Here's another draft article for review and comments. This one is near and dear to my heart, as I collect these rifles. There is so much more to this story - so much that it could be contained in a book - when I find the time and a publisher. In the meanwhile, here are the highlights regarding this fantastic rifle and its spinoffs.

Hope you enjoy it!

John



The Remington Nylon 66 .22 semiautomatic rifle was revolutionary when it was introduced. The stock and most of the rifle itself was made of plastic. It needed no lubrication. It was accurate and boringly reliable right out of the box. It was virtually impervious to the elements. Critics said it would never sell well. It sold phenomenally. Now that it has been long gone from production, used examples sell for escalating prices unheard of just a few years ago. Light, handy and nearly indestructible, the Nylon 66 filled a niche that no other rifle has since. It spawned a variety of limited-manufacture spinoff arms that are nearly unobtainable now and extremely expensive when found on the collector market. There’s never been anything like it.

Let’s rewind the calendar back to the late 1950s. Remington’s research and development department had conceptualized a .22 rifle made almost entirely of plastic, to be designed as a light, reliable and durable semiautomatic. Luckily, Remington had the resources of its parent corporation, DuPont, to come up with a plastic material that would meet stringent criteria. The synthetic material had to be moldable to any shape. It had to have high tensile, impact and flex strength. It should have high abrasion resistance and withstand extremes of cold and heat. It should not burn when an initiating flame would be removed. It should be fungus-resistant, and unattractive to rodents and insects. The finish should be easily repairable. And finally, it had to be self-lubricating and hold its dimensions indefinitely. DuPont’s solution was a blended Nylon formula christened “Zytel 101.”

Wayne E. Leek headed the Remington R&D department. Assisting him was a crack team that included Charles H. Morse, Homer W. Young, Robert P. Kelly, and James S. Martin. This team machined a prototype framework out of a solid bar of the new material for test purposes. They were thrilled with the results. The new gun was fired 75,000 times and exceeded all their expectations for suitability and durability.

Now it was 1958. Wayne Leek actually had two big challenges. One was designing the rifle, using a large number of metal stampings that could be made inexpensively and yet interact together reliably and consistently. The second challenge was even larger. The Remington management was unconvinced that the radical new rifle would sell. Leek had to become a crusader, selling the concept to the Remington brass. He lobbied hard, and finally got his way. The result was outstanding. The new rifle, finally called the “Nylon 66”, was named after the specific color mixture which produced a wood-like appearance. Production started in November of 1958, and in 1959, the new rifle took the market by storm. It was to become one of the largest selling .22 rifles of all time.

The new semiauto had no conventional stock and action. Instead these were molded together in two halves which were joined together laterally. This formed one sturdy and warp-free unit. The action parts were placed within this framework. The barrel was inserted from the front and held by a yoke in the proper position. A sheet metal action cover gave the visual illusion of a separate receiver, and was grooved for “tip-off” scope mounting. A tube in the buttstock held fourteen .22 long rifle cartridges that were fed forward into the action by a spring. The reciprocating blowback bolt rode on nylon raceways, and needed no lubrication. This was a big advantage, as oil would tend to attract unburned powder granules and other firing residue. A light coating of oil on the metal parts for protection was all that was needed. The stock looked like finely finished wood. It was first introduced in “Mohawk brown,” followed in early 1959 by “Seneca green,” which was actually a green-tinted brown. This version was only made from 1959 to 1961, with just short of 45,000 bearing this unique color. It’s a collectors’ item today.

The rifle had a “space age” look with its sleek lines and racy front sight. It weighed about four pounds and was easy to carry and handle. Its tubular magazine was well-protected within the stock. It proved to be utterly reliable and amazingly accurate. The first models featured a fully-adjustable notched rear sight, with both elevation and windage knobs that contained screw slots. The windage knob was exchanged in 1964 for just a screw slot in the end of the windage screw. The rifle illustrated is an early one made in September, 1959, and is complete with the windage knob. All Nylon 66s, by the way, have date codes stamped on the barrel which are easily found and deciphered on the internet, yielding the month and year of manufacture.

To induce the public to break with the tradition of wood and steel, Remington went all out with an advertising campaign. As part of this, Remington field representative Tom Frye, an accomplished exhibition shooter, used two weeks of his vacation in October, 1959 to set a new world record at the Holiday hotel in Reno, Nevada. Fifty-three years earlier, the legendary Ad Topperwein had shot at 72,500 2.5-inch square wooden blocks which were thrown in the air, using Winchester Model 1903 .22 semiautos over a period of 12 days. He shot all the blocks except nine. Frye was up to the challenge. Alternately using two to four Nylon 66 rifles, Frye shot at and hit all but six of 100,010 similar wooden blocks. The rifles and the Remington-Peters rimfire cartridges performed without a hitch of any kind.

In 1962, the “Apache black” variation of the 66 was introduced. This had a black stock with white inlays, and a chromed receiver cover and barrel. It sold well. 220, 564 units were made until it was discontinued in 1983. Also in 1962, the “Gallery Special” came on stream, modified internally to fire .22 shorts only. It’s easily identified by the sheet metal shell deflector plate on the side ahead of the operating handle. It was part of the line until 1981, and with only 16,474 made, it’s now a valued variation among collectors.

Flushed with the success of the Nylon 66, Remington came out with quite a number of spinoff rifles featuring the use of Nylon stocks. These came on the market in 1962, but never enjoyed the popularity of the “parent” Nylon 66s. There were bolt action single shots, bolt action tubular feeds, and bolt action “clip fed” types. There was even a single shot smoothbore for shooting .22 LR shot shells. Nylon-stocked lever actions (Trail Riders) in Mohawk brown and Apache Black were also made, as well as some limited all-black lever rifles with matte receiver covers that were uncataloged. All of these are now in the collector category, and they were discontinued in 1964.

In 1970, a detachable-magazine variation of the Nylon 66 came out. Called the Nylon 77, its plastic magazine held five rounds. It was not popular, and was soon replaced by the Mohawk 10C – the only change was a 10-round plastic magazine. This was not a catalog item and was sold at cut-rate prices through distributors. In 1978, the “Black Diamond” Nylon 66 came on stream. It had a black stock, but unlike the “Apache Black” version, the receiver cover and barrel were the standard blue. Instead of a white diamond stock insert, it had a black one, hence the name. It was discontinued in 1989. Two commemorative Nylon 66s were made, one to celebrate the U.S. Bicentennial in 1976, and one to mark the Remington 150th anniversary in 1966. Both had stamped bronze-filled roll-marked “engravings” on the left of the receiver cover. The final variation of the Nylon series was the Apache 77, sold only through K-Mart. It had a green “clip fed” stock, and unlike all the previous versions, no white line spacers were used. It used the same plastic magazine as the Nylon 10C.

Finally, the molds used to produce the stocks had become worn, and Remington decided to discontinue the Nylon rifles. They are no more. The last 66s were probably shipped in early 1991. It's been estimated that over 1,050,000 were made. Some of the tooling was sold, and a few clones were produced in South America for a while. There’s much more detail involved in the Remington Nylon saga, but space considerations preclude it from being covered here. It’s a subject for a future book – maybe when I find the time and a publisher! At any rate, used Nylon rifles are now in high demand, and besides their collector interest, they still make fine rifles for shooting. If you have one or more, you know that!

(c) 2014 JLM

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Another lesson learned for me - I'd paid scant attention to this model and knew very little about it. My thanks for the education, and a fine post.

First firearm I ever purchased was a Nylon 66 Apache. Had just gotten back from Viet-Nam. 1969 stationed at Fort Carson and there were a group of plinkers in my battalion. Bought the Remington at the post sporting goods store. If I recall correctly I paid around $70 for it and a four power Weaver scope. Still have it. It still shoots as good as new. Probably going to start the oldest granddaughter out on it this summer.

Fine article, John.

A brother-in-law of mine had a Mohawk Brown 66; and much as I loved my Marlin 39A, I sort of grudgingly lusted for the nylon wonder. It was a very sweet-shooting, accurate little rifle, and not much more than half the weight of the Marlin.

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Oh well, what the hell.

The handy nylon rifles were very popular and seemed to be in the back window of pickup trucks all over with a 4X scope. What kind of accuracy do they get? Very good story on another successful Remington product. Larry

Good article, thanks. I always wanted one but never got around to getting it. My loss.

I've had a Model 66 for over 20 years. It was my truck gun & saw quite a bit of usage. Never had a bit of trouble at all. Best 45 bucks I ever spent.

Excellent story!

While I have never owned one, I remember pouring over my Dad's American Rifleman Magazines in the early 60's and drooling over that rifle.
One of my shootin' Bud's has one and I should ask him to bring it down to the Range next weekend as I have never shot one and would really like to.

First 22 rifle I ever bought was one of these, an early Mohawk brown one I got for $40 at a farm auction. It never failed to work and always shot well. Wish I still had it but foolishly traded it off for something else. Have owned a few more since then and still have one tucked in the safe that gets to come out now and then.

I think a lot of us older shooters that were young back in those days wanted that "Flash Gordon" rifle !!

Sure looked a lot better than an old single shot bolt action that my brother and I used.................
Got to shot a friends and it was really a sweet rifle....... no scope, just iron sights.

Thanks for the great post and history on the Remington rifle.

First Remington .22 rifle I ever shot was Dads 12C NRA pump. At the time @ 1956 and on I also shot a lot of Winchester Gallery guns at the local/County Fairs.

I remember the 66's coming out and dismissed them at the time as cheap and inferior to the wood and steel I was weaned on.

Never having owned one I have come to respect the place they grew. I still look for a bargain one just to play with.
I know I've passed many opportunities at long-ago gun shows, like everything else.

Perhaps one will "fall into my lap" one day, but I still have Dads 12C NRA.

Thanks for a great article! Very informative!

Thanks, Paladin! On my 13th birthday, my Dad gave me his Nylon 66. It was the first gun I ever owned. Some day, my son will own it.

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Proud anachronism

Paladin: When you get your book done, let us know. I very much want a copy.

I'm in the same boat. The first firearm I ever purchased was an Apache Black 66. I too still have it and it is a great rifle. I'll bet I've taken over a hundred squirrels with it over the years! Very accurate with those iron sights.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

I thought they were great looking when they came out; still do. But I already had a serviceable Marlin bolt action .22, and no way was I liable to have TWO .22 rifles. Plus then I would have to routinely feed it with high powered long rifle ammo which my budget would never have stood.

It took about 40 years for me to actually get one into the herd. Neat little guns.

I wanted a nylon 66 so bad when i was a kid.... my pop was old school... wood metal, bolt action (for a speedy shot) and no magazine.... I had to "suffer" with grampa's winchester model 67. I was so bummed that I could not have that yankee rifle that I could load once and shoot all week.

The prices on these are all over the place. What's a good price for a standard Mohawk in around 95% cond.? I know the other models are bringing more.
Another question: have you found that the nylon raceways deteriorate with time and crack? Nylon is know to get brittle and do that.

I was in Cabelas in Rogers Mn a couple months ago. They had dozens of the Nylon Remington 22s. I joked with the guy and asked if they were trying to corner the market on nylon Remingtons. He said they bought a collection of over 300 of them from one guy. They had bolt actins, lever actions, and semi autos. Some were clip, some were tube feed. Most were brown but some were black and one was a dark green. Most were blued but some were nickel or chromed metal. It was an interesting collection. They seemed way over priced, at about $500- 1200.
There was still quite a few of them there last week.

Some years back a friend of mine brought me his father's Nylon 66. Seems that Dad had decided to take it apart and clean it.
Anyway, Dad couldn't get it back together, finally gave up and threw it in the back of the closet with a coffee can full of small parts. My friend didn't know exactly when this had happened just that in was in the back of that closet for many years. He asked me if I could fix it.
I recognized it right off, knew it was a good rifle and told him I'd give it a shot. Naturally over the years some of those tiny parts had gone missing.
I spread it out on my bench and even with an exploded view parts diagram it still took a couple of hours just to figure out what was missing. I found an on-line source for the parts and got them ordered.
What followed were several frustrating afternoons with me, this pile of parts and J.B. Woods book. But I finally got it back together.
I took it to the range to test fire it and the little rifle actually drew a crowd. Comments ranged from 'What's that?" to "Oh Wow! Can I shoot it?" Between me and several helpers, we burned through a whole brick of .22s in short order.
That odd looking little gun shot like a champ and never missed a beat. We had a lot of fun with it.
I gave it back to my friend and he was tickled to death to have Dad's old rifle back in working order.
Maybe someday, if I stumble across one at a good price, I'll buy it for myself. But I'll never take it apart!

I bought a Nylon 66 new in the early 70's. Still have the gun and shoot it all the time. I took it apart for the first time this year after finding a how-to on youtube. That thing was quite dirty after all the shots that went through it. Got it all back together and adding to the round count.

I will never get rid of this Nylon 66 until I can't shoot it anymore, then give it to one of my grandsons.

I want a Nylon 76.

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Rick
M&P 15-22, G27 Gen4, G23

I have owned four Remington Nylon 66 rifles. Two new, two used. Not a one of them would function with Remington ammo. The two new rifles were not very accurate, even when scoped. The first used one was acceptable but was the AB model and somebody offered me too much for it and I sold it. I bought a H&R .410 single shot, Ithaca 49 .22 rifle and the fourth and final Nylon 66 from a friend. My son still has the H&R and 66, the Ithaca got passed on to a cousin.

The Ruger 10/22 is another rifle I have had poor luck with. One bought new, two bought used, and one traded for. Out of twenty Ruger rifles, I have owned three worth keeping.

The answer to your first (very common) question is "It varies." I've seen them as low as $200 to as much as $500 or even more. The Remington Nylons have skyrocketed in value over the last few years. The reasons are many - 1. They work. 2. They're "sexy." 3. They aren't made any more. 4. They were the first production rifles made with full plastic stocks and receivers. 5. They are quite accurate. 6. They are nostalgic for the "baby boomers." That's probably because because they had one back in the day, or because they have always wanted one.

With respect to the Nylon raceways, the particular Zytel formula was specced for high abrasion resistance. I have never seen a 66 wear to the point where it was not functional.

The values on the bolt actions and the lever actions have become astronomical. As one example, I saw a Nylon 76 (lever) with the Apache Black finish advertised on the internet for over $5,000. I'm sure a collector bought it at or near that price. Only 1,615 were ever made. I'm fortunate enough to have acquired one many years ago before the boom in prices.

I should also point out that for identification purposes on the bolt action Nylons, I have a photo album on this forum that will sort them out visually. Here is the link:

Smith & Wesson Forum - PALADIN85020's Album: Remington Nylon Bolt Actions

Also, with respect to rarity, identification and comparative values, here are a couple of charts that I routinely send to those who are seriously interested in putting a complete collection together. Date codes are also included. I hope it will be of interest.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

I've had two 66's, one Apache Black & one Black Diamond, plus a 77. I have since sold the BD, but the AB came home from Viet Nam with me & has a lifetime home.

I have always been impressed with their accuracy & reliability - but I'm not brave enough to take them apart!

Thank you for that info, very helpful. As to the nylon/zytel raceways, I wondered specifically about brittleness and cracking and not so much wearing per say. I have an early 70s .22 handgun that the nylon hammer spur pivot point basically disintegrated on. Fortunately replacement was still available but maybe not with the Nylon 66, don't know.
Thanks again

I used to be the same way for years until I followed this video, after a time or two it is not so intimidating.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1syv...NPxNsY3GAtddEg

Inasmuch as the whole stock/receiver combo is made of the same Zytel material and I have not noticed any brittleness or cracking tendency on the exterior of these rifles after more than 23 years, I suspect that the raceways on the interior would exhibit the same characteristics. I sure wouldn't worry about it. DuPont did a great job coming up with this specific Nylon formula. When shipped, the guns had a sticker on the stock that said the stocks were guaranteed not to chip, crack or fade. Some of the salesman samples were subjected to being run over by trucks and dropped from buildings onto hard surfaces when the rifle was introduced. Also many were submerged in lakes for long periods, then fished out - they worked perfectly. These guns were favored by trappers in the cold north areas. No problem.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Good to know. The zytel apparently is more durable than standard nylon. Thanks

Here's mine:

I got one at 13 or 14. Shot the bejeezus out of it. I recall it being pretty beat up by the time I traded it in college for, well... never mind.
The short-sightedness of youth!
I'd grab another one in a heartbeat.

this is the very first firearm I ever fired.
As a result, it became the benchmark of all things I expect a 22 to be.
Nothing else quite measured up, as a result, I really haven't done much with 22's in a few decades

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it just needs more voltage

I had one with a black stock, but a blued receiver cover. Not an Apache Black. But I thought the stock diamond was white. My memory may be vague about the diamond.

I liked the little rifle, but had to sell it and some other things when the ex let me have my daughter and we had to move.
I replaced it with a stainless Marlin M-795SS. I like the Marlin, too, but may yet get another Nylon 66. If I do, it'll be a normal Mohawk Brown.

I think I recall that Remington discovered some safety issue and that's really why they quit making the rifles. They sold well enough that they could probably have bought new molds to replace the worn ones. Does anyone know more about this?

How's the quality of the Brazilian-made ones?

Here's mine.

Attached Images

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Paladin, you did a superb job as usual. I enjoy your articles.

I remember when the 66 came out and really didn't care for a plastic gun (still don't). In those days the gold standard was the Winchester 63 or even the Remington 550 was desirable.

A friend of mine had one and while Jackrabbit hunting, fell out of a jeep on top of it and broke it in half. It surprised everybody, but Remington replaced it with no questions asked.

First rifle my dad purchased & taught my brother & I to shoot. Mohawk Brown. My brother still has it, I think. Still trying to figure how he got my dad's & my granddad's .22's???

No safety issues that I ever heard about, and I've followed the Nylon breed pretty closely over the years. Remington made a business decision - the Nylons required specialized equipment to fabricate and assemble, and they turned to more traditional style guns that could actually be made more cheaply.

As for the Brazilian guns, here's the story.

About 1984, Remington decided that since primary tooling for the Nylon 66 had become seriously worn, they would eventually discontinue the rifle. Subsequently, they continued to make components for the assembly of the Nylon 66 and Apache 77 over the next few years, but sold a large part of their used tooling to F.I.E. (Firearms Import and Export Corpoation) of Miami, Florida. Both Remington and F.I.E. therefore offered nylon semiautos concurrently for a time, competing for essentially the same market.

F.I.E. sent the Nylon 66 tooling to South America for production. A black rifle with a blued receiver cover and a white diamond inlay on the stock was made by CBC (Compania Brazileire Cartuchos, Portuguese for Brazilian Cartridge Company) of Santo Andre, Brazil. It was imported by F.I.E. until 1990 and was known as the GR-8 Black Beauty. Each of these was serial numbered on the left of the receiver cover, with "GR", a space, and 5 digits, such as "GR 12345." The same number was placed on the barrel under the front sight. CBC took a number of production shortcuts on their version of the rifle. The result was a functional but less-than-elegant rifle. The receiver cover was not deburred, so there are some pretty sharp edges on it, and it isn't as carefully fitted to the stock as on those on the Remingtons. The front sight was cast from pot metal and lost its bluing easily through wear. The rear sight elevation screw has one slot rather than the "X" slot configuration on the Remingtons. The bolt was made with fewer machining operations, and its lower surface is solid. The barrel was not cut with the gas-escape slots that Remington chose to utilize early-on. The barrel support is marked "FRENTE" instead of "FRONT." The ejector has no holes in it. The buttplate carries the CBC-in-an-oval trademark, and other maker identification. There is a matte finish on the pistol grip cap, with no logo or trademark. The barrel is marked over the chamber with "CBC" in an oval and "22 L.R." in a straight line. A different plastic material of unknown quality was used for the stock/receiver component. The production quantity is unknown. Remington had an interest in CBC until 1981 when the Brazilian government took over the company, so there were Remington-knowledgeable people there. In 1991, Magtech Recreational Products, Inc. obtained the importation rights and marketed the same rifle for a short while as the "Magtech Model MT-66." These rifles are often confused for genuine Nylon 66s. Since they were not as carefully made as the originals, these Brazilian clones have little interest or collector value. Still, good-condition specimens should be a part of a complete collection. Last suggested retail price for the F.I.E. GR-8 was $136 in 1990, while the Magtech MT-66 was introduced in 1991 for 109.95, a substantial reduction. I have samples of each, but only for comparison's sake.

Hope this helps.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Nylon 66's were made in Canada for a while, in Quebec I believe.

That was some move by Remington. Introducing a 'plastic gun' well before the adoption of the m-16, which had plenty of detractors for its use of plastic. Looks like they came up with a real winner.

As I pointed out in the article, the Nylon 66 almost never came about, as there was a lot of resistance by some members of Remington's management to enter into anything so radical. All credit must go to Wayne Leek (now deceased), who lobbied very hard to have the management approve his team's incredible efforts to perfect the gun. Over the life of the 66, only two functional improvements were made. The first was to put some gas escape channels in the breech of the barrel to allow gas from a possible split case head to exit without damage to the firer. The second was the addition of a sheet metal support for the barrel, which was mated with the yoke that retained the barrel in position. This made barrel support more uniform, and increased the already great accuracy of the arm. One side was marked "FRONT" so that it could be oriented correctly in reassembly. These changes took place early in production, and guns that lack these changes are hard to find now. The gun illustrated in the OP is one of those early guns.

As a side note, years ago I was in correspondence with Wayne Leek's son, who reminisced about his father's experiments with full-automatic Nylon 66s for the military. He remembers taking one such gun out in the country for a test fire, and that it ripped off 14 rounds VERY quickly! I suspect that type never got off the ground because of the tubular magazine, which was slow to load.



Leek was an innovator, and was the brains and impetus behind many Remington products of that era. One of them was the radical XP-100 single shot pistol in .221 Fire Ball caliber. This was the first mass produced hunting single shot pistol, and used the Remington 700 short action. The Zytel stock it used was a direct spinoff of the Nylon 66 series. The fore-end tip of the stock and the front sight were pure Nylon 66, and it also had the "Buck Rogers" aura about it.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Got one a age 15-it was stolen 19 years later-no wonder they called it "the trappers Gun" it never missed a lick. I would really like another one , but oh well...

I'd always been fascinated by the Nylon 66, but as a kid, couldn't afford it nor the many rounds of ammo I would have no doubt shot through it.

As an adult, I found a green-stocked 66 at a gun show, marked "JC Higgins" (most of you will recall that many firearms manufactured models for Sears, Wards, various hardware stores, and so on). I hunted and plinked with it, but a few years later, someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse.

Another one of those "I should'a never sold it" stories.....

My first firearm is my 1964 Nylon 66. My grandfather bought it new and gave it to me before he passed.

It has been well loved and recently I had the barrel threaded to used it with my suppressor. All you hear is the action cycle!



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I bought one a few years ago in a pawn shop for a great price. I should have bought one long ago. I fell in love with it and was happy I bought it. Dead-nuts reliable. I have no doubt it will outlast me and go to my Grandson.

Definately a gun worth buying.

Didn't you post a similar article several years ago Paladin? I remember reading those charts before.
Last time I read it I ended up buying four of the 66s and two 77s. I kept a mint brown standard model which I can't miss with. Great little guns, way ahead of their time.

I taught both my Granddaughters to shoot with a Nylon 66. Funny, the ballerina wasn't interested in shooting until I put that Remington in her hands and she started putting them in the black. Couldn't get it away from her after that. I'm looking for a 76 lever action now. That was my first gun and it disappeared while I was in the service.

Yes, I posted those charts some time ago, but I think some folks with interest in the guns had not seen them, so I put them up here. I had put off doing an article on the Nylons for a long while, because I didn't want to blunt a possible book, but the prospect for a compendium book of my articles is becoming seriously brighter now, and I'd hate not to include these classic guns.

I'm still playing footsie with the prospect of a book devoted solely to the entire Nylon series. We'll see.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Very nice! Although few decide to customize them, the Nylon 66s can be so treated. The one pictured below was my very first Nylon 66 - a Black Diamond made in April, 1980. I bought it at a gun show for $60 - and it was literally filled with sand, as though it had been neglected on a beach for years. I stripped it as best I knew then, and sprayed the innards with WD-40 to get rid of the sand. I wiped it off, loaded it up, and voila! It went through 14 rounds of high speed hollow points without a hitch. That was amazing to me - I never saw anything that reliable after such neglect. The stock was beat up, so in later years I decided this would be my knockabout "tacticool" Nylon. I scoped it, put a G.I. sling on it, fitted a threaded adaptor to it, and topped it off with an M16 flash suppressor. I have other collector-quality Nylons, but this one is a WORKING gun, fit for the desert around here, and I don't worry about dinging it up.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -