I've always wanted a Thompson sub-machine gun in my collection, but the real, honest-to-Pete Tommy Guns are priced out of sight. Auto Ordnance makes a semi-auto Tommy Gun that, though expensive, is priced within reach, and I'm wondering if anybody here has any experience with one of these?

To be precise, I'm talking about the M1SB, which is the 10.5" barrel model that looks identical to the WWII M1 Thompson, but which is, of course, semi-auto only. It's priced at a tick under $2K, and requires the federal stamp...but it's the closest I can come to holding that particular piece of history in my hand.

I'm not looking for match-grade accuracy, and truth to tell, I probably won't even fire it much...but if I decide to buy it, I want it to be reliable and well-crafted.

What are your thoughts, folks? Should I scratch this itch? Thanks for your input...

Beemer,

I bought one of their M1 carbines, it wouldn't run, sent it back, got it back, gas piston broke, sent it back, got it back, it was a one shot carbine, sent it back, got it back, traded it off while still in the latest box, with full disclosure to my trade partner.
Not a fan of the company's product.

Mike

Ouch! That doesn't sound good at all!

Thanks for your input! :-)

And they are H-E-A-V-Y!
f.t.

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South Carolina-God's country

I don't have any experience with the current or recent production guns, but when they first came out (1970s, IIRC), I ordered one of the early production 1927A-1 deluxe guns, along with two 50-round drums and several stick mags. I still have it. It is a beautifully made gun, with excellent machining, close attention to detail, nice wood and excellent bluing. At first, we had a few problems insofar as reliability was concerned; however, we replaced some of the springs with a kit from an aftermarket manufacturer (can't remember who, anymore), and it ran like a top from then on. The only recurring problem was ears breaking in some of the early drums, replaced several. I bought some later drums (now probably 30 years old or so), cured that problem. Original Thompson stick mags (surplus) must be slightly modified to work in a 27A-1, just involves modifying a cut in the mag (enlarging it) or cutting a new slot, don't remember which. The manufacturer has changed hands a few times since then, don't know much about the current guns, but my old one is still a beaut! BTW, even back in the day, the people at the factory recommended NOT buying a 100-round drum - I called them to order one, and they said they just plain don't work, stay away from them, use 50-round drums.

They are fun to shoot, and it really impresses the neighbors when you walk in from your car bracing it on your hip! They are very heavy, though. Have fun with your soon-to-be new toy!

Yes they are! If memory serves me, the website says 11.5 lbs...and you can bet that's unloaded.

My only experience was shooting a friend's on one occasion. As noted, it is HEAVY but, beyond that, it seemed it me to be awkward. It felt to me as though it was very nose heavy. Not at all like a well balanced 11.5 lbs. I had looked forward to shooting it and was disappointed.

Thanks! FYI, the brand is owned by Kahr now, and the M1SB will not accept the drum magazines...sticks only.

I found a video on Youtube of a guy firing a new M1SB...from what I could see, it looked very nice, and he was singing its praises as an accurate, well-made, and reliable gun.

Your comment about impressing the neighbors reminded me of something. I knew a guy back in the '70s who was a Maryland State Trooper, in the days when they could carry pretty much what they wanted as backup weapons in their cars. He worked in what was then a rural area, and carried a semi-auto Thompson...he told me just the sight of it discouraged a lot of mischief! :-)

I'm not absolutely certain I'm going to do this, but it is something I've thought about over the years, and I'm fortunate to be in a position (kids grown, on my own, nobody to answer to but myself) to buy it if I want it.

Think I'll call some dealers tomorrow and see what the transfer would involve... :-)

To tell you the truth, I am a little afraid of having a similar experience. Something like this isn't for everyone, and if I buy it and don't like it, I might have to take a bath on it to get rid of it.

(Many years ago, I owned a Yamaha SR500 motorcycle, which was a single-cylinder, kick-start only machine. It was wonderful, and great fun to ride, but when I went to sell it, I found out just what a white elephant it was! I finally sold it to a guy who had a Ducati Darmah...he understood the SR500 and appreciated it for what it was.)

I had an SR500. It was wonderful, and I had a lot of fun on it. Fortunately, I never has to contemplate selling it; the neighborhood thugs stole it, and I bought a Triumph Bonneville with the insurance proceeds. After having my fun with that one it proved easy to sell.

Heavy, CLASS III with the 10.5" barrel ($200 fed tax required a few months waiting, and the rules that go with it, as in don't lend it out).

They look cool though.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

I came close to buying a handgun version of one not long ago (no buttstock). It seemed to me to be a very well made gun. Fit and finish were quite good. I never fired it, and to tell you the truth, I probably never would have but that thing was COOL just to hold. I felt like Chip Saunders.

Alas, the logical side of me kicked in and I put it back on the rack.

I'm sort of sorry I did that.

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John 3:16 .

I bought the M1 lightweight version about 3 years ago. I have never had any problems with it. It is a simple machine and lots of fun to shoot. I took it to the open house at the range and all of the kids from about 8 to 28 or so had to shoot it. Kicks about like a 22. Really up there on the "looks cool" catagory. I like mine.

I don't know...I love the classics, but for me, a semi auto tommy gun is kind of like a 4 cylinder split window Corvette....

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Auto-Ordnance had severe quality control problems during the 80-90s. The pistols I've seen under Kahr ownership show marked improvement. Haven't seen any recent Thompsons.

Yes, they do look cool...the all-American weapon. The question I have to answer is: Does "looking cool" justify spending all that money?

Hmmmm...is that a gun question or a motorcycle question? :-)

Very few of my car, motorcycle, or gun purchases over the years have involved logic...

Yeah, I know...but the full-auto Tommy Guns are priced totally out of reach of the average person. Half of something is better than all of nothing...

Besides, I fired a sub-machine gun some years ago, and while it was an interesting experience, it didn't really leave me with any burning desire to go out and buy one.

Beemerguy53,

At the NRA convention in Pittsburgh last year, they had the Deluxe model on display with the DRUM and GOLD PLATED TOO.

Now that was REALLY, REALLY COOL!!!!

I held it and couldn't believe the weight and with no ammo in it.

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

They are junk, rarely is one bought that doesn't need some work. You can find a good bit of information on this forum, there is a specific Thompson section -

Machineboards.com - Thompson Submachine Gun Community Forum

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OGCA/OVMS/NAPCA/SWHS/SWCA

I lusted after one for many years. My dad carried the 1927 model in the So. Pacific during WW II and had nothing but praise for the weapon. He was carrying a Garand when wounded and it was cut in half by a heavy Nambu MG. He said he had swapped off to lead an assault on a pill box because "you can't get close enough to the ground with a drum magazine on a Thompson.

Well, I finally found a deal on an older Auto Ordinance M1 (stick mag only) model that I couldn't pass up! It came with one 30 rd. mag. An original 5 cell mag pouch for 20 rd mags was located and I ordered and modified 5 20 rd mags to fit.

My Thompson runs great! At 50 yds, I can keep all shots in the black on an SR1 repair center and on the B1 silhouette, it is deadly!
At 100 yds, center mass shots on silhouettes are the order of the day.

Yes, it is heavy but, you can empty a mag as fast as you can pull the trigger and keep the shots on paper at 25 and 50 yds. The walnut stocks on my M1 have nice figure in the wood.

Mine has the 16" (16.5") barrel and while the 10.5 inch is really cool, I would rather buy more bullets, primers and powder to keep mine running. With an appropriate HP bullet, I may try to take a doe with it next hunting season. I have a deer stand the routinely presents 20 to 50 yds shot opportunities.

Buy one for the same reason that you have your bike, because it is fun and life is to short. I wish my dad was still alive to shoot it with me!

In memory: James D. Lane, Sgt., 32nd Inf. Div., Co E, post war: DDS, MD & Dad!

Over the years I have owned 3 one I bought in the 1970's and it didn't work correctly, one I bought in the 80's and the first time I fired it it broke, and on after 9-11 and it also broke the first time i fired it. Once I had them all repaired I traded them off. I was hoping some where along the line the quality would get better but no such luck.

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Stan

Thanks for your insight on this topic, and thanks very much to your Dad for his service to our country... :-)

Thanks for your input and the link! :-)

I don't know for sure, but I get the impression that the quality has improved considerably since Kahr took over the company.

Your father most likely carried a Model 1928A1. The military never purchased the Model 1927 which was a semi auto only version of the Model 1921. Many people today confuse the two.

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OGCA/OVMS/NAPCA/SWHS/SWCA

Beemerguy53,

I see that your location is Bel Air, MD (or "Blair" as the Balmer Hon's pronounce it). Come a little north and west to Glen Rock, PA (exit 8 off I-83) and rent the Thompson at Freedom Armory. You can decide if it's something you really want to own or just enjoy playing with once in a while.

Duke426

It you decide to sign up with that forum and have any trouble send a PM to me here, I am a moderator on the Thompson forum but use a different user name.

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OGCA/OVMS/NAPCA/SWHS/SWCA

This is an interesting thread. While I have never had one myself, a close
friend did back in the 80's and both times that he brought it out here
to shoot it the gun didn't want to cooperate, so he offed it a.s.a.p!

I have a few photos around here somewhere that I come across once in awhile of
when he brought it out here. In all but one he is shown trying to get it to function
and in the other he had to pose like he was firing it so I could get a decent photo.

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Ogy

I have one shot it, love it, want another one. Mine takes the drum and stick mags the next one I get will take the stick mags only with the horizontal forend grip and bolt on the side. hope the picture down loads I think he's getting it. Just seems to fit his personality.

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I have one of the Kahr built ones you are looking at with regular length barrel. When I got it, I was worried about it, so I put lapping compound on the rails and bolt and ran it back and forth about 600 times. It runs fine and is decently accurate. If you buy surplus mags, you will need to enlarge the mag latch hole slightly to fit, a 5 minute job with file or Dremel.

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Always bet on stupidity.

That's great advice, thanks! Freedom Armory is actually not very far from my rifle club in New Freedom PA. :-)

Kahr brought the gold one to the NRA Convention in St Louis this year, too. I love the look on this guy's face when he saw it!

Almost bought one some time back. Now when I get the urge, I rent a FA Tommy from one of the ranges in Richmond. Lots cheaper and someone else gets to clean it.

papajohn428,

Thanks for photo of the GOLD PLATED TOMMY.

It's just BEYOND COOL!!!!!!!!!

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NRA Pistol/Rifle Inst. RSO

Noooooooooooo! Change out the magazine catch for an original Thompson catch. This will allow you to use original magazines without modifying them.

This modification ruins collectible magazines. It is not unusual to find $150 plus original early Colt era Thompson magazines that someone has turned into a $5 piece of junk to use with a Kahr Thompson.

For those that do not know, Colt manufactured the first 15,000 Thompsons. Anything from this era is worth far more than similar items manufactured later.

The Thompson forum has a lot of information on how to change this out. This thread is one example -

http://www.machinegunboards.com/foru...1&#entry116037

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OGCA/OVMS/NAPCA/SWHS/SWCA

A friend's father had one. It was unreliable, with a lot of failures to feed. He sent it back. When it came back, it looked like somebody'd taken a Holder file to it. It still wouldn't shoot.

I'd pass unless you got to shoot it beforehand.

Thanks for clarifying the model! My dad,during the pre Internet days, also mistakenly believed that Singer manufactured Garands. I was finally able to convince him otherwise.

I have one of the M1927-A1's with all the trimmings. I love mine, but didn't realize the weight until it arrived. No wonder they are so accurate. It takes a lot to throw a 13 lb. firearm off course. Never had a malfunction, either, but the 50 rd. drum is almost more trouble that it is worth. With all that weight, a 20rd stick is just fine, for me.

I have had a semi auto M1 Thompson (16 in barrel) for several years (it is a Kahr). I like (not love) it and have fun with it, BUT, I have had small internal parts break and have had to replace them. This gun is heavy and it is a real pain to break down. I got it because I love WWII US arms (1911, Garand, Carbine, etc...) I think, I paid approx $800. I plan to keep it, but I would not have spent any more than I did in order to get my hands on one.

It might be cheaper to buy the 16" model for less than $1100 and do a shortbarrel conversion on it locally. See
AO 1927A1 THOMPSON 45ACP DLX FINNED PISTOL GRIP $1,067.00 SHIPS FREE

This would give you a chance to try it out beforehand and see if it is enough of a "keeper" to justify the extra cost of the conversion.

I've fired a couple of 1928s and an M1A1, and they are fun. Expensive and heavy, but fun. However, that is not the most fun I ever had with a Thompson. Many years ago I borrowed a realistic Japanese replica of a Thompson; fore grip, drum mag, Cutts compensator. I borrowed it for a Halloween party. Later I brought it to work to return it to the guy I worked with. Everyone knew it was a non-gun replica, so it was no big deal. As I am walking up the corridor to my office I am introduced to a visitor. He was a detective from Scotland Yard. I shift the "Thompson" from my right hand to my left, and I shake his hand. We exchange some pleasantries, but no mention of the "Thompson" I'm holding. Then I continue walking to my office.

I can just imagine what he said when he got back to England, " I'm being shown around this one department, and in walks this big man carrying a bloody Tommy Gun! No one acts as if it is anything unusual or if it even merits a comment. Bloody unbelievable!"

Since that time I have always taken pleasure to giving a foreign visitor a taste of American freedom.

^ That's a funny post

Reminds me of similar post I saw recently:

Question: "Anyone had any experiance with the Remington model 870? I'm thinking about getting one and would appreciate any feedback.

Answer: "I had a Remington 700 once and it was a piece of junk. Ended up trading it off because I never could hit anything with it.

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- Change it back -

My father might have a 1927-A1 45 cal. thompson that he purchased 30 years ago. If your still in the market send me an email to [email protected]

Aloha,

About 40+ years ago, the owner of a LGS showed me a Thompson complete in a violin case with all the extras, 50 round drum included.

I believe he was a Class III dealer at the time.

Years ago, when we were in Minnesota, I rented one for the Wife to shoot. It was a full sized model.

She ripped off the entire 50 rounds in one long burst. Kept everything on the paper. It was heavy and the smooth butt plate kept sliding on her shoulder.

She loved it and wants one. Sent her the photo of the gold plated one. See what she says.

Local PD is Supposed to have a buy back in Black & Gold engraving. Not in PD museum like old Chief says it will be. I should check to see......

The Wife Loves her Berettas and wants to add one of these to her collection:

http://www.guns.com/wp-content/uploa...on-300x218.jpg

IF we move to Texas, and the Khar Thompsons are still made, maybe I can get her one.

I had one of the pistol models with the 13" barrel and vertical foregrip. I got it new back in the early '80s. It had an alloy receiver. It was really awkward to shoot, not really fun. It ran fine, but, it had a bear of a spring and practically destroyed the primers, and battered the cases during ejection. The military horizontal foregrips won't fit either. I was never happy with it, so I took it to a gunshow and swapped it for a Colt SAA.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

Aloha,

Wife sent back that she'll be Happy to add the Gold Thompson to her collection.

Just took a quick look at Auto Ordnance site. Did not see it mentioned.

Does anyone have an idea what's it going for, IF made available to public?

It's like the old gag about yachts. If you have to ask...

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Oh well, what the hell.

I had one and so did my friend, This was in the 1990s. They were well mnade and reliable, but that's about all I could say about them. They were HEAVY, and felt clumsy to hold. The drum magazine was hard to load and you just about had to hammer it to get it into the gun (you have to compress the top round in the magazine to mount the magazine). The trigger pull was so hard that after a while I had to use two fingers to shoot it. I was glad to see someone take it off my hands.

I have one of their M1 semi-auto versions that I got the SBR tax stamp on it for about 10 years. If you want one, buy the regular semi-auto, then go through the SBR process. It is cheaper that way. I shoot mine when I can afford ammo. Even as a semi-auto it still will burn through a 30 round magazine real quick! I shoot mine with live ammo and blanks without much problems. Of course, I have had to do a good bit of work to it.

As some one stated earlier, have a competent gunsmith remove .100 thousands of an inch from the bearing surface of the mag catch. This will enable you to use standard magazines, instead of the butchered magazines.

Another thing you will want to do is invest in an Easy Pull spring kit! The springs that come with it are extremely heavy, and hard to pull. The spring kit makes a huge difference in cocking, and shooting the rifle.

I have done a lot of cosmetic work on mine like machining radiuses to the top of the receiver like the originals, adding a GI butt stock and butt plate, modifying the mag catch, and adding a dummy selector switch, and a full-auto pivot plate.

A word of advice, buy the steel receiver. I have heard stories of the aluminum receiver cracking. The steel receiver is heavier, but sturdier. I can send you some pictures of my finished Thompson clone if you are interested.

Scott