Impressed with the quality of Uberti and Cimarron BP guns

sigp220.45

sigp220.45

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I started getting back into cap and ball revolvers when I came across a Ruger Old Army at a good price. They had just been discontinued and I had a muzzleoader deer hunt coming up so I snatched it up. I had a bit of a learning curve (http://smith-wessonforum.com/firear...s/398065-breaking-code-my-ruger-old-army.html) but it turned into one of my favorite guns.

I had owned some cheap brass-framed C&B revolvers before, so my impression of Italian BP guns wasn't great. Then I came across this Uberti Walker (marked as a Dragoon) at a local shop and was able to get it for $200 OTD, probably because it was so gummed up the cylinder wouldn't turn.



I got it apart, cleaned up some sticky goo, and it was good as new. Whatever was holding it up wasn't black powder residue, and the bore and chambers look unused.



I love Walkers. The idea of the two Sams (Walker and Colt) putting their heads together to make the perfect weapon for Texas horsemen to use against fearsome Comanche warriors and coming up this monster makes me smile. I appreciate the improvements made in the later Dragoons, but they just don't have the same appeal to me as these wonderful purpose-built man (and horse) killers.

The quality of this Uberti is readily apparent. The bluing and color case hardening are first rate, as is the wood-to-metal fit.





While I was picking it up, I saw this little guy in the case. Also $200 OTD, so I laid it away.



Also an Uberti, but imported by Cimarron. The store had it marked as a "Texas Model", but Cimarron calls it a Pocket Navy. Colt called them "The Pocket Model in Navy Caliber", and its also known as the 1862 Pocket Navy.



It's a five shot .36, meant to be an improvement in power over the 1849 Pocket .31 calibers. Its about the size of a Ruger Bearcat with a longer barrel.



I've read the Cimarrons are a step above the standard Ubertis in quality. This one is certainly a well made gun. Fit and finish are first rate.



Here's an idea of relative size.





I'd be interested to hear other's experiences with these newer imports, and opinions as to quality.
 
I bought a Uberti walker a couple of weeks ago. I haven't shot it yet because I'm waiting on a shipment of Swiss FFFg. I've never shot a BP revolver and I'm a little nervous to be honest. I've been doing a lot of reading and watching youtube videos. The cylinder gap is the smallest I've ever seen on any revolver.
 
Very nice. A Walker Dragoon and a Ruger Old Army are on my list. Right now I only have this Pietta 1858 that I actually picked on off the For Sale board here a number of years ago. Quality is quite good but I've not compared it to any other makes.

100_0012.jpg
 
I have a Uberti 1861 Navy and it is, IMHO, the best of any of the "Colt" percussion pistols. Balance and design are superb, and the Uberti is a great rendition of the original Colt design. Fit, finish and function are all excellent.

The first handgun I ever had was an original 1851 Colt Navy. It wasn't in the best shape and they weren't worth near as much back in those days, and I shot that thing a lot! I don't think the Uberti of today gives up anything to the originals in terms of build and finish.
 
The Uberti SAA are great replicas. Many of the parts actually fit a Colt. I've replaced some springs and screws as needed with Uberti parts.
 
The instructions on the Walker say to use .454 balls and the Old Army says to use .457 balls. I use the .457's in all my 44 C&B revolvers! They make a better gas seal and have a tiny bit more bearing surface. I tried Pyrodex RS, P, & CTG and found that real Black Powder in FFg & FFFG work much better for consistency and accuracy. The Walker was designed for a 200 grain Conical, with round balls they can hold more powder than a ball can handle, in other words a cylinder of FFg or FFFg will strip the ball and make about 40 cal holes all over you target. At 55 grains or less round balls will shoot about 4" at 25 yards out of all three of my Walkers. They shoot even better with lighter loads but, You will need to fill in under the ball with felt wads (I like Ox Yoak) or a lot of guys use Cream of Wheat. As long as you have no gap between the powder and the ball you can go pretty low on the charge. BUT why have a monster "Horse" gun and shout mouse loads. Things work out best if you use something for a Lube, either on/in the wads or over the ball. in weather below 70 degrees Crisco filling up the chamber works fine. Warm weather causes the Crisco to melt in your holster (YUCK), Make a lube of melted together Crisco and Paraffin 50/50.The lubes purpose is to keep the powder fouling soft, and that helps accuracy and cleaning! My best friend and I have Repro '58's and he has an Old army, I also have several Repro '61 Army's. The .457 balls from Hornady work great in all of them. Too small of ball can cause "chain fire", and that is literally a pain!

SASS safety rules don't allow the muzzle to climb all the way to the top, place thumb on hammer and allow muzzle weight to pull gun into firing position with hammer cocked. However if you are at an outdoor range that will allow it, you will find that it is surprisingly easy and spent caps fall away instead of in the action.

Walkers are very heavy and long, they don't hang and draw from a belt well. But they are an absolute riot to shoot. They are worth the trouble of placing water filled jugs on the range, and cleaning up the remains!

Have fun, Ivan
 
Uberti makes some real find black powder guns (much improved over the Navy Arms and Replica Arms revolvers that were prevalent in the 1960s and 70s). This is a little off topic but I got a bad cartridge gun that was manufactured by Uberti and sold by a different distributor. It was a pretty little Low Wall single shot replica in .32-20 but it had a bad chamber. (See the 2 empty cartridges on the right). The distributor agreed that it was badly chambered and insisted on sending to Italy for a new barrel. It took about 5 months to get the gun back and by then my desire for any more Uberti products had cooled.
 

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There was one more Uberti at the shop, on consignment from the same guy. Same price as the others, so I decided not to break up the family.

Its an 1851 Navy -



Same high quality fit and finish as the others -



Horse pistol, belt pistol, pocket pistol -





Gotta go dirty 'em up soon.
 
I have tended to buy Piettas from Cabelas. I found them functional. I particularly liked the 5.5" bbl 1858 Remington clone. It stood up well to very heavy duplex BP/Pyrodex pellet loads. I would put in a bit of black powder, a Pyrodex revolver pellet, then add as much additional BP as would physically fit.

My current BP project gun is a brass frame Pietta 1851 .44 "Confederate" that I cut into an Avenging Angel. I think the current and reasonably recent Pietta brass frames will stand up to circa 25 to 30 grains. That is what I have been loading it with. If I load it beyond 25 grains that gun really spits fire.

My Uberti "sort of" 3rd Gen Colt 1860 shot loose. But it was made 20 odd years ago. It was a beautiful gun. Until I broke it.

I use German black powder sold by Grafs.

I load my guns without wads or lube. I had to switch to Remington Number 10 caps. The CCI Number 11s would come off under heavy recoil.
 
What a deal on all of them, especially the Walker. I bought my first "Walker" two weeks ago. Also a Uberti. It was $265 shipped but it had replaced two piece grips (with anchor pin in grip frame to keep them in place). I've only shot my Uberti 1860 Army .44 and love it. And I thought my Dragoon was big...

With a copy of the famous "Musso Bowie"...






My 2nd model Dragoon in a holster I made for someone else.


John Gren .44 special conversion, black powder only. Gun has all Colt stamps. An excellent shooter.


NIB Pietta .44 I just got for $50...

And farther along in history, an Armi San Marco .45. Pictured here with a 1911 vintage Colt SAA hammer in it...


 
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GatorFarmer said:
I have tended to buy Piettas from Cabelas. I found them functional. I particularly liked the 5.5" bbl 1858 Remington clone. It stood up well to very heavy duplex BP/Pyrodex pellet loads. I would put in a bit of black powder, a Pyrodex revolver pellet, then add as much additional BP as would physically fit.

My current BP project gun is a brass frame Pietta 1851 .44 "Confederate" that I cut into an Avenging Angel. I think the current and reasonably recent Pietta brass frames will stand up to circa 25 to 30 grains. That is what I have been loading it with. If I load it beyond 25 grains that gun really spits fire.

My Uberti "sort of" 3rd Gen Colt 1860 shot loose. But it was made 20 odd years ago. It was a beautiful gun. Until I broke it.

I use German black powder sold by Grafs.

I load my guns without wads or lube. I had to switch to Remington Number 10 caps. The CCI Number 11s would come off under heavy recoil.
Click to expand...

Did you try finger pinching the CCI caps?
 
Wyatt Burp said:
What a deal on all of them, especially the Walker. I bought my first "Walker" two weeks ago. Also a Uberti. It was $265 shipped but it had replaced two piece grips (with anchor pin in grip frame to keep them in place). I've only shot my Uberti 1860 Army .44 and love it. And I thought my Dragoon was big...

With a copy of the famous "Musso Bowie"...






My 2nd model Dragoon in a holster I made for someone else.


John Gren .44 special conversion, black powder only. Gun has all Colt stamps. An excellent shooter.


NIB Pietta .44 I just got for $50...

And farther along in history, an Armi San Marco .45. Pictured here with a 1911 vintage Colt SAA hammer in it...


Click to expand...


I especially like your side by side comparison of the Dragoon and the M-1860 .44. A new, stronger, steel let Colt greatly reduce the size and keep .44 caliber.

I think the 1860 New Army .44 was the best of the Colt percussion guns. I mean for a full size service revolver. Their Model 1862 .36 Police with 5.5-inch bbl. is my favorite of the smaller ones.

I once held both the Army .44 and a New Model .36 Navy (M-1861) at once and realized that the .36 was about as heavy and hit less hard.

I do feel that Uberti arms are better made and finished than those from Armi San Marco or Pietta. I have a Colt .44 and a .44 Remington from Pietta and owned a Colt .44 Uberti. If I buy any more, they'll be Uberti's, probably from some importer that requires them to do their best work.

If I'd lived in the 1860's, I'd have wanted both Colt and Remington arms. Whitney's were also evidently good, and the Adams and Tranter imports. I think the American SA guns probably had more durable lockwork than the British DA guns, but at average combat ranges, the Adams and Tranter hit hard and could be fired DA. That was thought to be very desirable in close quarter battle in the Crimea and in India, in the Sepoy Rebellion, where the .36 Colt was found to be lacking in stopping power. Much the same was true of the .38 Special in later years. BTW, Frederick (?) Beaumont invented selective DA actions about 1855.

From what Elmer Keith wrote about the .36 as used in the Civil War, if you loaded round balls at higher velocity, the .36 killed a lot better than if you loaded the 140 grain conical bullets. He got that info from old vets still living, who'd used percussion revolvers in their heyday. Elmer found his .36 Navy very effective on small game. I bet he loaded those 80 grain balls.
 
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I have had Uberti revolvers, both C&B and cartridge since the early 70s. An Uberti was actually my first handgun purchase. The quality has been consistent over the years.

Kevin
 
Richard Simmons said:
Very nice. A Walker Dragoon and a Ruger Old Army are on my list. Right now I only have this Pietta 1858 that I actually picked on off the For Sale board here a number of years ago. Quality is quite good but I've not compared it to any other makes.

100_0012.jpg
Click to expand...

I have one of these too. Also with a Taylor's conversion cylinder to shoot 45LC. I'm becoming more interested in BP........Shooting a Walker would be fun!!
 
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