Surface rust on a Remington 870 Wingmaster

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Whitwabit

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Moderators If this is the wrong forum please move to the correct one ..

Friend found a Remington 870 Wingmaster in his Father-in-laws closet .. was lying on the floor in a cloth gun case and the receive has some surface rust on it on the side that was lying next to the floor and is wondering the best way to remove it before seeing about having it reblued .. but might also not have it blued all according to the cost of doing so .. they're just undecided right now ..

It was bought somewhere around 1975 they think so around 40 years old but are not really sure .. No one even knew he had one .. found it going through his things after he was put in a nursing home because of a stroke and he is unable to tell them anything about it ..

After seeing it it doesn't appear to be pitted and is light but can feel the roughness of the rust on it .. friend had oiled it when they found it so that might be covering the color of the rust .. also the barrel and the other side is ok which surprised me .. the barrel has no rust on either the inside bore or on the out side .. in fact it really doesn't look like it has been shot or shot very little .. the stock doesn't have any nicks or dings in the wood and is really nice looking ..

What is the best way to remove it .. Seems I remember reading to use copper wool to remove the rust but can't find any good articles on doing so .. or would you use emery cloth ?

Any help would be appreciated and will relay the info to him .. they want to keep it as he doesn't have anything of value to save to remind them of him ..
 
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I have removed light small flecks with the plastic mesh that oranges come in using a light oil. If you can find a brass wool like the above poster says it will do a better job, but if its just very light the plastic mesh will work. Hope they are able to bring it back. Jeff
 
snake803 said:
NO emory cloth!!!!
use Kroil and copper or brass wool...Keep the surface wet.... Check the wool with a magnet to assure it's not plated steel....
God luck,
JIM.............
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My wife has a cooper pad looks something like a SOS pad with out the soap she uses on the cooper bottom pans that use to be her mothers is that what you mean ?? I just checked one with a magnet and its must not be steel as it will not stick to the magnet ..
 
Go into the gunsmithing forum and search "surface rust". There are many threads on the subject. Not that you aren't getting good advice here but over there are many threads for your reading pleasure.
 
I have restored many guns in my time...my suggestion, as someone who often has to "slide in behind" an individual who thinks he is saving some money by "fixing" it himself, is that you don't touch it and leave it to the experts. "Let Jessie rob the train" so to speak.
Now, that said, if I had followed that advice I wouldn't be a smith today, so at least you are taking the time to try and figure out how...first off, there is zero chance you can "remove" rust alone and have the gun look like it should. Next, if you simply take your hand and rub on it with some type of abrasive you will undoubtedly get waves in the surface. That you do not want, because then it will cost you more to have it fixed. If you really want to do some of your own prep for this repair get yourself a large flat file and wrap it with 220 grit wet or dry sandpaper. This will allow you to keep the surface flat. What you do not want is to be able to look across what should be a big flat polished surface and see it wavy. Keep the sandpaper wrapped file nice and flat as you polish and do not let it roll over the edges or you will end up loosing the nice sharp edge lines. If that happens and you end up rounding the corners it is near impossible to fix.
Once you have ALL the marks of rust and/or pits gone with the 220 you can move to 320 and then to 400. Keep all your sanding lines going the same direction. Finally, buff the metal with polishing compound on a buffing wheel and oil it up so it cannot rust again until you get it to the bluing tank.
People don't understand restoring metal...it takes several hours to polish it right. That is where the work and money is. It takes about 20 minutes to turn it deep dark blue if you have the proper equipment. Be careful when you go poking around looking for a smith to blue the gun if you do all the polishing...some will try to overcharge you just to blue the thing and make an "easy hit"!!!!! Good luck.
 
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Certainly worth removing the rust and having it restored to original in my book. An old 870 Wingmaster is a fine shotgun and quite expensive new today. Nice walnut and high polish bluing are expensive options today.
 
mauser9 said:
Certainly worth removing the rust and having it restored to original in my book. An old 870 Wingmaster is a fine shotgun and quite expensive new today. Nice walnut and high polish bluing are expensive options today.
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Yes sir, I agree. The Wingmaster is one of, if not, the finest pump shotgun ever made. Many people will try to say this about the Winchester model 12, and it is a nice gun made with every bit the craftsmanship of the 870...but the 870 trumps all with its design as well as quality.
I can remember when you could still buy 20ga model 12's at gunshows for $200-$250...now they are in the $1500 range. The exact same thing has happened to the Wingmaster. Try to find an old 20ga with the chrome plated carrier and a vent rib!!! Let alone buy it!!!
 
Agree msinc!! Often darn tough out my way to find what were "run of the mill" guns which we took for granted 35 years back. Said it before but I believe many folks are holding onto guns like 870s and 1100s as they were still quality built with all the decent features
 
Whitwabit,

You can always go the more aggressive rout later, but please try using Kroil penetrating oil and bronze wool first. Bronze wool can be found at marine supply stores or online. Wet the bronze wool with the Kroil and be sure to keep it wet as you work, applying as much pressure as needed to remove the iron oxide as you rub. Stubborn rust scale can sometimes also be "pushed" off the surface of the steel using the edge of an old copper penny (not the newer copper plated zinc pennies). Take your time, and practice first on an old rusty hand tool if you're uncertain... The Remington WingMasters from that time period are classics.
 
Thanks for all the responses will tell them its worth being taken to a gunsmith to have them do it .. he's not really a gun guy and I told him I wouldn't even attempt to do it .. that's what he wanted me to do .. I refused ..

I talked to him again this evening and not sure why .. but he thinks the date code on it is Mar 1973 .. so a little older then what I said it was .. its a 20 gauge with out the rail on the barrel just a bead on the end of the barrel .. the wood on it is very nice .. don't think there is a ding any where on it .. sad it has the rust on it .. the inside of the barrel is pristine .. I really don't think it has been been shot .. I told him to look for a box that it came in ..

I haven't really looked it over but just a quick once over .. When I told him I wasn't near qualified to do something like that .. I wouldn't even want to try .. It looks like it would have been a very nice gun when it was new ..
 
At the last gun show I bought a neglected Ithaca 37 in 12 gauge. I checked the SN and it is from 1976. I think it was last oiled then.

I the bbl off and opened the magazine tube. All was shiny inside. Minor thing, the magazine spring was toast, just got a new one from Ithaca.

There are a couple of small pitted areas on the bbl and over all it looked like rust city. I took a plain kitchen paper towel, sprayed the metal parts and just rubbed it down with the towel and oil. You will be amazed at how it changed from rust to hey there is blue here.

I will let the oil soak and redo it, if necessary use oil soaked bronze wool.

Never use the synthetic green kitchen pads as they eat finishes. My daughter, when in college, used the kitchen pad to remove tar from her car fenders and doors. I now own a high speed orbital sander to polish cars. Just been used once....

I have bought many hopeless guns for projects, one must start with cleaning and oil to see what you have.

Done correctly a reblue may not be needed. And a reblue will hurt any collector value, add high cost to the gun and possibly is not needed.

Clean it, find out what you have and good luck with your final decision.

Oh, my Dad got his Dad's Trapdoor Springfield, it had the rusty finish, Dad worked it down and had it reblued. Dad refinished the stock. It looks like a sparkling new 1970 Manufacture gun but all the original is gone.
 
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any round figure what someone might or would charge to restore it .. so I could give him an idea what it would cost .. Wish I had some pictures to post but its not mine .. If I see it again I take a picture with my phone of the rust and post it here ..
 
I have two police shotguns on wingmaster actions.One has a 18" bbl and the other had a 20" bbl. Both were literally covered with rust. Soaked the area heavily with break free and let it soak in while I was doing something else. I use 4/0 or 0000 steel wool. so I started using circular motions and after an hour wiped everything on the receiver with paper towels. That had removed the heavy stuff. Repeated again and rubbed a little harder this time. wiped it down again. Beautiful blued steel evidently the rust had not been on the metal as long as I thought.then proceeded to do the barrel and again got blued steel. A good wipedown with a rag soaked in breakfree showed no residual rust. And so it went with both shotguns.Only had a problem with one of the shotguns. There was a rather big burr on the bootom of the receiver and couldn't figure out what to do about it. Jerry's books to the rescue. Seems the previous owner never kept the mag cap screwed down tight. this allowed the barrel to slam into the receiver and that was the cause of the big burr. Took some 220 silicone carbide paper backed by a toolmakers stone and proceeded to first sand down as much as I could.By the time I got to the 600 grit the burr was gone and all I was doing was polishing metal. Function tested it and no problems. The other shotgun cleaned up just as well as the first. I've sho both of them and they fire and function perfectly. Frank
 
Whitwabit said:
any round figure what someone might or would charge to restore it .. so I could give him an idea what it would cost .. Wish I had some pictures to post but its not mine .. If I see it again I take a picture with my phone of the rust and post it here ..
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Well...this is rough and "location sensitive" but, $50.00 an hour to polish. A receiver like what you are describing could take several hours to disassemble, polish and degrease. $75.00 to $100.00 for the bluing tank, which should include reassembly. So it looks like $200.00 on the cheap end and maybe as high as $350-400 on the high side.
Sorry guys, we must not reckon rust and pits the same. I have been at this since the early 80's and have yet to see oil, any kind of "wool" and a little rubbing around make a rusted, pitted steel surface look new, let alone still have the factory bluing on it!!!
 
Could prove more costly is right. Just goes to show that a little care like cleaning, lubrication, and going over the metal with a rust preventative will prevent problems like this down the road. Nice to keep a fine investment in good shape for value and to pass down to a family member.
 
Copper and bronze wool are great.

Copper Chore Boy (kitchen scrubbers) work well.
They are all copper.
Problem - my local grocery no longer carries them.
May have to resort to LARGE order on the net.

Bekeart
 
Is it surface rust? Very light freckling? Or orange colored freckling that could be dried oil?

I would try simi chrome polish lightly first to determine what it is.

If you need to wash the barrel with rubbing alcohol, preheat with a hair dryer then use a cold bluing with a 0000 steel wool to apply it by rubbing it into the steel. After a few applications are applied and you have the desired depthness in the bluing apply one more application. It may lighten up when you wash and polish it.

I was sold guns were they said light freckling were it turned out to be dried oil. The gun has a 100% condition after I polished it. All three guns I purchased from the same seller was so called freckling was really from dried oil that was orange in color.
 
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msinc said:
Well...this is rough and "location sensitive" but, $50.00 an hour to polish. A receiver like what you are describing could take several hours to disassemble, polish and degrease. $75.00 to $100.00 for the bluing tank, which should include reassembly. So it looks like $200.00 on the cheap end and maybe as high as $350-400 on the high side.
Sorry guys, we must not reckon rust and pits the same. I have been at this since the early 80's and have yet to see oil, any kind of "wool" and a little rubbing around make a rusted, pitted steel surface look new, let alone still have the factory bluing on it!!!
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I like your specifics on getting the bluing, informative and good. And I agree rust and pits are not the same. Perhaps one might live with a few small pits vs bluing. Until it is cleaned, polished some and oiled we can not say what the owner wants.

In my case I did not specify factory new blue, if the rust is light surface saving the remaining blue is possible. Today bluing is rusting chemically as blue and rust were once united for the finish.

I have bought and redone guns since the 60's I have turned many from the proverbial sows ear to a silk purse using minimal restoration. And I know some sows ears will never be a silk purse

I think many here are suggested cleaning and light tries at polishing or minimal restoration to see what lies under the issues described.
 
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