I'm thinking of selling my series 80 1991A1 and when I was trying to find out what they are selling for it seems the series 70 is bringing more.Why? When I researched the difference it seems the series 80 is better made and safer.
Colt Series 80 vs 70
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steveno
Member
I think you will find that the series 80 parts in a 1911 has the same reputation as the lock on newer S & W revolvers. supposedly you can get a good trigger pull with a series 80 1911 but it takes a lot more work with the additional parts.
70 vs. 80
When the 80's were introduced a lot of us "old 1911" shooters were scandalized that Colt would do such a thing to a time proven platform.....to borrow a quote from Col. Cooper when he was discussing DA/SA pistols " it is a solution to a problem that does not exsist ". I own both 70 & 80 pistols ranging from Mk4's up thru Gold cups.....and in my experience the whole hoopla was much over stated....if the owner wishes the firing pin safety mechanism can be removed, as I have done on my 80's....I have carried a mk 4 80 for years and have fired thousands of rounds thru it w/o any noticeable difference from the 70 series.
But I never really saw the reason for another safety feature on an already time proven mechanism. IMO the whole issue of trigger pull between the 70's and 80's is primarily perception rather than reality.
When the 80's were introduced a lot of us "old 1911" shooters were scandalized that Colt would do such a thing to a time proven platform.....to borrow a quote from Col. Cooper when he was discussing DA/SA pistols " it is a solution to a problem that does not exsist ". I own both 70 & 80 pistols ranging from Mk4's up thru Gold cups.....and in my experience the whole hoopla was much over stated....if the owner wishes the firing pin safety mechanism can be removed, as I have done on my 80's....I have carried a mk 4 80 for years and have fired thousands of rounds thru it w/o any noticeable difference from the 70 series.
But I never really saw the reason for another safety feature on an already time proven mechanism. IMO the whole issue of trigger pull between the 70's and 80's is primarily perception rather than reality.
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More unnecessary moving parts with the potential to gum up the action.
I have a series 70 Gold Cup purchased early 70s, which after I stopped doing completive shooting I made my daily carry gun. Would not think of using a series 80. Also will not spend my money to buy one, thought if given a 80 if I was in a good mood that day might take it.
I have a series 70 Gold Cup purchased early 70s, which after I stopped doing completive shooting I made my daily carry gun. Would not think of using a series 80. Also will not spend my money to buy one, thought if given a 80 if I was in a good mood that day might take it.
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mkk41
US Veteran
For me , I just like the old traditional slide markings. I like the pre-70 markings the best. That big SERIES 80 marking is just plain ugly.
I do think the internal firing pin is an improvement and a gunsmith that knows what he's doing can make any additional pull go away.
But like with the S&W internal lock , ya just can't force safety improvements down some peoples throat.
I do think the internal firing pin is an improvement and a gunsmith that knows what he's doing can make any additional pull go away.
But like with the S&W internal lock , ya just can't force safety improvements down some peoples throat.
CAJUNLAWYER
Member
having disassembled my S&W 1911 I can see no way that the series 80 safety can affect the trigger pull as it is actuated by the grip safety. Along the same vein, I can see of no way it could fail. Unless someone snuck in and epoxied it in place while you weren't looking.
mkk41
US Veteran
The Colt Series '80 system is trigger operated.
Stevie
Member
Supposidly..the main Achille's-heel of the series 70 Colt 1911 was the barrel bushing redesigned as a 'collet-type' and subject to breakage. Otherwise the same basic 1911 of 1911 fame.
The series 80 safety stuff does add parts. The only 1911 I own with a series 80 safety mechanism is a Remington 1911R1. I can say that you can feel the extra bits and pieces in the trigger to some degree. But then the trigger-pull on my Remington is far superior to my other non-series 80 1911 pistols!
Colt played around with the safety mechanism of the 1911 for decades..developing the 'Schwartz style safety' and the series 80 type of safety. Some claim the Schwartz is better because it works off the grip safety..not affecting trigger-pull...and modern companys use this type of mechanism(Kimber for one)...Others use the series 80 style...some manufacturers don't bother to include these drop safetys at all sticking to the original design...still other 1911 makers just use a smaller/lighter firingpin(Springfield Armory) to accomplish the same goal.
Which and what is best?...I do not know?
The series 80 safety stuff does add parts. The only 1911 I own with a series 80 safety mechanism is a Remington 1911R1. I can say that you can feel the extra bits and pieces in the trigger to some degree. But then the trigger-pull on my Remington is far superior to my other non-series 80 1911 pistols!
Colt played around with the safety mechanism of the 1911 for decades..developing the 'Schwartz style safety' and the series 80 type of safety. Some claim the Schwartz is better because it works off the grip safety..not affecting trigger-pull...and modern companys use this type of mechanism(Kimber for one)...Others use the series 80 style...some manufacturers don't bother to include these drop safetys at all sticking to the original design...still other 1911 makers just use a smaller/lighter firingpin(Springfield Armory) to accomplish the same goal.
Which and what is best?...I do not know?
There are 2 kinds of firing pin safeties in the wild. The Colt series 80 system is used very rarely, if at all outside of Colt. It is activated from the trigger, and it does affect the ability to get a good break like glass release.
S&W, Kimber, and most others use the Swartz system, which is activated by the grip safety. It has its own potential issues. If the nub that pokes up out of the frame is damaged or worn down it might not engage the firing pin block.
It can be damaged by improper assembly - most commonly by holding the grip safety in while trying to put the slide back on. It is natural to hold the the frame in a regular grip while putting the slide back on. This forces the nub up and prevents the slide from going back on. Get too ham-fisted and the result is a damaged safety that won't engage the firing pin block.
cmort666
Member
Correct.
Somebody else's (Kimber maybe) is activated by the grip safety, a much better system in my opinion.
I used to really object to the firing pin safety, but I've got at least two guns with it (Glock 19 and Glock 22) and have never had a problem and never heard of anyone else having one either.
I'm told it's a pain to get a really crisp trigger pull with a Series 80 trigger, but never heard anything about malfunctions. I'd carry a Series 80 M1911. I'd NEVER carry a Smith revolver with their lock.
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I have both. Series 70 Gold Cup Circa 1974 & series 80 circa 1984. Both have their purpose. The series 80 can be safely carried or at the ready with one in the tube - the 70 can't. I know I am probably the exception here, but I am not a big fan of cocked & locked. Rather have one in the tube with the hammer down.
cmort666
Member
I can't go along with that.
You're more likely to have your thumb slip trying to thumb cock under stress than you'll ever have an issue from carrying cocked and locked in a proper holster.
I'm FAR more concerned about:
- Having my thumb slip and possibly having an ND
- Missing or not properly cocking the hammer and not being able to fire at all
Straightshooter2
US Veteran
Hmmm, didn't I hear this same argument start when Colt introduced the Series 80? I've shot 1911A1's, Series 70 and own a Series 80 Combat Commander. Granted when I bought my Commander it had an atrocious (very heavy) trigger pull but that was due more to lawyers and liability than anything else. Fortunately for me, the owner/gunsmith of the shop I bought it from was considered at the time one of the top 100 Colt gunsmith's in the U. S. My trigger pull was heavy enough that I had to hold low left so when I squeezed the trigger the muzzle came up and right to cover the bullseye. When Jim got through with it, it breaks at 2.5 pounds (by scale) and still has the Series 80 parts. I'm sure professional competitive shooters could tell the difference between it and earlier models but I can't. And since it's in my hand, that's the important thing! But still, Series 70, Series 80, Swartz system, I always try to remember Jeff Cooper's words. "Put not your faith in mechanical safeties. They will fail, often with disastrous results. And it tends to scare the horses."
CW
CW
Grayfox
US Veteran
I own pre-70, 70 series and 80 series Colt 1911s and have never found any real difference in any of the triggers. Trigger pulls do vary from one gun to another, but this is the result of random parts used and the skill of the person who assembled it.
I have absolutely no problem with the Series 80 firing pin block nor would I turn down a good 1911 because of it.
Gun owners in general are a fickle bunch. 1911 owners in particular. ANY change is regarded as bad and they will find a reason to gripe about it. Frankly, I think the whole issue is just a bunch of BS.
I have absolutely no problem with the Series 80 firing pin block nor would I turn down a good 1911 because of it.
Gun owners in general are a fickle bunch. 1911 owners in particular. ANY change is regarded as bad and they will find a reason to gripe about it. Frankly, I think the whole issue is just a bunch of BS.
Faulkner
Member
And they are the first to complain about Glocks . . . which have a tendancy to work right out out of the box.
Stevie
Member
Hmmm...Sig, Colt, Para-Ordinance, Taurus, and Remington all use series 80 style firingpin safety mechanisms...probably others I can't think of?
Only a couple-three use the Swartz(no pun intended). Colt developed the Swartz and dropped it for WWII simplicity...then never bothered with it again post-war. Not until the need for firingpin safe 1911 pistols arose again..then Colt went for the series 80. The only thing wrong with a series 80 safety is that it apparently frustrates 1911 pistolsmiths looking for the 'perfect trigger'...
Terry C
Member
There is a filler plate you can buy that will replace the 'lever' (not sure what the proper term for it is) in the Series 80.
It fills in the gap left when the lever is removed, but does not interface with the trigger. The firing pin block and spring are simply removed.
It fills in the gap left when the lever is removed, but does not interface with the trigger. The firing pin block and spring are simply removed.
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Sigh, I used to smith and the myth that the series '80 firing pin safety adversely affected the trigger is largely bull droppings. The one thing the system did do was require somewhat more overtravel after sear release to make sure the firing pin locking plunger completely cleared the firing pin.
It was possibly for folks who shouldn't have been trusted with tools to reduce the trigger overtravel. Typically, the hammer would bash the firing pin past the interference with the safety plunger.....until the parts were so damaged it wouldn't fire at all. Then they'd wail to the gunsmith about the idiots at Colt. I had one customer who did this repeatedly until I used red Loc-Tite on the overtravel stop and told him he wasn't qualified to change my trigger settings.
Those who fulminated against the system largely did so on the basis that it was a change to a system that had worked well for 70 years*. I suppose an Olympic class competitor might notice an actual difference in triggers between '70 Series & '80 series, but that doesn't describe most of the folks making the noise or buying the pistols.
Now I did see several collet bushings break and create some truly monumental problems in disassembling the pistol. A well padded vise and large rubber mallet generally solved these problems. Preferably out of the owners sight as considerable bashing ensued.
*IIRC, one of the acceptance tests for what became the 1911 was to not discharge when dropped 6 feet to a steel deck, landing muzzle first. On a more precisely determined condition, the jolt of the slide going into battery with a 16 lb spring was determined to be about 750 Gs. If the weapon didn't slam fire then, it'd take quite a collision to induce it under other circumstances. About the only practical way you can generate a UD with a properly fitted & maintained 1911 would be to have an impact on the cocked hammer sufficient, and in a direction, to break the sear-the safety blocks the sear, not the hammer.
It was possibly for folks who shouldn't have been trusted with tools to reduce the trigger overtravel. Typically, the hammer would bash the firing pin past the interference with the safety plunger.....until the parts were so damaged it wouldn't fire at all. Then they'd wail to the gunsmith about the idiots at Colt. I had one customer who did this repeatedly until I used red Loc-Tite on the overtravel stop and told him he wasn't qualified to change my trigger settings.
Those who fulminated against the system largely did so on the basis that it was a change to a system that had worked well for 70 years*. I suppose an Olympic class competitor might notice an actual difference in triggers between '70 Series & '80 series, but that doesn't describe most of the folks making the noise or buying the pistols.
Now I did see several collet bushings break and create some truly monumental problems in disassembling the pistol. A well padded vise and large rubber mallet generally solved these problems. Preferably out of the owners sight as considerable bashing ensued.
*IIRC, one of the acceptance tests for what became the 1911 was to not discharge when dropped 6 feet to a steel deck, landing muzzle first. On a more precisely determined condition, the jolt of the slide going into battery with a 16 lb spring was determined to be about 750 Gs. If the weapon didn't slam fire then, it'd take quite a collision to induce it under other circumstances. About the only practical way you can generate a UD with a properly fitted & maintained 1911 would be to have an impact on the cocked hammer sufficient, and in a direction, to break the sear-the safety blocks the sear, not the hammer.
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J. R. WEEMS
Member
Well, my series 70 will shoot with any Gold Cup I had-- or my series 80 Commander. When I had the chance to get an extra new barrel & bushing for her, I jumped on it. 
I have heard the bushing is prone to break- THANKFULLY mine has not. The Gold Cups as well as others are sold, but I kept the Series 70 and Commander.
I have heard the bushing is prone to break- THANKFULLY mine has not. The Gold Cups as well as others are sold, but I kept the Series 70 and Commander.
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JcMack
Member
If the OP's gun is rollmarked 1991a1 in large numbers on the left side of the slide that is a pricing/collecting issue. That production included a 1911, a Commander, and a Compact (while rollmarked Compact, it was Officers size). I was buying a lot of Colts at that time. The "1991a1" line, any model could be had for $359.00, while a Series 80 was $550.00, and a Enhanced series 80 was $650.00. The 1991a1 was produced only in matte black and later a miserable looking stainless that was eventually fixed. I had a new Compact 1991 I had bright hard chromed by Apache and it looked pretty good. Total gun/refinish cost was under $600.00. Overall the 1991a1's do not command the same price as similar Series '80's and '70's.
Kimber series 2's incorporate a copy of Colt's long defunct Swartz (?) safety and it was a real problem in early Kimber series 2 guns.
Kimber series 2's incorporate a copy of Colt's long defunct Swartz (?) safety and it was a real problem in early Kimber series 2 guns.
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