Apex Duty/Carry spring kit

not sure if this is correct place to post this......don't know if there is any interest in this topic, but some may find it informative.

after putting quite a few rounds through my 432 UC .32 H&R Magnum, i decided to install the Apex spring kit [had a qualified gunsmith install]. kept all original parts so it can be changed back to original. i fired a box of Magtech semi-jacketed hollow point. had light primer strikes in most of each cylinder fired. second strike, or 3rd, would not ignite.

decided to put a box of Hornady Critical Defense down range. only fired 3 cylinders due to approaching thunder storm. no light strikes. am enclosing picture of the primer strikes. will put another box through it, but first box was encouraging.

i really like the revolver, but going to need alot of range time before carrying. my accuracy with Jframes is mediocre at best.

I’ve had that kit in my Jframe 638 and my son’s 442 for years now. I’ve had zero issues with lightstrike or failure to fire. I know some primers are “harder” than others. Perhaps that first box used a harder primer?

If that is a newer box of Magtech ammo, it could easily be loaded with S&B primers. They are known to be "harder" and may have issues with lighter hammer strikes.

I also added apex j frame kit to a s&w 360J 357 mag for my wife . What a change , 2lb 6oz sa pull and 7lb 8oz da trigger pull and 100% reliable ignition .

For a carry revolver I am very picky since when I started as a cop we carried revolvers only.

One of my Academy classmates decided he needed a lighter trigger pull so he put a spring kit in. So when he had to shot a knife armed robbery suspect he had to 'pistol whip' him into compliance since his revolver would not fire. Fortunately he was significantly larger than the suspect and just suffered minor cuts.

In a real shooting your adrenaline kicks in and the trigger pull weight does not matter. Keep your revolver cleaned and properly lube and you will do fine.

For any J frame that will be used for self defense or any other serious purpose, my mantra is to never reduce the factory springs or install any kit. I may smooth the hammer spring strut if it is rough. If the inside of the rebound slide is rough I will likewise smooth it. That's it for me.

I don't run Magtech ammo myself, due to issues like mentioned by other posters. For SD use, only quality mainline factory ammo in my J frame.

Now in a range-only gun, I may dabble with actions and ammo.

SGT ROCK 11B said:

For a carry revolver I am very picky since when I started as a cop we carried revolvers only.

One of my Academy classmates decided he needed a lighter trigger pull so he put a spring kit in. So when he had to shot a knife armed robbery suspect he had to 'pistol whip' him into compliance since his revolver would not fire. Fortunately he was significantly larger than the suspect and just suffered minor cuts.

In a real shooting your adrenaline kicks in and the trigger pull weight does not matter. Keep your revolver cleaned and properly lube and you will do fine.

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Could be this "pistol whipper " did not test his spring change well before hand or just screwed something up but who really knows ! Maybe the spring kit he used was the problem or was it some coil trimming ?? But you and the rest of us may never really know , right .

In my wifes case the 13lb + something unknown da trigger pull weight was more than she could deal with and keep some amount of control when shooting .

For the OP's local "qualified local gunsmith " or community collage gunsmiths real skill levels can vary greatly too . Some become pretty good some not worth trusting .

Back in the revolver days, anyone who altered anything inside their issued S&W without the work being done by the factory or department armorer faced suspension. That included failure caused by lack of proper cleaning.

hardluk1 said:

Could be this "pistol whipper " did not test his spring change well before hand or just screwed something up but who really knows ! Maybe the spring kit he used was the problem or was it some coil trimming ?? But you and the rest of us may never really know , right .

In my wifes case the 13lb + something unknown da trigger pull weight was more than she could deal with and keep some amount of control when shooting .

For the OP's local "qualified local gunsmith " or community collage gunsmiths real skill levels can vary greatly too . Some become pretty good some not worth trusting .

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A Professional Trigger Job like on my PPC revolvers were good to go for 1000s of rounds.

A Amateur Trigger Job may be good for 50 rounds, maybe five rounds and sometimes none. That is why we had mandatory qualification every two months. Serial Number was odd number you Qualified in odd months and even Serial Numbers in even months.

hardluk1 said:

In my wifes case the 13lb + something unknown da trigger pull weight was more than she could deal with and keep some amount of control when shooting .

Click to expand...

A revolver is not the best choice for everybody.

Being a cop in Los Angeles I have been to lots of shootings both by cops and citizens as well as bad guys.

Professional Training makes a huge difference in a actual shooting because it is more about "Mindset" than guns, bullets and such.

SGT ROCK 11B said:

For a carry revolver I am very picky since when I started as a cop we carried revolvers only.

One of my Academy classmates decided he needed a lighter trigger pull so he put a spring kit in. So when he had to shot a knife armed robbery suspect he had to 'pistol whip' him into compliance since his revolver would not fire. Fortunately he was significantly larger than the suspect and just suffered minor cuts.

In a real shooting your adrenaline kicks in and the trigger pull weight does not matter. Keep your revolver cleaned and properly lube and you will do fine.

Click to expand...

I had to use my duty revolver more than once during my career and would NEVER change the factory springs. Things go down so fast all you have time to do is shoot. You will not notice how hard the trigger pull is and you won’t hear a thing.

While I am not opposed to lightening and smoothing an action of a target only pistol by changing springs, strain screws, etc. I do leave my carry guns (revolver or semi-auto) as it came from the factory. I will usually shoot the gun enough that it does its own "action job" by simply smoothing the parts out. If there is a bur, nick or rough spot then fine I'll address that, but I leave all the stock parts and springs intact. You'd be surprised at just how much of a great action job shooting 5,000 or so will do!

BTW, the super stiff mag springs also get broken in after a few thousand rounds. I know! Some of my Micro 9 (P365) mags were a bear to load to capacity. Now, just a bit stiff but doable without an Uplula loader if necessary.

SGT ROCK 11B said:

A revolver is not the best choice for everybody.

Being a cop in Los Angeles I have been to lots of shootings both by cops and citizens as well as bad guys.

Professional Training makes a huge difference in a actual shooting because it is more about "Mindset" than guns, bullets and such.

Click to expand...

Years ago revolvers had better trigger pulls but companies also had folks that could fit parts and tune them . Today there far more drop in parts and you get what you get !! I had a s&w model 10 5" that was a local issue to a deputy and later sold to him when handguns were upgraded to semi autos . He was a neaghbor and shooting buddy and offered to sell me that model 10 in the mid '80's but after 10 years shooting and hunting with both 1911's and dw revolvers I really had no use for it but it was a good buy price wise . Youngest daughter has it now . I also bought a '90's taurus 85ss as an occasion carry handgun . Great snubby but never took to snubby's for CC . Great stock trigger as good as the best s&w custom shop work but it ended up being used as a training tools for our girls and friends that wanted to CC and used in the classes .

We do not carry revolvers for personal defense but we do hunt with them and shoot them occasionally for fun . All family members CC semi auto handguns . My first CC was a colt officers acp a gunsmith bought and tuned a bit for HO reliability but a few years later I changed to a lw commander in 45 auto for CC . I also keep a 40sw as a carry option from'90 on . With the years adding up and me slowing down I started to carry on the road or in big city's I moved to a 40sw double stack and bought an early m&p 4.25 full size with a ts in 40sw with some trigger group upgrades over time .

I have had " professional training " back in '88 and always had a range at home . I can tell you hunting hogs as a walk and stalk handgun hunter can also improve your first shot accuracy ,
reaction times along with follow up shots while moving as needed . You also need to know where cover is like getting a tree between you and a 200lb plus hog and there cutters that run at you .

Honestly , for me a revolver for carry is only an option if semi auto become outlawed .

I have jumped onto the plastic fantastic bandwagon for the time being. With the the way the world is going and additional church security responsibilities i want as many rounds on me as possible so it deletes the revolvers from the rotation for the foreseeable future

So you have fired approximately 68 rounds through your freshly modified revolver. Of those rounds, you had light primer strikes among the first 50 (Magtech). The rounds that wouldn't fire, didn't fire even with multiple hits. Your Hornady rounds functioned 100%.

I don't pretend to be an expert, nor do I stay at the holiday inn.

Your posted picture of the Hornady ammo, shows what appears to be consistently centered and consistently deep primer hits. At least to my uncalibrated old eyes.

Do you have pictures of the Magtech ammo that failed to fire? I'd be interested in what their primers look like.

Is it safe or possible to try the rounds that didn't fire in another revolver? I don't think we have eliminated a possible ammo issue yet.

Did your gunsmith test fire the revolver before they returned it to you? Did you ask them to?

I think the best course of action at this point is to continue with your plan to fire different ammo through the revolver IO determine if it's the revolver or the ammo.

Once this is sorted, I'd be interested in your opinion of the difference between the stock action and the apex action.

enclosing a picture of light strikes plus magtech primers that fired succesfully. you'll notice a few light dimpled primers that did fire. the light strike cartridges [4] are to the far left.

when i have a chance i'll try the 4 light strike cartridges in my Ruger LCRX. i didn't ask gunsmith to test fire gun.....that is my job.

i really like the 432 UC. just need more range time. i am going to reload saved cases this winter. makes alot of sense as i have most everything needed to reload, except dies.

In the 70's we all carried wheelguns. Our department issued model 15's, or we could carry our own model 14's. The only internal modifications allowed (per letter from S&W) were removing the trigger stop, and cutting a couple of coils from the rebound spring. And cutting the coils was soon stopped!
We polished the sides of the hammer, trigger, and rebound and called it good. Strain screw was always as tight as it would go. Never had any misfires. I will never lighten any springs. Just my opinion.

Another long retired geezer cop here. My first fifteen years was carrying a mod.10. Modifications? A dab of nail polish on the front sight and maybe grip panels. But you had better turn in the gun with original grips.

It's really simple. There are duty guns and off duty self defense guns. You do not mess with those. All the rest are range toys. You want to build a range toy, a race gun? Fine, but keep it off the street and most definitely out of the courtroom.

I've been a FA instructor and Sig and Glock armourer. I've had to testify in Grand Jury's over police shootings. Weapon modifications always come up.

Don't carry a range toy, which is exactly what you have now. Don't think that range testing for functionality of ammo is the way to go. Do what the old time revolver issued cops did. Stock gun, and fire it until your trigger finger bleeds then put on a bandaid and dry fire some more.

Consider why most of the cops here say to retain a stock gun.

It’s all well and good to do reliability testing with a carry revolver. But there are a lot of moving parts involved and even a thin coat of oil can congeal in extreme cold.

I grew up and spent 40 years in the frozen north where a revolver or pistol that would not suffer light strikes in any of the other three seasons would fail when cold soaked in the winter where 20-30 below zero temps were not uncommon.

My original duty revolver was a Ruger Police Service Six. It was affordable and on the approved list. No one modified their revolvers and everyone hand inspected their issue ammunition.

If you ever needed it you needed it real bad, you needed it right now, and you needed it to work first time, every time.

When we carried revolvers we were only allowed to change grips that’s it. Rubber grips were popular as we carried model 65s with .357 Remington 125gr JHP.