The Winchester 30-30's Use In Shootouts, Gunfights, And Manhunts. New Pics. In Reply

I've always had a soft spot for the ol' "dirty thirty." Here are two of mine. The older one is a 1903 saddle ring carbine (old enough to have been in on the Willy Boy chase). No finish left on it but the action and bore are pretty much "as new." The second one is a 1952 product. I still use it once in a while. In fact, every time I take it out and shoot it, I wonder why I don't do it more often. Wonderful rifles!

M94-2.jpg
 
The only thing I have to add is...I love this thread! Very interesting stories and beautiful old guns!
 
Wyo,
THat old Thutty-thutty can probably tell a tale or two.
Nice rifles.

Did you folks notice that the old Injun Tracker is the only one that don't' have his finger on the trigger?

Now I ain't one of them folks that has a "hissy fit" over that kind of thing, but I thought it was interesting in this case.
 
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Here's a garden variety Model 94 from just before World War II. It is chambered for .32 Special though.

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I've had some .30-30 Winchester 94s in the past and want another. The only Winchester .30-30 I currently possess is this 1928 vintage Winchester Model 54 Carbine.

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In case someone is interested, I did a test with these two 20-inch barreled rifles, shooting factory loads over the chronograph to see how the .32 Special compared to the .30-30. Both guns are pre-war with the same style lands and grooves. The rate of twist is different, the .30-30 being 1-12" and the .32 Special being 1-16". Both guns have sparkling bright bores.

Factory fresh Winchester Western soft point ammunition was used for both the .30-30 and the .32 Special. The 170 grain bullet weight was selected for both cartridges.

The .30-30 ammunition yielded 2104 fps from the Winchester Model 54 Carbine.

The .32 Special yielded 2114 fps from the Winchester Model 94 Carbine.

It has been said in the past that the .32 Special was significantly more powerful than the .30-30. This test seemed to disprove that notion.
 
Iggy - Yeah, that old rifle has been around the block, and it's still a good one. They just don't make 'em like that any more.

As to the original thread topic here, the .30-30 Win. M94 figured prominently in the Spring Creek Raid near Ten Sleep, Wyo. in 1909. For those that don't know about it, several cowboys raided a sheep camp up the Nowood River and murdered three herders. This came after they had crossed a "deadline" with their sheep in defiance of orders to keep out of the country. The subsequent prosecution of those cowboys effectively ended the cattle/sheep range wars in northern Wyoming.
 
The lever gun was the black rifle of its day. No wonder it got used in a lot of fights.


Okie John
 
I feel better armed with a .30-30 (Winny or Marlin) than any black rifle out there. I sure won't enjoy the same rate of fire, but if the SHTF, I would feel a lot more secure drilling some dirtbag once with a .30-30 than wingin' 'em with a .223

JMHO
 
Well, since it turned into a .30-30 show and tell:D
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1971 vintage Marlin 336 that my dad used forever, along with my just bought last week 336SS. Shooting this one the other day reminded me of how much fun an iron sighted thutty-thutty lever action was.
While they may not be ideal, you can do much worse than a lever action for defense nowdays. I don't think being clumsy in the prone position is much of a factor in civilian defensive use. Slow to reload, yes, but if seven or more rounds can't solve your problem, or buy you enough time for a leisurely reload, you were probably screwed regardless of your rifle type.
I also remember Jeff Cooper writing positively about the use of lever action carbines as home defense pieces.
 
Remember 100 years ago or so the "Spray and Pray" school of tactics didn't exist. And I have more confidence in the stopping power of the 30-30-30 than the .223.
 
Will someone please tell me...

...why the 30-30 kicks so blasted hard?
I've fired heavier rifles and yet STILL haven't understood why a Model 94 in 30-30 felt like being kicked by an angry mule.

(My dad had one before some (censored) broke in and stole it.)
 
Here's killer Harry Tracy in death after offing himself when he was cornered, and having murdered around seven lawmen with his 30-30, which is lying there by his side. This is in Eastern Washington state, 1902. Tracy used a winchester 1894 30WCF rifle, not a carbine. This creep usually used one bullet per victim during his ambushes on these approaching lawmen.

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Bought this one in 1969 making $50 a month while driving a school bus. I shot my first deer through the head a shot I'll always remember. I think I paid around $130.00 for it.
shooting015.jpg
 
pluspea said:
Bought this one in 1969 making $50 a month while driving a school bus. I shot my first deer through the head a shot I'll always remember. I think I paid around $130.00 for it.
shooting015.jpg
Click to expand...
I think some of these commemoratives make good guns to actually shoot. Specifically the 16" barreled ones like the Legendary Lawman, or the various octagon barreled rifles like you have here. I'm kind of intrigued by the Win. NRA musket, even though I don't like the engraved reciever. Nice gun you have here.
 
pluspea said:
Bought this one in 1969 making $50 a month while driving a school bus. I shot my first deer through the head a shot I'll always remember. I think I paid around $130.00 for it.
shooting015.jpg
Click to expand...


That looks like a Buffalo Bill Commemorative?

wyo-man
 
I had a Ruger M77 in 7mm Magnum and a Winchester M94 carbine in .30-30 years ago. The 7mm was definitely easier on the shoulder than the M94 was from a sandbag rest.

It's the stock. The M94 is not as well fitted to the human as the M77 and its "calssic" stock was. Plus the M77 had a rubber, hard rubber but rubber, buttpad. The M94 buttpad as a hard plastic piece.

However a sissy bag in the shoulder handled all of that real well.

I now shoot my current M94 [a 16 inch trapper] with the 170 grain bullets as I want the sectional density and penetration. But I shoot it from a rest with that sissy bag!!
 
The rifle pictured is a buffalo bill, it hadn't been fired since the eighties, but my son that is in the air force visited me we went to the range and put a few through it. I had taken the original sights off in favor of williams adjustable, but they were loose and I put the originals back on, after having to order a step for it, and a new saddle ring. I lost the original nickle plated ring and regret it. After firing three rounds with the original sights in place, I put three in the bulls eye, so no adjusting needed. My Dad went to the hardware store to purchase a 30-30 for me, I just wanted a plain run of the mill, but when he saw the buffalo bill and all the shiny stuff, he brought it home. I treated it as a working rifle, I removed the curved butt plate and placed a rubber one in place of it. I've only taken one deer with it, but my dream is to go to south ga. and take a wild hog. I have 30-30 dies but haven't reloaded in years, I used to load a speer 110 grain varmint bullet, it was fast and worked quite well. It is my most cherished piece. Thanks for the comments.
 
The 1894 is without a doubt, the original "Assault Weapon". I have one of my father's 94's in 30-30, and it is a great rifle. Though I have have never carried it for defense, it would be one of the first I would grab in that event. I have seen plenty of them in rural Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming LEO vehicles. Somehow, methinks others feel the way I do!
 
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