I have a 568 nickel and a high polish 686 that I love dearly. I've been wanting to add a Python to my collection for some time now as well, but I'm not going to pay the ridiculous prices they're going for these days. I heard from several people that 1 or 2 people have been buying these up and thereby drying up and driving up the market. Whatever it is, are the Pythons really that much better than the 586/686 to merit what they're going for? I think I know the answer (hell no) but I wanted to hear from you guys. To me the only thing Python has going for it that the Smith doesn't is it looks slightly cooler with that ventilated rib.

with the price of pythons going up i would say s&w is right behind them and they are going up

Colt got out of the double action revolver game almost twenty years ago; S&W is still around making them. Mystique plays a large factor in collecting.

Are some Colts' greater premiums on the open market evidence of superior products compared to S&W counterparts? Not in my opinion.

Too, the older S&Ws, alas, appear to now be crossing the same event horizon of exponentially increasing prices at certain collector grades that Colt did some years back.

Don't know about just a few people buying up Pythons. They are sought after and out of production so prices will go up to the point at which demand drops; they may then go into hiding or prices will fall.

Since the 586/686 are still produced, older ones will see an increase in value but I doubt regular production guns will reach Python-like prices. Specials like 3" 586s and CS-1 will go up in price faster.

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Alan
SWCA LM 2023, SWHF 220

I was told a story (who knows if it's true) of a guy who made a fortune selling his business and decided to use some of his proceeds to buy up every Python he could find.

Ya I was at a gun show last week and found a nice snub nose python but not for $2800..ouch ....

You sure it's not another DHS conspiracy

That reminds me of a local story: Back in the early 80s, Nelson "Bunker" Hunt and his brother William (heirs to H.L. Hunt's billions) tried to corner the silver futures market and ended up losing their shirts.

Texas Monthly Magazine, in their annual "Best of Texas" issue, listed "Best way to make a small fortune: take a tip from the Hunt brothers and start with a big one."

The S&W is a better revolver in most ways.

I believe the Python market is much like the classic car market. The Python was no better than S&Ws but they were beautiful and cool and expensive. Young people with no money wanted to own Pythons but could not afford them.

Now those same people are older and financially comfortable and many have decided to buy themselves their dream guns no matter the cost. There have never been that many Pythons out there as compared to Smiths and Rugers anyhow so the market went through the roof.

A good friend sold off his Colt DAs and kept his S&Ws over the years. He opined that a Colt is like a beautiful, spoiled woman. We are drawn to the beauty and spend our money while taking extra care to keep her safe at home. In time we realize that there is nothing extra there on the performance side and start wanting a more practical and stronger version that is happy to go wth us on the hunting and fishing trips.

Of course, a major difference is that with guns one may have both a pretty one at home and another to take with you to the field...and get away with it.

I've always been partial to S&W, but the Python's one of those I wish I'd made a move on when they were in production, when prices on new and used were in the realm of reality. Aside from the $$$, a Python would have to be a safe queen. Parts are getting hard to find, as well as guys who know how to work on them. Pythons were hand fitted, as close to custom as any production gun could be, (another reason Colt quit making them). You don't take Wedgewood china and Lennox crystal when you go camping. For the same reason, much as I'd like to, a Python would be my last choice for EDC. I'd even think twice about too many range trips. Too much to risk.

This thread needs to have at least one picture in it.




Or two I suppose...

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C & L

I posted in the regrets thread but I'll mention it here because for a long time I regretted selling (for really cheap) an 8" nickle Python several years ago. I bought it when I turned of legal age to buy back in '79.
So, instead of spending crazy money to get something similar back, I justified spending that kind of money on these (and I am beyond happy that I did):

I agree with gkitch. All one has to do is open the side plate of a Colt revolver. What were the Colt engineers thinking? Compare that to the mechanics of a Smith&Wesson. There you can see why the S&W is a better gun.

Back when the stainless Python first came out,'I bought a 6" model. It was pricey, about $400 as I recall. The single action trigger was very nice. In DA, I think my Smiths were better. I sold it about 10 years ago form$1400. Don't really regret it. They are nice, but not that nice.

Thinking logical about the Python - they were made for about 40 years. OK, say Colt only made 1,000 per year, then how is anyone going to find and buy 40,000 Pythons to corner a market? And "what market"? They are already priced 3-4 times real value. IMO the Python is one of the best looking revolvers ever - but also one of the most fragile (hand tuned to perfection) revolvers that will jump timing before a S&W has even been broken in... Safe queen? Why?? If I can't own something that I can use as designed and intended, they what good does it do hidden in the back of the safe? Something for an heir to take to a flea market or gun show in the future and trade for the newest plastic gun on the market? Something to take out and show guests? Even a Rolex gets arm time!

Great point!

My $0.02.........I have a python from the custom shop that my wife bought for me in 1980. 6" royal blue. Single action is great but I've always hated the stacking on double action. TWICE over the years I've had to remove and peen(stretch the lower leg) the hand to get it back in time. The actions are fragile and will go out of time if shot alot. So I've had mine 34 years and for the last 6 or so it sleeps in the bottom of my safe. For my use my Smiths are much more durable and fun to shoot.
BTW My son is a Colt collector. He has 3 pythons among his other colts. He treats his colts like fine china seldom carrying them in the woods or hunting.

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S&W Accumulator

Pythons were cool guns. I used to buy a gun from a wholesale distributor who was a customer of ours when I got my bonus check each month. Over the years, I accumulated a Python in every barrel length and finish. I only shot one of them and sold them all 20-some years ago when I received an offer I thought too good to refuse. Today, I have a modest collection of about a dozen pre-IL, pre-MIM Smith & Wessons and believe I own the better guns. As W4 intimated, Python internals are very Swiss watch-like and too complicated for someone lacking Colt training to repair or retime (a common requirement for them).

But there is a message for us in the Python price situation. They are escalating in price because they were fine guns that were very desirable and are no longer made. Smith & Wesson still manufacturers good double-action revolvers BUT they no longer make them without locks (for the most part), with forged parts, one-piece barrels, square butts, grooved grip frames and the rest of the "old school" differences. Regardless of where you stand on the newer v. older S&W argument, there IS an undeniable difference in the two genres of S&Ws and that is going to cause a Python-like escalation of resale value for those older versions.

Have you priced really nice Model 19s and 66s lately? I watch sold auctions on GunBroker frequently and my three Model 66s have appreciated nicely since I bought them three to five years ago. I noticed a distinct spike in Model 66 selling prices when the new -8s hit the market, thus indicating that the older ones are considered more valuable than the new ones by a lot of people.

Mr. Moderator, please do not take that last sentence as a bash on the new Model 66 - it was not intended as such and is merely a statement of fact.

If you would like to be like the people who are now able to sell Pythons for what has been described as "ridiculous" prices in this very thread, then get off your duffs and buy some older S&Ws. You will have some very nice guns that you can enjoy owning and even shoot without devaluing them until their values also become "ridiculous."

Ed

I paid $1K for this:




I still enjoy it and usually shoot .38's through it just to keep it from needing maintenance too soon. I don’t look forward to that day as I’m sure it won’t come cheap. But I swear this gun makes me a better shooter. I’ve read the way they bored the barrels the end got tighter to really grip the bullets and force that spin which leads to slightly lower velocity. All I know is with WC’s I can rip the red center from most targets. Oh, and anyone that has thought the Python's trigger in single action or double action wasn't superior had a Python in need of repair.

I pulled out a 1991 Guns & Ammo Annual, Pythons started at a list price of $759.95 while the 586 started at $401. That is a 90% premium for the Python in 1991. Pythons were always expensive guns. Once they were no longer made the premium increased.

First, Colt stopped making them ca. 2007. With stopping production, comes scarcity in the market. The Python action was hand fitted; like no other revolver. The Python has a finish (Royal Blue, nickel) which was far better than any other Colt, and to some, superior to other manufacturers. That mystique remains, and it drives up the cost of the remaining market. What could be purchased for as little as $400 new, now commands prices in excess of $2000, and the price is not going down. One only has to decide when, or if, to jump into the fray.

The Colt action was unique. It continually "stacked" until the sear released. The S&W, on the other hand, stacked up to a certain point, and then used the same amount of pull to release the sear. Folks generally line up on one side, or the other.

The barrel on the Python has a tapered bore, which greatly added to accuracy. That's why the Smolt conversion (Python barrel, K frame) was a popular conversion. You just never see a S&W barrel, and a Colt frame. The Python is also larger than the S&W K frame (and the attendant problems with light .357 bullets), smaller than the N frames. That was a selling point.

The Python was a status symbol especially for some police officers. Carrying one denoted an elite status, if you will.

No one person can possible corner the market on used Pythons. There are thousands out there, and some folks won't sell their guns at any price. That's the way markets operate.

There are also niche markets within the general market. 2.5" and 3" models bring a real premium, because they're scarce within the family. The most common barrel length, 4" does bring the least money (relatively). There is a lot of fakery out there,too. Just look at the number of fake boxes, documentation, "California Combat" models, etc., that are for sale. Folks will pay a premium for the accoutrements.

I own three, and they're great revolvers.

I think the pythons and diamond backs are classic designs and are great looking revolvers & testament to Colt's ability to produce beautiful revolvers, having said that.....I have been a "revolver mechanic" since the early 70's and was an agency armorer for decades.....there are reasons why you did not see Colt revolvers dominating the law enforcement market, PPC matches, the bullseye matches, pin shoots, IPSC , ISHMA revolver, etc....the fellow who was my mentor as a armorer had been in the trade since the 40's and worked on thousands of Colt's and Smith's. He always made jokes abt the Colt's and their innards....they were the "big hammer" guns in his vernacular.
I've owned them, shot them and fixed them....but the vast majority of my revolvers are Smith & Wessons and most of my 1911's are Colt's. As far as spending a couple of thousand of dollars for a python....they can have them as far as I am concerned & leave the Smith's for me.

[QUOTE=Dennis The B;137752513]

The Python was a status symbol especially for some police officers. Carrying one denoted an elite status, if you will.

In the mid-80s, I was working with a couple of fellow lawmen in Georgia to round up some various folks who had sold drugs to an undercover narcotics agent (me). The city cop was a die-hard S&W man and he was obviously good friends with the county deputy who sported a 4" Python. They bantered about their choices incessantly. I will never forget how the deputy very dryly stated, "the reason S&W started making their guns out of stainless steel is that they conducted a marketing survey and found out that a lot of people were using them as trot-line weights".

Please kill the snakes. Colts are not what there cracked up to be. Do to p1ss poor workmanship I'm not really into Colts anymore.(1911/pythons) beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. It's only skin deep. I been there, done the Colt thing. I can't afford to keep on paying top dollar for a lesser quality gun. When I lose money once I write that product off. When I lose money on three guns of the same brand now there's a gap in my wallet where my money once was and that spot in my safe is empty. But now thirty years later the s&w's are filling the empty spaces finally.
Stay with the s&w's don't drop the big money on the lesser quality colt guns. The snakes did nothing for me when they weren't reliable. I wish I had the chance to slam the colt garbage on there CEO's desk. After working for one of the top ten engineering groups in the country and doing R&D plus life testing before the products went into the field I learned a lot how some companies just push junk out. When colt cut back costs the quality control dept went first. Think about it. I had three guns I couldn't ccw carry which that's why I purchased them in the first place. These were made for paper weights or throwing.

I can purchase two or three s&w's to the cost of one over priced python.

I'll pass. I've had rugers for 35 years now. I just got into s&w's. Sorry I took so long. The scalpers during the dirty Harry era turned me off on the s&w revolvers. But I'm buying a quality s&w that I know will work if my life depends on it.

Don't let the good looks empty your wallet. If you own the s&w N Frame in 357 mag you have the best already.

In the 1970's, we played a lot of softball at the local FOP lodge field. Of course, a lot of cops played on various teams. There were several Jefferson County (Kentucky) police detectives who carried 4" nickel Pythons as their side arms. It was a definite status piece for a lot of guys. This was at a time when standard issue for detectives was a S&W Model 19/66 2.5".

Not to sound flip, and not questioning your experience at all, but that's a lot of perhaps well-earned vitriol without any explanation. What happened?

As far as Colt quality control, it's generally accepted even among Colt enthusiasts that as the company glidepathed toward bankruptcy starting in the late '70s and reaching a crisis by the early '90s, QC indeed nose-dived.

I'll bet that in twenty years the 686 will be as much in demand as the Python is now.

To tell the truth, I never thought Pythons were so good looking. I'd like to see how they look without the ventilated rib.

I truly prefer my Colt's (Shooting Master and a number of Pythons) to my S&W's but it is all subjective. The Colt's may require a bit more maintenance to the hand, but that is due to their lockup design. It is true the Pythons keep going up in price, and I think this gets folks riled up, but it's just the way things go. I don't hold the high prices a Registered Magnum or Triple Lock demand against those guns; it's just what they're worth. I have noticed the S&W Forum for the most part is particularly bitter towards the Python.

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Mark

Some Colt revolver slamming going on big time in this thread without providing much if any specific detail on personally owned guns!

Guess it's a good thing they are not in current production.

Not a Python but these are following the same path and quickly going higher in "value"...as are all Colt revolvers.


Anaconda...another one of my favorites.



Of course I like S&W as well.

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C & L

I guess I must be an incredibly fortunate guy. I own 2 Pythons and one Registered Magnum. I paid 3x as much for the one RM as I did for both Pythons total. Course, I've owned the snakes for a few years. Still, inflation or appreciation? The RM cost $60 new.

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Randy
Provenance nerd

Ive been chasing S&W revolvers for about 10 years along with Colt 1911s,but these 3 managed to sneak in.

I just can't take it anymore. The Python prices are insane so tomorrow I'm going to deliver this one to its new owner. I hate safe queens anyway.

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Marketing 101. The Colt Python is a unique, attractive, and very well made revolver. Are they that much better than the Smiths? Probably not, but people (mainly collectors) are paying premium prices for them and every time they change hands, there's a mark-up. If some fool offered you $3000 for your 586 you'd take it, right? The only Colt in my collection is a 1911. I have many Smith & Wessons. Advantage, Smith & Wesson.

Find a PIC of a Colt 3-5-7. It's a Python without the "Cobra's hood" vent rib.

I had a nickel Python Target once. It was a nice gun and shot well and was 38 special only. I had to sell it when I was down and out and they do sell for a premium today.
That said I sold my other Colts too a few years ago as my interest has been S&Ws and never did warm up to Colt's DA although my Python had one of the best SA I ever shot.
Colts are nice guns but way expensive. Seems my S&Ws are getting that way too now.

The gun is featured prominently on a very popular TV show about zombies. Since it's cool to be prepared for the zombie apocalypse, demand has gone up, with the supply being fixed. It doesn't help that they went for a premium even before Rick Grimes started toting one around.

I own both Colt and S&W revolvers, with some Rugers and a neat High Standard Sport King from 1950 that I inherited from an uncle.

I see the value of each brand. Each had a certain niche.

I take a personal affront to those who, without experience, parrot the faults of any well made gun or brand with gusto and blindness.

I have owned 4 Pythons and still own one in 6". It is a very well made handgun. Period. One of the best mid frame 357's ever.
I carried a 4" Nickel as a deputy sheriff. Did I trust my life with it, yes.
I shot it a lot. It never went out of time.

I have not owned a 586, but guided my Dad into purchasing a no dash 6" a long time ago. I shot it a lot. I loved it. My Brother inherited it and also bought a Nickel 4" with the "M" mark. I have shot both of these many times. I will say the 586 is one of the best made mid frame 357's ever. If I had carried one as a LE would I have trusted my life with it. Yes.

I bought last 3 Pythons before the prices followed Jack up the bean stalk. I sold 2 of them to buy S&W revolvers before they headed for Colt prices.

Below are several links, one might read them for educational purposes.

Several well known names think very highly of the Python. Folks with vast experience, folks who do did not gain their claim to fame by parroting internet hearsay, folks who have been to the well.

Do I like Colt Pythons, yes. Do I like the 586, yes. Each has a place, how can one think either is better? Lots of apples and orange comparisons by the unknowledgeable.

I do think that S&W (Wow on the RM it may be the high dollar pack leader) is following Colt price wise? Yes. Both are becoming very expensive pieces.

Would I buy a 586 4" Nickel? Yes if the price is right, but then I have a 4" 19-3 and it seems to work ok.

Check out the links, see if the learned folks are those who's credentials are bash worthy.

Is the Colt Python "delicate"? | Revolvers, Personal opinions, Gunsmithing | GrantCunningham.com

Review of the Finest Revolver Ever Made: the Colt Python - Guns.com

This review compares the 2, interesting the Python outscores the 586 except for conceal carry;
All Revolver Reviews | Gun Reviews

Our friend, Mr. Saxon Pig steps to the plate in this link;
Colt Python: Best .357Mag ever? - THR

If one still feels the need to bash read this article by Massad Ayoob on Grant Cunningham's link. It is full of name dropping, famous names. It also mentions little facts, like 100,000 through a Python.
GrantCunningham.com - Gunsmithing

If you have an urge to go inside your Python here's your plan;
http://www.americanrifleman.org/arti...ython-revolver

I know S&W developed the 586/581 to provide a more durable 357 and used Colts mid frame idea. It was not only designed to compete with the Python pains were taken to make it more ergonomic, read K Frame size grips, more durable, and made with less skilled labor to make it readily affordable. Late too the game I do like what S&W has done.

Bottom line is I like Pythons, I appreciate their place in history, beauty, accuracy and durability. I also carry and use mine.

But, surprise, I carry my S&W 27-2 in 3.5" well over 80% of the time. My 629 MIM IL in 4" is my deer season backup and gets carried 2nd most.

Is that not crazy, me a die hard Colt lover carrying 2 S&W revolvers most of the time. Why? I also love S&W's.

My my late 70's colt python was out of time. It was close to locking up but didn't lock up till the trigger was pulled.

My 1911 combat commander 45acp had feeding problems from the start.(late 70's)
I traded it in for a colt government series 70 model in nickel. Again feeding problems, loose sights happened so I traded it in for a new ruger redhawk when they were first offered. I gave up trying to own a functional reliable 1911 for many years. Then I purchased a new Springfield armory 1911 in 1990. It was in black park and had options. It would stove pipe one round per mag. I put it in the safe and forgot about it. Around '06 I purchased a Chinese norinco 1911 this was going to be my last 1911 if it didn't function.
Well the norinco showed me what all the 1911 hype was about. What an awesome pistol when it functions properly. I wanted to build it. I purchased every DVD, vhs educational video out there from Wilson combat, agi, & Jerry K 1911 book and videos. I ate, slept with everything hungry for the knowledge on how to tune, build and repair them what to look for. I wanted to do a low budget builds using all cheap New parts. Just to see How accurate it could be.
I installed a USGI surplus barrel in my norc with a national match barrel bushing with a full length guide rod kit with the 18# recoil spring. I fitted the barrel so it has no spring in full battery and no spring when it toggles down to load the next round. In full battery it has 100% lockup. I left the rattle slide and frame rail fit alone. At the range at 25yards using Russian wolf 45acp ball ammo she shoots one clover leaf per 8rd mag. constantly. I haven't tried my target reloads yet. Now armed with the 1911 knowledge I remembered my new SA 1911 that's been growing roots in the safe for over a decade. I found the extractor to be unsprung. I ordered all the tools and fixtures to work on the 1911 slide and frame rails plus the extractor tools. I did all the tips on chamfering the bottom of the extractor. Now I took the extractor tool to reset the arc in the extractor. I then installed it in the empty slide and used the pull Gage so the extractor held the fired case firmly and within specs in the Jerry k book. The trip to the range went awesome. My new 1990 SA 1911 is now fully functional, reliable and dependable. It fully renewed my faith in 1911's.

I'm no gun Smith nor claim to be but as long as I can repair the guns I shoot I'm happy, happy. Now I can repair my 1911's.

Being a small engine, drag race engine builder, car/jeep mechanic, a machinest, a machine builder by trade, a lead engineering tech. I figured with all my years of experience on how things work and repairing them plus assisting in New designs and doing fabrication for r&d testing why not try to fix guns. My next build will be to build a complete brand new 1911. I have purchased the slide kit complete with all the parts. The frame parts kit. All I need now is the new bare frame. It costs more to build a new 1911 than to buy a new complete 1911. But we can't put a price tag on the education and knowledge right?

My total cost for the norinco build was;

1. Chinese Norinco 1911a1 $300 LGS
2. New surplus military USGI barrel $59 sportsmans guide
3. New National Match barrel bushing $12 IAI/CDNN
4. FLGR Kit w/18# spring $9 on sale sportsmans guide
5. Full Wraparound Rubber grips IAI/CDNN $15
6. Adjustable trigger IAI/CDNN $16

Cheap New parts shooting cloverleafs at 25 yards priceless.

The bottom line is you can be as good as you want to be and can do anything you put your mind too. Just stay focused and motivated.

Tip on auto pistols. Do not chamber a round then close the slide on it. It can ruin the extractor tention. Load the chamber from the magazine only.

I did a quick search and found this on the High Road forum, it explains lock up; you can read the entire link at the bottom.

dfariswheelAugust 28, 2010, 09:11 PM
If you have an old style Colt like a Detective Special or Python, the cylinder should lock up tight only when the trigger is pulled and held back.

If you have a S&W, Ruger, Dan Wesson, Taurus, Rossi, or a newer Colt like a Mark III or King Cobra, the cylinder is intentionally designed NOT to lock up tight.
This allows the bullet passing from the chamber to the barrel to force the chamber into alignment with the bore.
In these types of guns, the action will lock up as tight as it's going to with the hammer just cocked.
Pulling the trigger won't lock it tighter.

in other words, if you have something other than a older style Colt your gun isn't broken and trying to "fix it" will prevent it from operating properly.

Cylinder lockup - THR

Colt 357 Model

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Dennis

Instead of bashing the Python one should realize that they are becoming collector items, and the collector value has little to do with intrinsic value.

My Avatar is my late grandfather's Colt SAA, dating to 1908 which is factory engraved. As a shooter a .45 Colt Ruger Blackhawk would be a better gun and probably ten to twenty thousand cheaper. But the only way you can own or use that gun today is to be a family member or a very special friend of a family member. I know why I like that one, but cannot understand people that want them that badly.

I have never owned a Python because I never thought they were worth the asking price. The only reason for me to regret not having bought one decades ago is that I would have made a killing selling one today.

All guns are up.

All Colts are way up (not making any new ones).

Pythons, Anacondas and Diamondbacks are way, way up.

I have 3 Pythons and 2 D'backs. I call them my retirement fund.

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No life story has happy end.

This is true. Considering that The Walking Dead is one of the top watched shows right now, it's main character (Rick Grimes) is responsible for a lot of the current demand in the Colt Python. I say it's both good and bad. Good that younger guys are getting interested in revolvers but bad that prices are going up.

Maybe this season Rick's Python locks up and he goes for a 686. Then I can sell mine for triple what I paid

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Ephesians 6 (Armor of God)

I think the Python's are one of the best looking revolvers out there. I'm not going to lie, I feel in love with the Python when I started watching the Walking Dead I own a 6" in Royal Blue of 1976 vintage because I got it for a great price that I could not refuse. I have not shot it yet but I think the DA on this gun is better than the DA's on my 686's. The SA on my Python is not as good as my Smith's though. I bet if the 586/686 went out of production 12 years ago, they would be up in value like the Colt's.

James

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Never owned a colt python but did pick up near mint 6 inch stainless 357 colt cobra a couple of years ago, no box or papers for 600 dollars. Guy offered me a thousand for it last year. Took the offer and bought myself a new shield 9 and new cannik tristar t00 9 and had money left over. I only like to have guns that I can carry in my old age.

It wasn't the final tight lock up that was the problem the cylinder didn't turn far enough for the cam to go in the slot on the cylinder. When I pulled the trigger the cylinder would turn into place as the cam locked in place the gun fired.

How about a NIB 4" Python?

With most of the big gun manufacturers discontinuing there revolver line up at least s&w is still offering there classic revolvers and some new PC tuned revolvers which look pretty good price wise too.

Colt is too busy with government contracts to throw us little people a bone.
When the contracts slow down colt will throw us a bone and I'll throw it back to them.

My brother purchased a colt trooper that was an awesome revolver. He got a good one while I got the what ever.

The pimps are buying them all up.

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Wayne
Torn & Frayed

WELL !
Colt Pythons, and other Colt Revolvers are "High Price" plus Smith and Wesson Revolver are also climbing higher and higher in price.

**** Has anyone noted the prices on wood revolver grips lately ?? and the grips are just two pieces of carved wood with a screw.

Mines not going anywhere for any price.

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Pray for Gridlock