Carry and home gun for a lady

I'm a firm believer that novice shooters who aren't going to invest significant time with their firearm are best served by revolvers.

Revolvers are simple to load, simpler to unload. No worries about "is a round chambered?" Cleaning is simpler as well, no slide to remove.

I suspect this firearm will be for range and home defense rather than a CCW.

That said, I suggest you and your lady friend take a look at the NRA Women Ladies Pistol Project 4 results that also comments of the three previous project results. The Projects' firearms include revolvers too.

The S&W M&P Shield 9 EZ and the Walther PDP Compact took top honors in project 4. These were both new models for the brands that hadn't been release before the previous competition.

I believe the Walther PDP-F series should be considered for two reasons. First, your wife's experience with the P22. Second, Walther designed the F series for medium and small hand shooters that provides great ergonomics. IIRC, the F-Series was never in a competition because of its release date.

Results for the most recent Project 5 are due out February 2024 in video form. Watch for them.

Both Project 4 pistols and the PDP-F would be good options as they are all touted as minimal recoil effect pistols.

ISCS Yoda said:

I finally convinced my wonderful girlfriend (is lady friend a little too weird to say?) that she needs a gun that is "more" than the Walther P-22 that I gave her years ago.

So, like I said, it's a fun topic, toss out some ideas for me!

Gracias!

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I think you answered the question yourself. Walther P-22 is good enough for her.

BTW, since you gave her the P-22 years ago. How many rounds have she put down range. 1000? 2000? 5000+

URIT said:

That said, I suggest you and your wife take a look at the NRA Women Ladies Pistol Project 4 results that also comments of the three previous project results. The Projects' firearms include revolvers too.

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I view these "experiments" with a jaundiced eye. In a stressful situation, will the novice shooter remember to rack the slide if they store the gun unloaded? What about FTFs or FTEs? Accidentally hitting the mag release under stress?

Two or three items in the original post caught my attention.

1) I've convinced. This indicates the project is your idea. If you want it to have legs, the final choice should be something she wants on her own.

2) Walther PP22 I gave her years ago. Does she shoot it regulalrly? Does she like shooting it? Is she comfortable with it? If the answer to the last two are yes, then a Big Brother to it (like the PPS?) could be a good second. Already knows the system - just need to get used to the different trigger, recoil and racking forces.

3) Home Defense (from title). Concealability and carry comfort are lower importance in the house or apartment. No need to go smaller pistol with a larger caliber unless that is what what she shoots well.

So number one I'd try to find something she finds enjoyable and wants to go to the range or events with. And number two, failing that, find something she can operate well without lots of additional practice


And since you asked for entertaining responses (that may provide ideas)

[ame]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itRNJ3SmEYE[/ame]

scooter123 said:

Keep some simply Physics in mind. Note this is something that is TOTALLY ignored by many males purchasing firearms for a woman.

1) Lighter guns produce more perceived recoil than heavier guns.

(2) Guns with stronger recoil will have heavier recoil springs than guns with lighter recoil.

I personally have to keep these rules in mind when selecting what I'll be taking to the range for an outing. Because I have Arthritis in both thumbs and the radial head of both wrists. This means that a 1911 in 45 ACP is at my absolute limit for wracking the slide if the hammer is down and a bit painful to shoot. On the other hand my 9mm 1911 is a pure pleasure to shoot and it's one of the easiest slides of any of the guns I own. Speaking of Revolvers my model 36 is tolerable with some big fat Hogue rubbers on it but with those original postage stamps grips "rapid fire" ain't gonna happen considering it takes a full second or more to re-establish a proper grip after each shot.

My suggestion for a handgun for a shooter who is recoil sensitive and a bit lacking in experience is a 380 semi or 32 caliber revolver. Yeah, neither caliber is not a "man stopper" but in Fact and Science neither is the 45 ACP. What actually stops an assailant is is a well placed shot. So, what one chooses to shoot is vastly less important than getting a pistol that someone will actually enjoy shooting. Because Practice is critical for gaining and maintaining the ability to shoot well.

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I’d qualify number 2 with the difference between blow back and locked breech. As noted above in my post a .380 Kimber Micro using a delayed recoil locked breech design will feel like it recoils the same as a blow back operated PPK/S even though the Kimber weighs half as much.

I also agree with you on the caliber issue.

The .380 ACP is (finally) gaining more acceptance in the US. However, I’ve found in the course of ballistic gel testing that the .32 ACP 60 gr XTP in a 3.9” barrel PP will have a muzzle velocity around 1050 fps and penetrate 12” of ballistic gel with reliable expansion. That’s the same performance you get from the .380 ACP with a 90 gr XTP bullet at around 1000 fps.

You get an extra round in the magazine with the .32 ACP.

The .32 ACP also has much lower recoil making it much more friendly for a recoil sensitive shooter, but more importantly it allows for much faster follow up shots and for most shooters better accuracy in rapid fire and in particular double taps.

When I compare a .380 ACP PPK/S to a .32 ACP PP, and consider all the factors it’s really a toss up.

There are a number of .32 ACP pistols I don’t mind carrying when compact size is a consideration, including the Walther PP, the FEG APK7S, the Beretta Model 81 (a 12 round double stack pistol) and the Beretta Tomcat.

Since you are taking here to the range anyway make sure to take a modest assortment of this and that, revolvers and autos, small and medium size, and see what fits her hand. That will be a major criteria. How will she carry it? On body carry has different parameters than off-body carry. What sort of clothing does she typically wear? It all makes a difference but something that fits her hand and that she can physically operate will be a very important, probably the most important, consideration in a wise decision.

S-W4EVER said:

I bought a gently used Beretta 86 for the woman I was courting (and am now married to). Tip-up barrel, .380 ACP, blued steel and walnut. Pretty easy to make it work.

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My ex-wife was a cop. With a revolver was #2 in her Police Academy class of 40. One year #3 in the State in the Women’s Division.

What is she packing the last 30 years? Beretta 25 ACP with the tip-up barrel. Most men don’t like that feature but women who are savvy on handguns love them. I knew several women who carried those Berettas in 22, 25 or 32 ACP.

max503 said:

Why should she be different than anyone else, different from any of us? Take her to the range with a variety of guns and see what she gravitates towards. Let her decide.

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The biggest mistake guys make is deciding what their girlfriend or wife should get and or making suggestions of what they should get.

If she doesn’t like it, she won’t shoot it.

If it doesn’t fit her well, she won’t shoot it well.

The cartridge it fires is far less important than just having a defensive hand gun when it’s needed. Estimates are all over the place but the highest estimates average aaround 1.4 million defensive handgun uses per year.

Those estimates inevitably get reduced to figures around 40,000 per year in government published studies as that number conforms with data from police reports, etc.

The massive difference between those two numbers are that the vast majority of the time a defensive handgun is effective without ever being fired.

At the least intrusive and reportable level, having a handgun, and having the situational awareness that often goes with it frequently prevents an attack in the first place. For example the wood be victim with a concealed handgun sees the potential assailant at a distance and makes eye contact. That by itself removes the lament of surprise and is often sufficient for an assailant to choose a softer target. And, if the would be victim is not displaying the level of fear the assailant expects, that sets off red flags in smarter criminals who again seek a softer target. Those numbers are impossible to measure even with a survey as the potential victim never knows for sure if they were in fact targeted.

Beyond that if the assault progresses, the intended victim drawing the weapon is more often than not sufficient to put an assailant to flight as they really don’t want to get shot. In some cases the prospective victim doesn’t have time to complete the draw before the assailant flees. Research data consistently shows this account for 70-80% of survey reported defensive handgun uses.

None of those instances have a high likelihood hood of being reported to the police, particularly in jurisdictions that are even remotely anti-gun.

Then you have the cases where a firearm is fired. However only a fraction of those result in the assailant being hit before fleeing. I suspect many of them are not reported either.

In those cases where the assailant is hit, about half will flee or surrender rather than risk being shot again, even if the hit itself is not incapacitating. Most of those are probably reported and included in the 40,000 estimate.

Cartridge wise, and magazine capacity wise, that leaves a very small percentage of defensive handgun uses where cartridge or capacity matter at all. That percentage is probably under 5% of all defensive handgun uses, and in the vast majority of those 6 rounds is more than enough to resolve the situation.

And yet way too many people make defensive handgun decisions based on what is probably a 1% worst case scenario. There’s nothing really wrong with that, until you consider that many of those individuals stop carrying their duty sized pistol and two spare magazines on their bat belt due to back pain or other convenience related issues and up making that quick trip to the local stab and grab for a pint of ice cream unarmed.

@BB57 has great points.

As a cop I have been at a variety of Crime Scenes. Bad guys do not want to be shot. And good people do not want to shoot other people regardless of their intentions.

Professional Training is the best plan for anyone who owns firearms especially if they made be in a Self Defense situation.

My thoughts.....
Your idea, your perfect gun for her....
Is not her idea. Not "her perfect gun" for her. She won't carry.
Did she say she needs a gun different than the .22 you gave her years ago?
She has to want to carry. She must decide what gun she needs to carry. Or she won't carry any gun.
Listen to her needs, not your wants.
Lots of good advice in the above replies.

Those I know are allergic to recoil. I downloaded some 38 spec (LIGHT powder and LIGHT bullets). Am considering having her try one of those old goofy H&R’s in 32 S&W. Don’t laugh. Nobody volunteers to get shot with 32 S&W.

It depends on the lady. There are so many variables that it has to be that way. When I was teaching shooting to none-LE people in my college classes, that was the basis of my advice. So once these ladies had completed the class my advice to them was that, since they now had the basic skills, to try as many different handguns as possible so they could make the choice based on their individual needs and preferences.

My wife is a skilled and competent shooter. When we first started going together she decided that my Walther PPKS was her preference. That little pistol was completely reliable. When I got my Glock 26 she tried it and decided she wanted one. She now has one of her own, and is deadly with it. Time has passed and now the Glock 43 is available, but not in CA. She has fired one and would prefer it to her Glock 26 as it is smaller and lighter. But that is not going to happen in CA, so she carries her 26.

She is the one who has made these decisions. More important, she is completely confident in the decisions. For EDC (home protection is pretty much, as much as is humanly possible, a non-issue where we live) and the fact that entry into our home is neither quick nor easy, so what she has chosen is the best for her.

But that is only for her. The other women in our tiny community who I have worked with, trained, and coached, all prefer small revolvers, either J frame S&W (with the Hogue Monogrip based on my advice) or the Ruger SP101.

My experience has made it completely clear to me is that it has to be up to the lady.

As long as she chooses. Must be able to reach the controls. Operate the slide if it has one, manage the recoil(mostly training on that one), willing to carry, enjoy shooting. Nobody else can choose all that for her. JMHO.

My wife is adverse to recoil, but enjoys shooting 22 LR. She tried a steel K frame with light.38 loads but didn't like it. I bought a 380EZ hoping she would try it but never did. She settled on a SW 317 and likes it. She also has a Henry 22 rifle and a .410 shotgun to use around home and the farm.

Y'ALL ARE WONDERFUL!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, since you gave her the P-22 years ago. How many rounds have she put down range. 1000? 2000? 5000+

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None as I recall and I don't shoot that many rounds annually anymore, either. The whole point of this exercise is to get her to the range with a larger caliber than a .22 since she is smart enough to watch the news and realize the self defense issues that have arisen across the country mandate being prepared.

We tinkered with some of my guns today, in the house only, nothing loaded, etc. A little dry firing and slide racking. The "like the way they handle" winners were two of my 9mm pistols, my Walther CCP and my S&W 6906.

So we shall see. Much obliged everyone!!!!

noonster said:

Those I know are allergic to recoil. I downloaded some 38 spec (LIGHT powder and LIGHT bullets). Am considering having her try one of those old goofy H&R’s in 32 S&W. Don’t laugh. Nobody volunteers to get shot with 32 S&W.

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I have some arthritis. 38 wadcutters are a joy. 170g 357's out of the same gun HURT.

Funny this article came up since my wife has been thinking about carrying recently.

My wife is small framed and shoots her Smith 317 very well but wants something with more stopping power. She doesn’t have the strength to rack a slide especially in a panic situation and is recoil sensitive. Yesterday the topic came up again so I started pulling revolvers from the safe. We quickly concluded a 38 was the way to go and after dry firing and operating several guns she liked the weight of my M37 but since she’s recoil shy I discouraged that. At the end of the day she felt my Colt Cobra (new model) might be the ticket. It’s six rounds, small enough to carry but heavy enough to tame recoil wit rubber grips. I need to see how she feels about my 66-2 2.5” but think she’ll favor the Cobra. I showed her my 640 no dash, 3” King Cobra, M37 and 3” Python.

I ordered some 105grain polymer coated bullets and I’m going to load some light loads. If she deals well with that I’ll load a little heavier and then work her up to a 125 grain HP and see how she does.

I want to let her sclimate to something new and not overwhelm her. It just takes one bad experience and then you have to start over at a later time. If it comes down to her carrying a 22 then that’s better than nothing at all.

No one likes to be shot with anything..............

Barbara has a S&W 2" 10 and a 4" 15

The more I've thought about it the more I'd thinking about taking her out with the .32 PPK/s

You might consider a j frame in 32 mag.

6 rounds and less recoil than 38 special.

Smith and Wesson's new centennial is worth looking at.