Fox news just had a story where a toddler shot and killed his mother with a glock. Seems the father was trying to get the gun from the kid. They played the 911 recording of the fathers call etc. The baby isnt yet 3 years old. What do you think?

My first thought is that the father shot the mother and is trying to blame it on the little baby.

Thanks, that was mine too!

investigators will do a GSR (gun shot residue) of the childs and husbands hands...thats a start as to who fired

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

A link for it: 911 Call Reveals How Toddler Reportedly Shot, Killed Mom - FoxNews.com


Sounds like it's certainly possible; my youngest could pull the trigger on my Sigma when he was four (unloaded, no mag, triple checked clear); I was curious if he could pull the long, heavy, DAO trigger. My wife didn't think he could even pull it if he ever did get ahold of it (our then 10 year old could barely pull it), but he simply adjusted his hands, put both left and right index fingers over it, and pulled (kids are pretty smart). We weren't going to leave it where he could get near it anyways, but the test confirmed we had to be 120% vigilant 24/7/365.

The Glock is a much lighter trigger. Also, the story says the dad was trying to grab it from him. In the process, the dad might have added extra forces to pull the trigger.

The cops said they were doing GSR tests on the child and dad to confirm the story. The dad's 911 transcript seems to be consistant with being shocked and upset.

// This is why my guns are either locked securely or on my person at all times.

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"... shall not be infringed."

Actualy, I belive the news story said they did. Still, wouldnt that be the first thing a guy would think of, shooting the gun with your hand over the babys, then cleaning yourself up before calling 911? Supposedly he also had a permit etc. They are keeping him from seeing his son right now.
No matter what the truth is, I doubt the infant would remember the incident latter. The story just smells to me. Could a infant be able to get a grip and pull the trigger physicaly? The more I think about it the more it stinks!

On the other hand... I was at Benton Shooters a couple weeks ago. In the middle of the store were small fold out tables. On the tables were used shotguns laying sideways hanging off both ends of the table. Father was on the muzzle side of the table, his small boy, probably about 3 +/-, was standing on the other side. "Click" as the little boy was able to reach up and grab at the trigger. Father was standing (I kid you not) nuts high at the muzzle.

It's the other parts of the story that makes me question the veracity of the father since he did not show up for the custody hearing of his own child. What kind of a father does not show up at his son's custody hearing? I'm guessing it's the same kind of father who would blame his son for something like this.

Horsebleep on the man's story. Sooo, the gun was on "the ground." Why, pray tell?

And the boy just so happened to pick it up, point it at his Mom, and fire one shot that was fatal.

I daresay the creep just got away with murder if he is not charged and convicted.

Be safe.

PS:

Note the man was "visiting" at the time of the killing.

I don't doubt the kid COULD pull the trigger but DID the kid pull the trigger? I would bet that the man figured out how to get rid of a problem. Larry

lets see.
step one, load a mag ... pretty tough for a 2 year old.
step two, slap mag into glock ... ok, that is possible
step three ... rack slide ... there are many grown women that cannot accomplish this feat.
step four .. aim and fire ... yeah, Glocks lack of a safety makes this believable.
at the very best, the father is a fool who left a loaded gun where Junior could play with it making him negligent.
at the very worst, he popped his wife and is trying to pin it on the kid ... father of the year candidate.
mid ground ... he readied the piece and told the kid to "go show mommy how it works" ....

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it just needs more voltage

If the question and only question is if a 2 almost 3 year old can pull a trigger on a Glock then yes, absolutely.

As to how this came about, well that's up to the investigators to determine.

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Still Running Against the Wind

My guess is polygraph to follow.

If you limp wrist a glock, will it stovepipe? Was the gun tied up when cops arrived?

City issue 17 would stove pipe limp wristing. My 26 won't

I don't doubt that a typical three year old can "pull" the trigger on any typical Glock, particularly while wrestling for it with a set of adult hands. Leaping to the conclusion, based on the complete absence of facts and details, that this was anything but a tragic accident arising from the father's negligence, is a very long stretch ... I'm surprised that we weren't subjected to the comments and opinions of neighbors and relatives who weren't present, who have no idea what actually happened, but have no reticence about making irrelevant and inane remarks, as is par for the course in "reporting" on these sorts of incidents.

I agree I own a g17 and I find it really hard to believe a kid could pull the trigger on a Glock while holding it and aiming. The Glock trigger has a safety on it so unless you squeeze the safety down with the rest of the trigger the gun will not fire.

OK, I'll put in my 2 cents. Question, "is it possible for a 2 year and 9 month old child to pull a Glock trigger?'. Answer, yes, it's absolutely possible. Is it probable, very, very, doubtful... My son was pretty coordinated as a 2 1/2 year old, and I know he would not have been able to do it, no way...

I would be absolutely shocked if a 2 1/2 year old could coordinate getting a grip on the gun, in a manner that could get off a shot, let alone the odds of the (one) shot hitting a fatal mark. Most people have a natural tendency to move (quickly) aside/away from the muzzle of a gun that is pointed in their direction. Then, of course we've got the custody hearing, and 'visit' thing going on... That's a whole lot of questionable stuff coming together, all at once!

The limited facts that I've heard, just don't seem to add up in the father's favor. Seems like the police are pretty skeptical, as well, if they are not allowing the father to be with the grief-stricken son.

Either way, a horrible tragedy. You'd like to think that the truth will come out, and justice will prevail, but you never know! Of course, let's not forget about our justice system's presumption of innocence standard, everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

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NRA Life Member

I thought that the story was squirley but the trigger pull, I think that he would need to have help.

yashua

Don't lay a loaded Glock or other DAO on the bed when your dog is excited to see you come home. It did go off even though a punctured wall and a dog diving under the bed and an underwear change for the owner of the Glock was was the only result. It wasn't me but I know the guy it happened to.

Around here an off duty police officer left his loaded gun laying on the bed while he slept. Long story short, his toddler son found the gun and shot himself with it while his dad slept. Whether or not foul play is involved in the incident mentioned in this forum, everyone needs to realize that any weapon should be completely secured around a child.

Does that work for a semi-auto? I thought that with the sealed breach, that GSR tests didn't work. The cylinder gap on a revolver is what leaves GSR on your hands.

Possible?
Absofrigginlutely!!!
NEVER underestimate what little ones can do when they put their mind to it.
As for the legal aspects... we do not know enough to absolve or hang anyone yet.


Jim

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Big bullets leave big holes

Sharon Kinne, focus of Jackson County's oldest murder warrant - NBCActionNews.com

The story of ol' lethal love herself, Sharon Kinne, from right around here. According to Sharon her two year old did it but, it appears, she was responsible for several others.

The neat part is that she was arrested, charged, and acquitted for one murder but turned up later w/ the "murder" weapon.

Whereabouts are unknown to this day. Her lawyer was Alex Peebles. He had another infamous 17 year old client around here that turned up gone after being charged w/ murder and has never been seen since 1970. His daddy was a man of means so it is still an interesting story.

Possible? Maybe, but the alibi is not a new one.

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... a little behind in my work

Easily, a child around age one did it in Washington DC with a police officer's gun. The officer then sued Glock, successfully, for making a gun to specification.

His ALLEGEDLY leaving the gun on the bed with the kid was not a factor at all, not at all, it was all the Glocks fault, and the company paid.

Geoff
Who notes the SWaMPy is available with an optional manual safety because of some requirements.

Not real sure about this. As a person that deals with this type case all too frequently, I get case cites and those suits I have found like the one described have been tossed out or dismissed.

In order for a plaintiff to prevail, there has to be negligence on the part of the maker. The gun did not malfunction and worked as designed. The officer was negligent in handling so Glock is not responsible.

Because suits are filed does not mean judgements are awarded. Next, million dollar judgements require million dollar damages. There is a case in CA where a man was accidentally shot in the head by an officer. The damage award was $55,000 against the officer, the police department and nothing from Glock.

I have been involved in suits against three makers and all dealt with defective products. Negligent use is not the fault of the makers and there are laws that were written to keep judgements against makers from being liable for damages for negligent use.

After researching the above case, I found where suit was filed but cannot find where any damages were paid or that it ever went to trial. If anyone has a site showing differently, I would enjoy reading it.

I found my stepfather's unloaded 4th model New Departure (lemon squeezer) when I was 3 years old. I was able to dryfire the gun repeatedly by holding with both hands and pulling the trigger with both fingers. I still have the old pistol; it was my first S&W.

Charlie

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SWCA # 2294

We had a case a few months back where an eighteen (18) month old allegedly had a self inflicted GSW to the upper chest. It was in another jurisdiction and I did not hear the final outcome. Due to the angle of wound entry, I was very skeptical of the story but strange things do happen.

My grandson is two and I think he is capable of pulling the trigger on a handgun. Now aiming and all the other issues are out the window (for now, until his Dad and I school him right!).

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1601 (ret)