Glock 25/28 .380 ACP's

VaRecon

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I have heard about these guns for years but apparently they are "LEO".
Is there any particular reason that glock only sells these to police?
I don't see any reason why a civilian can't own one, even if they can't buy it firsthand from a shop.
Any LEO's with experience in these guns?
 
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They only sell outside USA because a lot of countries dont allow civilians to have military calibers. Never seen or heard of one for sale in the US. Even if they only sold to LEOs wouldn't a few of them eventually resell or trade for something else?

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Why would one want an oversized 380? I'm, admittedly, not a Glock fan. They are great, serviceable guns, just not for me. Too big and blocky.
Why downsize the caliber, and not the gun?
 
The Glock 25 and 28 are the only Glock models a civilian can legally own here in Mexico. With factory .380 ammo, they work about 99%. I mean by that to say that they will jam or misfeed or fail to extract about 1 in 100 rounds. The .380 Magazine has a "filler" built into it to move the round ahead to make up for the short overall length, but it still doesn't work perfectly.

The .380 Barrel is much thinner in O.D. than a 9 barrel, so you can't just "pop" a 9 barrel into the slide. Also, the barrel hood of the .380 is smaller in size than a normal 9 barrel hood, so it really won't fit. The locking lugs on the slide forward edge and the barrel shoulder are cut away making the pistol a sort of Blish Lock-style delayed blowback as opposed to perhaps a straight blow-back. I have seen G-25's in their factory form withstand reloads up into the high 9 +P area of power with no damage and no case bulging. I don't recommend you live your life doing this, but I've certainly seen it enough times in the last ten years. I have seen that when certain brands of Factory .380 are used that have a little more power than the standard Aguila or Federal 95 grain FMJ brands we have available here, the G-25 seems to work a little better. It's still not 100%, but it does work better. I think many of the stoppages are caused by a combination of short-slide travel caused by limp-whristing as well as a bullet underlength for the action, and slightly more powerful ammo gets the slide back far enough even if the shooter uses an English Tea-cup hold. (Interestingly enough, even fairly standard .380 factory ammo has about the same recoil out of a stock G-25 as 9 duplication loads do out of a G-25 that's been locking lugged.)

I have a Glock 25, but found it to be practically useless except as a dangerous type of "toy" in it's factory form. (They are all the rage down here, because it is all one can legally get, but it's still little more than a dangerous toy. Too big to conceal, too weak to be sure of, and it WILL fail on you at least once out of 100 rounds at the best of times -- often more. That .980 overall length of the .380 cartridge is just too short for the action to work 100% of the time.)

However, all that said and done, if you buy a normal unmarked G-19 slide and get yourself a G-19 barrel you have a G-19 as the frame is the same. Except, that would be illegal, because the 9 is VERBOTTEN. So, get yourself a G-19 barrel without a chamber and put a .380 chamber into it -- preferably with a 9 m.m lead in. You can then load 125 to 130 grain bullets "seated long" into the .380 case. You can load it up pretty high. A 130 grain lead bullet at 1,100 fps is no problem. With perhaps a bit of extractor tuning - or perhaps not - for the slightly different rim, reliability goes up to 99.999 % with the longer loaded cases out of -- properly remarked -- 9 m.m. magazines.

Before someone accuses me of delinquency with the .380 casing, let me state I've fired over 30,000 rounds of the particular load with no particular damage to my "hyper 25", and many other local shooters are playing with the same product. The .380 case is very strong. The law says she's got to be .380 and she is .380. The "loaded long" case stops it from entering a normal .380 magazine (although it could be hand-inserted into a chamber if one were silly enough to want to do it, I suppose). This conversion takes an unlocked G-25 and turns it into a G-25 with locking lugs. Factory .380 ammo will not even start to unlock the piece with normal G-19 mainsprings installed.

Done up thus, the G-25 is useful, as it's about as powerful as any other G-19 out there and also works about as well. A G-34 slide can be used with the "adapter piece" to adapt it to the smaller Compact Frame, and you just make up your barrel to suit, again installing the proper chamber and freebore. I see no reason to covet or desire a Glock 25 in the real world, other than it being the only thing "they" will let you have.

Otherwise, let no one start the "grass is greener over there" silliness because the G-25 can be owned here and not somewhere else. There is no reason to want one, they are not particularly reliable due to the short round and they have the power of a well-imbibed beer-drinker passing gas. Well, maybe a bit more power. I see lots of them everytime I go shooting and it saddens me that their proud owners -- because they are rather hard to get even though they are legal here because the Army does not WANT you to have one -- are so delighted to actually have one. It's like being in the Trenches of World War I with a Ross rifle while everyone else has a Lee-Enfield. Come on, get real. In it's factory form, the G-25 is a stoppage waiting to happen. And deplorably weak for it's size when it does function.

Thinking on it, it's depressing, really. But you certainly can "hot-rod" it into something if you spend the time and the money to go about doing it.
 
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Most of them are sold to either Mexico, Latin American countries and some in South America. IIRC the majority go to Brazil. These countries have a strange law that says civilians cant own guns more powerful than what the police have. When you think about it law enforcment in general dont want that...even here in the U.S. I have yet to come across a LEO that thinks civilians should have the right to concealed carry. They all think they {and of course criminal} should be the only ones with a gun. They cant stop the criminals so they want the next best thing, everyone else. Glock could easily assemble the 380's here and sell a ton of them but for some reason they elect not to.
 
In Mexico, the most powerful ammo/pistol combination you can own as a civilian is the .380 ACP. The most powerful ammo/revolver combination you can own is the .38 Special.

The Army says reloading is illegal and prohibits the exchange or sale of components but the actual law says reloading is legal, so one must buy and exchange carefully and be discreet about what one does.

Now, the .38 Special in a Heavy Duty or Outdoorsman can be loaded up to levels powerful enough to be useful. The .380 ACP in a locked chamber can also be loaded up to 9 levels. In a fully-supported, ramped 1911 chamber specifically cut for it, it can be loaded higher than that. I have fired several thousand out of my own stylized 1911, and there's been no problems whatsoever. Accuracy is fine, by the way, and reliability is great as long as a minimum overall length of 1.050 is observed. Obviously, proper bullet selection is important.

The laws -- at least here in Mexico -- have nothing to do with "Public Safety" and everything to do with preserving the Status Quo politically. At the end of the day, most gun control laws I've ever come across seem to be based on that premise more than actually being there because it might "save just one person...".

Take a look around Mexico. Look at all the stuff that's going on. Look at all the laws and restrictions. If there's a relationship at all, it's not coming out in favor of intense regulation. I mean, that's just got to be obvious, and the regulation isn't there to make YOU or me safer.
 
I thought that the .38 Super was the most powerful cartridge a civilian could own....things must have changed.
Randy
 
I thought that the .38 Super was the most powerful cartridge a civilian could own....things must have changed.
Randy

I thought so too when I came down here 22 years ago and .38 Super would be fine if we could really have it -- but it's not true. Before 1974, you could (as a civilian) have a .38 Super. After 1974 when their new gunlaw came out, all you could have was a .380. The .38 Supers that had been in existence before were then "registered to the house of residence" and could not leave it. No new Supers could be registered. As the owners die off, the registered pistols cannot be passed on (because they are now prohibited) and in theory need to be turned in to become the pistola of some lucky Military Official. However, the registration system itself is flawed. They don't know where anything really is. There's quite a few still around, although never out in the open.

I have seen the ".38 Super is legal in Mexico" thing in various gun magazines since I came down here and I always shake my head when I see it. It's a bit of misinformation that is constantly being repeated as if it's a fact when in reality it is incorrect. It's been 38 years now that a civilian could not have a .38 Super and in fact would go to jail if caught with one. I've read stuff by some "name" gun-writers that just makes me wonder where they get their information, however I also realize that they probably are just unaware that the law has changed -- 38 years ago -- and they just don't know it yet because Mexico's really backwater anyway. Yes, there are probably more Supers down here per capita amongst hidden 1911's than either 9 or .45, but they are hidden now if they are in a civvie home. (It's sort of like how gun books always say that the British found out that the Blish Lock in the 1928 Thompson was not needed and just threw it away....except....if you do that, how do you cock the thing? Stick a cleaning rod down the barrel? Another bit of Urban Legend that just keeps going and going and going but has no basis in fact. But one guy reads it and thinks "well, someone must have researched this..." and repeats it. I have seen Rural Policemen with Supers, and the gun was a big thing before 1974 when "Military Calibers" were Verbotten and so if you wanted a 1911, it had to be the Super. Now, everything above .380 and .38 Special is Verbotten, so none of it matters.)

That doesn't mean that all the bad guys don't have a Super -- or something similar. But the good guys are stuck with rubbish.
 
calmex...great and very informative response. Thanks for setting me straight!

Randy
 
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