Need help on, Rock Ola carbines and WWII Springfields.

the ringo kid · Nov 23, 2015

Need help from those knowledgeable on these two rifles. I went to Saturdays gun show and as usual, fell in love with some rifles. In this case, one was really in peachy condition and its stock has the straight grip. This one is a 1903 A3 Springfield 30.06 made in November 43. Its matching and everything correct. This seller has it for $850.00. The rifle is screaming to come home with me.

The other is a Rock Ola M1 carbine and in good shape but not as nice as the Springfield. This one is priced at $1,850.00. I know Rock Ola made fewer carbines than some but, am aware they made about half a million.

I was wondering what you gents think of the prices providing what I can give young above? I didn't take pics as I think its against gun show rulkes.

bgrafsr · Nov 23, 2015

Does the Rock-Ola have a type 1 band (narrow and no bayonet lug), and the flip sight? Type 1 bands and the flip sight bases are faked quite a bit. How is the stock and handguard marked? At one time I had close to 20 Carbines from all the manufacturers, but I got burned out with collecting them and sold everything I had related to Carbines.

You need to look at a copy of Ruth's War Baby book, for a detailed summation of the Rock-Ola Carbines.

If the gun is authentic, than the $1850.00 is a good price.

M1A · Nov 23, 2015

First let me say that I will not pass up something I really want for the price of a fancy dinner.
I think the A303 is about right with a good bore. You need to check the serial # to determine if the receiver and barrel are dated close. The date on the barrel with the flaming bomb is the barrel date. Bore condition?
I paid less for mine, which I shoot a lot, but it has the scant stock. BTW is the stock stamped at all? Does it match the fore stock?
The M1 carbine as manufactured by David Rockola's company is sought after and can go for more money if in very good condition. Condition is everything. As mentioned buyer beware.
Someone will be along who knows way more than I.

the ringo kid · Nov 23, 2015

bgrafsr said:
Does the Rock-Ola have a type 1 band (narrow and no bayonet lug), and the flip sight? Type 1 bands and the flip sight bases are faked quite a bit. How is the stock and handguard marked? At one time I had close to 20 Carbines from all the manufacturers, but I got burned out with collecting them and sold everything I had related to Carbines.

You need to look at a copy of Ruth's War Baby book, for a detailed summation of the Rock-Ola Carbines.

If the gun is authentic, than the $1850.00 is a good price.

Thanks Bill, and to be honest, I don't know what markings but, it does have bayonet lug. The seller had two for sale that were Rock Olas, and one that I think was a Postal Meter? Thanks for the heads up on the book, I will look for a copy.

the ringo kid · Nov 23, 2015

M1A said:
First let me say that I will not pass up something I really want for the price of a fancy dinner.
I think the A303 is about right with a good bore. You need to check the serial # to determine if the receiver and barrel are dated close. The date on the barrel with the flaming bomb is the barrel date. Bore condition?
I paid less for mine, which I shoot a lot, but it has the scant stock. BTW is the stock stamped at all? Does it match the fore stock?
The M1 carbine as manufactured by David Rockola's company is sought after and can go for more money if in very good condition. Condition is everything. As mentioned buyer beware.
Someone will be along who knows way more than I.

Thank you and the Springfield's bore is in great shape. I can't rememberr if the stock was marked? I was drooling over these and the Garand this guy had for sale. The next gun show is DEC 12 & 13, and ill find out more then. Or, I just remembered, I have sellers contact info at home and will post info here soon as I can reach him to ask more.

M1A · Nov 23, 2015

I have WWII A303 and Garand. Keeps me from reloading so many different calibers. Though these battle rifles do need different loading specs at least the dies etc. are the same. Great iron sights.
you might like to do some searching on Military Surplus Collectors Forums

DWalt · Nov 23, 2015

the ringo kid said:
Thanks Bill, and to be honest, I don't know what markings but, it does have bayonet lug. The seller had two for sale that were Rock Olas, and one that I think was a Postal Meter? Thanks for the heads up on the book, I will look for a copy.

During the post-WWII period, a great number of carbines were refurbished at Government arsenals and provided with click-adjustable rear sights and bayonet studs. When these were overhauled, there was no attempt to keep original components together, and it may have many parts which are not original to it. $1800 is steep unless you can prove that it is exactly as it was when it first left the factory during WWII. I don't remember for sure, but I believe that Rock Ola made only receivers, and other components came from elsewhere. Someone else may have the straight dope on Rock Ola carbines as my memory of carbine details is weak. Gone are the days when you could buy carbines and M1903A3s through DCM for less than $20 each. At one time I had two of each, and that's what I paid. I have only one carbine left, a Quality Hardware receiver with an Inland barrel, with the postwar bayonet stud and rear sight mods. I paid $40 for it back in the 1960s, including about 1000 rounds of GI ammo.

Wee Hooker · Nov 23, 2015

Sounds like you know what your looking at but for those who might not, it should be mentioned that new carbines are being built on new manufacture Rockola branded receivers by James River. Beautiful and functional rifles but not the real McCoy when it comes to collector value/prices.

wetdog · Nov 23, 2015

There were 2 makers of the 1903A3 rifles. Remington and Smith-Corona.
In like condition the Smith will be a little higher priced.

DWalt · Nov 23, 2015

There are also variations of the M1903A3, involving stock type (Type C pistol grip and straight grip), plus barrel rifling. 2-groove is most common, but there are also 4-groove and 6-groove barrels. The latter bring premium prices. I once had one 4-groove and one 6-groove. There is also the King of the Hill, which is the sniper version, with no front or rear sights and usually a scope mount (same as the M1903A3 otherwise, but called the A4). In top condition, the A4s can bring some awesome prices. See an A4 in "Saving Private Ryan."

the ringo kid · Nov 24, 2015

M1A said:
I have WWII A303 and Garand. Keeps me from reloading so many different calibers. Though these battle rifles do need different loading specs at least the dies etc. are the same. Great iron sights.
you might like to do some searching on Military Surplus Collectors Forums

Thank you and will be looking there soon as done here.

the ringo kid · Nov 24, 2015

DWalt said:
During the post-WWII period, a great number of carbines were refurbished at Government arsenals and provided with click-adjustable rear sights and bayonet studs. When these were overhauled, there was no attempt to keep original components together, and it may have many parts which are not original to it. $1800 is steep unless you can prove that it is exactly as it was when it first left the factory during WWII. I don't remember for sure, but I believe that Rock Ola made only receivers, and other components came from elsewhere. Someone else may have the straight dope on Rock Ola carbines as my memory of carbine details is weak. Gone are the days when you could buy carbines and M1903A3s through DCM for less than $20 each. At one time I had two of each, and that's what I paid. I have only one carbine left, a Quality Hardware receiver with an Inland barrel, with the postwar bayonet stud and rear sight mods. I paid $40 for it back in the 1960s, including about 1000 rounds of GI ammo.

Thanks for the above and that's what I'm thinking on this guys carbine--stories. I called and left a message last night, no call yet but might be out of town? I'm thinking of just making a deal on that Springfield. If I can swing it with trades? I may be going for one of his Garands as well. I know his Garands aren't all matching but, has all correct parts. Average price on these seem a bit high with one being about $800.00.

the ringo kid · Nov 24, 2015

Wee Hooker said:
Sounds like you know what your looking at but for those who might not, it should be mentioned that new carbines are being built on new manufacture Rockola branded receivers by James River. Beautiful and functional rifles but not the real McCoy when it comes to collector value/prices.

I'm a sucker for anything old, as correct as possible, military and affordable.

I've got the German guns covered, need to do the American counterparts.

the ringo kid · Nov 24, 2015

wetdog said:
There were 2 makers of the 1903A3 rifles. Remington and Smith-Corona.
In like condition the Smith will be a little higher priced.

I'm wondering if Springfield made and marked just the receivers? A forums gun show dealer is friends with this guy and is going to the next show here. Before I do anything, I'll have him look at the piece. Otherwise, I'm sticking to buying a Luger.

the ringo kid · Nov 24, 2015

DWalt said:
There are also variations of the M1903A3, involving stock type (Type C pistol grip and straight grip), plus barrel rifling. 2-groove is most common, but there are also 4-groove and 6-groove barrels. The latter bring premium prices. I once had one 4-groove and one 6-groove. There is also the King of the Hill, which is the sniper version, with no front or rear sights and usually a scope mount (same as the M1903A3 otherwise, but called the A4). In top condition, the A4s can bring some awesome prices. See an A4 in "Saving Private Ryan."

I think his rifiling is a two groove. I don't know if original or not? but he has an original scope on it----unless I'm getting crossed on that with one of his Garands? I was running late and about to leave.

DWalt · Nov 24, 2015

The A3 has a click-adjustable peep sight mounted on a dovetail on the rear receiver bridge. The A4 was the only one with a scope mount, and those did not have either front or rear iron sights, as they were obviously unnecessary on a sniper rifle. Unless this is an A4, there would be no original scope sight on it. And an A4 complete with an original scope (I believe they originally used a 2.5x Weaver during WWII) is a rare bird indeed. I believe someone is making repro A4 rifles from A3 receivers.

Frank46 · Nov 25, 2015

And if I remember right all the stampings on the receiver ring were offset to one side for the A4 sniper rifle. A4 sniper bolts are going for good money these days. I have one on a A3 that had the curve on the top of the bolt handle deepened and lengthed for scope use. Was on a bubba'd A3 I had rebarreled and lyman 57 rear and redfield ramp sight put on many many years ago. Just in case I ever shoot ont the new barrel have a new old stock smith corona aka high standard barrel.

The Ringo Kid, wouldn't by any chance live near Lafayette, Louisiana by any chance? Next gun show there is Dec 12-13. usually go on sundays less crowded, so if you see a fat guy with grey hair with a cane with international orange duct tape on it, that's me. Frank

DWalt · Nov 25, 2015

I think the A4 had a modified bolt handle shape to clear the scope. I don't know about the offset stamping. I once had a friend and neighbor who ordered an 03A3 from DCM. He received a new A4, and was very upset with it as it had no sights. He offered to sell it to me for $10. One of my stupider acts was to decline the offer, as I already had two A3s, with the aforementioned 4-groove and 6-groove barrels. I stupidly sold both of those quite a few years ago. One had a Type C stock, both in essentially as-new condition. I think both barrels were Smith Corona, had SC stamps on them.

Faulkner · Nov 26, 2015

the ringo kid said:
Thanks Bill, and to be honest, I don't know what markings but, it does have bayonet lug. The seller had two for sale that were Rock Olas, and one that I think was a Postal Meter? Thanks for the heads up on the book, I will look for a copy.

Ringo, I've been collecting M1 carbines for over 20 years and my feedback is you do not know enough to pay $1,850 for a M1 carbine no matter who made it. Yes, Rock-Ola's are more desirable on the collector market, and yes they are the rarest of the USGI carbines (not counting Irwin-Pederson, none of which were accepted by the U.S. government), but to me $1,850 sounds too low for a collector grade Rock-Ola and too high for a rack or shooter grade. I'll tell you this, if a Rock-Ola has a bayonet lug there's no way I'd pay $1,850.00 for it.

You really need a "carbine guy" to give it good once over before you shell out the big bucks on a M1 carbine. There are too many people in the "trade" who prey on the under-informed and uninitiated. I always tell people that if they're going to spend more than $700 or $800 on a USGI carbine they need to first invest 20 bucks in the book "US M1 Carbines: Wartime Production" by Craig Riesch. I think it's currently in it's 6th or 7th revision, but the one I have has saved me thousands of dollars in the long run.

the ringo kid · Dec 9, 2015

DWalt said:
The A3 has a click-adjustable peep sight mounted on a dovetail on the rear receiver bridge. The A4 was the only one with a scope mount, and those did not have either front or rear iron sights, as they were obviously unnecessary on a sniper rifle. Unless this is an A4, there would be no original scope sight on it. And an A4 complete with an original scope (I believe they originally used a 2.5x Weaver during WWII) is a rare bird indeed. I believe someone is making repro A4 rifles from A3 receivers.

Sorry it took so long to reply. I'm going to have at least six dealer friends look at it before I jump. The more I read, the more I'm thinking its been dressed up. I hope not? because I want it badly but???

Need help on, Rock Ola carbines and WWII Springfields.

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

Member

US Veteran

Member

Member

Member

Similar threads