Unusal guns of Vietnam

mg357 · Sep 16, 2014

The U.S. Army designation for the Remington 700 was M24. But it did not receive this designation until 1988.

From 1972-1988. the M-21 was used.

it is a sniper rifle variation on the M14.

I am willing to bet that the Remington 700 seen in that Documentary was a civilian model pressed into service as a sniper rifle.

I sincerely Hope that this post has Not hijacked the thread or messed it up.

Camster · Sep 16, 2014

I don't know if this was an unusual weapon for a Navy Seal to use,but I know one that was there,and he used a Stoner .308.

Gunhacker · Sep 16, 2014

REM 3200 said:
The "Hushpuppy" was a suppressed High Standard .22lr semi-auto pistol.

The High Standard Model HD was the 1st "Hush Puppy", made during WWII. The Vietnam version was the S&W 39/39-2... aka the Mark 22 Mod 0.

Found these on the interweb some time ago. If the rear sight looks familiar it's because it was the basis for the "winged" adjustable rear sight that found their way on the production models. Originally the wings were to protect the conspicuously elevated rear sight, necessary for sighting over the top of the can.

Voyager28 · Sep 16, 2014

mg357 said:
The U.S. Army designation for the Remington 700 was M24. But it did not receive this designation until 1988.

From 1972-1988. the M-21 was used.

it is a sniper rifle variation on the M14.

I am willing to bet that the Remington 700 seen in that Documentary was a civilian model pressed into service as a sniper rifle.

I sincerely Hope that this post has Not hijacked the thread or messed it up.

Not exactly. While the M-24 is based on the Rem 700 it is a long action rifle and is considered a SWS (Sniper Weapons System). Even though it was a long action it was chambered for the NATO 7.62, not 30-06 as some thought.

The first Rem 700s were designated M40A1 and were just standard 700 ADLs or BDLs. It was a short action .308 so would fire NATO 7.62 rounds. The M40A1 predated the M-24 by 25 years.

The M-21 was indeed a Match Grade M-14. But it wasn't fielded until 1969 as I was rotating back to CONUS. I would have loved to have gotten my hands on one. As god as the M-40 was, the 21 would have been awesome.

Bob

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Saigon1965 · Sep 16, 2014

Some photos I've filed away for my collection -

A pile of Type 53s -

A pile of French MAS 36s -

Some bolt stuff in here somewhere -

A pile of bolt guns -

Some Aussies -

Per a few comments above regarding this configuration -

One of my favorite photo -

Engine49guy · Sep 16, 2014

IIRC the original Bushmaster bullpup rifles (utilizing as many M16 parts as possible) were designed for helicopter pilots to engage targets from either seat.

Cyrano · Sep 16, 2014

vipermd said:
Why??? I am not EOD but would the C-4 even burn from ignition of a primer?? I would think that double, triple load of standard powder, seat the bullet deep with a very heavy crimp, would make for some FUN? Be Safe,

As I understand it, the case was packed full of C4. It went off just fine with the rifle primer, and would cut an AK 47 in half. I've seen pictures. I think both sides use this trick against the other.

There were lots of Russian captured kar 98Ks, called 'Stalingrad rifles'. They had an extra number engraved on the bolt, probably applied in Russian for accounting purposes. I've seen these too. Some came back to the states.

After WW II, Mauser Werke wound up in the French zone. In addition to lots of other things, France assembled from parts a bunch of the latest version of the Kar 98K, and used them for forestry guards. I doubt any got to Indo China. (Other things: about 60,000 P 38s, svw 45 and svw 46; HScs; WTP2, some Lugers, including a few with 8 inch barrels; and some training rifles that later became the MAS 45.)

Ross3914 · Sep 17, 2014

Just about everything at one time or another was captured. There was an Army Field Manual on weapons used by the VC and it had everything from 1917 Enfileds, to Winchester 1895's in 7.62x54R, to French stuff, to the more common SKS/AK and to the workshop built guns. Pretty much anything, especially earlier in the war. Later in the war, you will see more standard AK/SKS, etc because of the political forces in play at the time.

When the Soviets invaded Afghanistan, I remember watching Dan Rather wandering the hills with the Muj. They had a Lewis gun and a bunch of Enfields. Later on you see AK's provided by various sources or captured, but early on it's "run what you brung". Same thing in Vietnam.

Ross3914 · Sep 17, 2014

Back then, sniper programs weren't what they are now. Not many resources were devoted to snipers. At the beginning of US involvement in Vietnam, the standard sniper rifle was the M1C/D.

The Marine Corps had an advantage in better doctrine, but they had to actually field M1's early on, and used many target rifles, such as Carlos Hathcock's Winchester Model 70, to begin with. The Marine Corps finally got the M40 out, though it had some problems early on.

The Army had virtually no doctrine. No training, no schools, nothing. The Army had required the M14 be able to mount a scope, but ten years after it's adoption, the Army hadn't bothered to even design a scope mount for it. There was no Army sniper program frankly.

In-country Army units established their own schools. Had their own troops build up M14's. Locally designed and fabricated scope mounts and obtained whatever scopes they could. Big Army finally got going on it, and the result was the M21. The Army stuck with a semi over a bolt in part because of the human waves it had faced in Korea. After Vietnam, the Army pretty much dropped anything to do with sniping. A couple units maintained their own schools and along with the AMTU tried to keep the idea alive until sniping was resurrected in the Army in the 80's.

So it wasn't like today where the value of snipers is recognized by the services. A 700ADL with a PX bought Bushnell scope is absolutely believable.

lowriderfxr · Sep 17, 2014

One of my favorite photo -

[/QUOTE]

Looks like that American is training the pants off of those Vietnamese.

Thanks to all who served. I was 10 in 1973.

Shorty 45 MK2 · Sep 17, 2014

I didn't serve in Vietnam (I'm in my 20's) but my Grandpa did.

He was issued a M3 and 1911, but he also carried S&W m49 and a "small .22 pistol". I assume he brought or got these while over there. He can't remember what pistol the .22 was.

This has been a great thread. Thanks to those who served and those who have shared.

Texas Star · Sep 17, 2014

Shorty 45 MK2 said:
I didn't serve in Vietnam (I'm in my 20's) but my Grandpa did.

He was issued a M3 and 1911, but he also carried S&W m49 and a "small .22 pistol". I assume he brought or got these while over there. He can't remember what pistol the .22 was.

This has been a great thread. Thanks to those who served and those who have shared.

Was he in tanks? The .45 auto and M-3 sounds like it.

ironhead7544 · Sep 17, 2014

Engine49guy said:
IIRC the original Bushmaster bullpup rifles (utilizing as many M16 parts as possible) were designed for helicopter pilots to engage targets from either seat.

The original was in .221 Fireball.

Voyager28 · Sep 17, 2014

Ross3914 said:
The Marine Corps had an advantage in better doctrine, but they had to actually field M1's early on, and used many target rifles, such as Carlos Hathcock's Winchester Model 70, to begin with. The Marine Corps finally got the M40 out, though it had some problems early on.

The Army had virtually no doctrine. No training, no schools, nothing. The Army had required the M14 be able to mount a scope, but ten years after it's adoption, the Army hadn't bothered to even design a scope mount for it. There was no Army sniper program frankly.

The irony is that the sniper that had the most confirmed kills in Vietnam was an Army guy. Hathcock was #3 or #4 on the list.

Bob

30-30remchester · Sep 17, 2014

Cyrano said:
As I understand it, the case was packed full of C4. It went off just fine with the rifle primer, and would cut an AK 47 in half. I've seen pictures rifles'.

From my limited research, the chemists had a difficult time coming up with an explosive for the rifle cartridges that resembled gun powder. They wanted it to be a normal looking cartridge if it was pulled apart for inspection.
I have heard of 1 helicopter pilot that carried a Colt Woodsman 22 caliber and a hundred rounds of ammo instead issue firearms.

THE PILGRIM · Sep 17, 2014

Engine49guy said:
IIRC the original Bushmaster bullpup rifles (utilizing as many M16 parts as possible) were designed for helicopter pilots to engage targets from

Do you have any information that it was ever purchased or issued?
Don't think it ever was. It was a pie in the sky.

When you are fighting Commies or folks supplied by Commies, I don't find it unusual to see them use Commy weapons.
I think the most unusual (unexpected) we have seen on this thread so far is the 98 Mauser. Didn't see that one coming!

Voyager28 · Sep 17, 2014

30-30remchester said:
From my limited research, the chemists had a difficult time coming up with an explosive for the rifle cartridges that resembled gun powder. They wanted it to be a normal looking cartridge if it was pulled apart for inspection.
I have heard of 1 helicopter pilot that carried a Colt Woodsman 22 caliber and a hundred rounds of ammo instead issue firearms.

Project Eldest Son was initiated by a SOG Colonel named Singlaub in 1966. By the time I got there in December of 1967 it had been going on for a while.

The information we were given at the time was that the explosive actually used was formulated at a CIA lab in Okinawa. Don't know if that was true or not but I do know, for a fact, that the "sabotaged" munitions were transported from Okinawa (Kadina AFB) where they had been uncrated, buggered and then re-crated. This work was most certainly done by the CIA on the island.

Placement was accomplished by various SOG units in country. The most difficult to place was the mortar rounds because they were so damn heavy to carry. Sometimes we'd carry that stuff around for a week or two until we found a suitable cache to place them in.

After the Khe Sanh party was over there were several 82MM mortars found with nothing left but the base plate.

Bob

PS: By the way, John Singlaub was a born again bad ***. I think he eventually rose to 3 Star.

walnutred · Sep 17, 2014

Voyager28 said:
Remington 700 was also know as the M40A1 Sniper rifle. Is was mounted with a Redfield 3-9 Accurange scope. It was a pretty good combo and 800 meter kill shots weren't all that difficult with the right conditions.

Bob

One of the rifles I sometimes regret NOT purchasing was a very rough Remington 700 with scope that a Columbus gun shop had in the late 1980's. The rifle had the bring back papers and a letter by the person who brought it home explaining how the rifle was found in a hut during a sweep. There was a copy of the documents from Remington where the rifle was sold to the US Navy, a copy of the work order sending the rifle to a Navy ordinance shop for fine tuning and a copy of the document transferring the rifle from the Navy to the USMC. While I'm sure the USMC knew who the rifle was last issued to they were not releasing that information. Like I said though, I only sometimes regret not buying that rifle.

.455Eley · Sep 17, 2014

I've posted it before, but my Great Uncle acquired a model 48 to shoot snakes on the Da Nang runways. He couldn't carry his Colt 601 and load bombs on the B52s at the same time.

He also told me about the time an Aussie officer made him and his men outfit a Jeep with a 20mm Cannon, lol

THE PILGRIM · Sep 17, 2014

.455Eley said:
I've posted it before, but my Great Uncle acquired a model 48 to shoot snakes on the Da Nang runways. He couldn't carry his Colt 601 and load bombs on the B52s at the same time.

He also told me about the time an Aussie officer made him and his men outfit a Jeep with a 20mm Cannon, lol

Where was he stationed? The B-52s flew from Anderson AFB, Guam.
Any B-52 that ever landed at Da Nang was shot up and limping in.

Unusal guns of Vietnam

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