 so it’s not too bad. I do like the trigger on it and it shoots pretty good. I think I will probably run each of what I have and pick one that works best for me and see what happens. Thanks to all for the feedback!
 
I retired in November after 38 years with the NYPD one of my carry guns is a first gen shield. I love that thing. My always gun is a 642 with the lock (not worried about the lock) got it in August and already put 1500 rds through it. That gun is always with me in addition to what ever else I might have on me.
 
I have done quite a bit of shooting with my 442 . I practice multiple target drills , failure drills etc , all timed . I use my own reloads , std 38 spl loads and I have to say I don't notice the recoil as I am so focused on the drill and time . I have found it quite accurate and enjoyable to shoot . I need more practice drawing from a holster . Regards Paul
 
Since you are having problems shooting the small guns accurately, spend some time ry firig. Concentrate on dropping the hammer/striker without disturbing the sught alignment. Don't worry much about drawing for this as you are trying to improve trigger control.Draw practice can be a separate endeavor.
Use a light switch or something to aim at - don't use the TV.
100 to 500 snaps a day would be good.
 
The G26 is as small as I want to go and after 25 years no need to rethink it. Shoots as good as any full size 9mm and never jams with 1000's of rds through it. And back up mag is a G17 mag with 17 shots. Looked at the Sig Kool Aid and decided it not made as well and shoots worse for me. G26 to the end for me.
 
Carry guns are to be comforting, not comfortable. It can only be comforting if I know I can hit with it!
right now my EDC is a CZ PCR IWB at 3:30 it replaced my shield which was easier to carry but I shoot the CZ better which is more comforting.
 
My "Goldilocks" gun for the past 30 years has been some version of the S&W 3913/14. Not too big ,not too small......7 or 8+1 easy to conceal and easy to shoot well!

One or two spare mags carry easily between the wranglers and belt or in a horizontal belt pouch.
 
Dry firing is something that I really never did much, but that might just help with what I’m having trouble with. I know it’s the smaller grip and I think it’s my support hand that’s causing me to pull the shots. I am also trying to use these micros as target guns and need to work more on combat shooting. Closer and multiple targets instead of trying to bullseye shoot them. I am going to work on my backyard range this spring so I can set up three or four targets and work on engaging them back and forth. It’s kinda limited due to being on a hillside and I need to move some dirt around so I have more target area as well as a level place to stand. I also agree with jeeps. My Xd 45 sub compact is similar size wise to the micros but much wider. I shot it as good as the full-size guns. Thanks again for the input!
 
I see the Micro 9's such as the Sig P365, SA Hellcat, etc. as self defense EDC CCW guns. They are easy enough to shoot, accurate and reliable for this purpose and I like the fact that they are so small, light and easy to conceal yet still carry 11 plus rounds in them. I have not and would not add any accoutrements to them either - don't need lasers, red dots or lights at SD distances and I keep my home dimly lit with 3W LED equivalent night lights so I can see what is happening even in the dead of night.

For target shooting, competition, hunting etc. I do not use a CCW gun and have other guns much better suited for those purposes.
 
Two very important things in your combat practice.

1. Find a weapon/grip that has a proper alignment with your hand/arm. Just like
pointing your finger at a spot on the wall.

2. Set your grip before you draw.

If you chose the right weapon you will always hit center mass at a reasonable combat distance. For me, a double stack Glock is a sure miss way to the right. Been retired 21 years and have cataracts and arthritis. Doesn't matter, I have never shot under a 95 % on the LEOSA qualifications with my 442 no lock. I could say the same thing about my G-42 but that striker fired stuff makes me nervous. J frames fit me. Stick with what works, what you know, what doesn't make you nervous.

Beware of the man with one gun, he probably knows how to use it.
 
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