I thought I would share my personal experience with a recent (and only) purchase through PSA.

On Sept 13 of this year, I bought an 18" 223 wylde upper in stainless with Magpul handguards from PSA for $279.00. I had been considering buying an upper from them for my duty/patrol rifle as I am a police officer, and wanted to upgrade my existing rifle.

I received the upper a couple weeks later, and although I knew it had a 30 day warrantee, due to my schedule (I work nights and a lot of mandatory overtime) I wasn't able to take it out and try to zero it for about 6 weeks. I attach it to a Rock River Arms A2 style lower with the match grade factory trigger and figure that, between the 223 wylde's reputation for accuracy, and the excellent Rock River trigger, I would have a highly accurate patrol rifle. Well...

Upon taking it to the range, I set up initially at 50 yards with a white target backer about 2' by 4' in size, with a standard mitary style rifle zeroing target to help me get started. My shooting buddy was on hand with a spotting scope to call my shots. My optic of choice was a Vortex Diamondback 2.5-8 power variable power scope with a Weaver one-piece SPR mount.

Upon my first group of 5 shots, my buddy asks me, "where are you aiming?" I told hem dead center. He says, "Huh. Do another group." So I do another group of 5. He Tells me that none of my 10 rounds have hit the target, or even the backer. I checked the scope and mount to confirm that it was tight, which it was. I try another two groups of 5 with the same result.

At this point, Im a little frustrated. I already know that I possess more than enough skill at the rifle, ad I am a Firearms Instructor for my department and I'm prior military, as well. I move the target up to 25 yards and begin again. I shoot 10 more groups of 5, and although I manage to get them onto the target, the smallest group I can pull in is 4". And it floats around. Sometimes they cluster to the right of where I'm aiming, sometimes its low left, sometimes its right, sometimes its directly above. I shoot better, more consisent groups at this distance with a handgun.

At this point, I am really disappointed with this upper. At first, I assume maybe the barrel nut is loose, or something else minor may be to blame. Perhaps better ammo? I decide to give the upper another chance and came back about a week later with higher quality ammo and some optimism. No change.

At this point, I am of the opinion that I simply got a bad upper and decided to send it back for a refund. I was going to return it, and attempt to purchase a different one from PSA once I discovered what I wanted. I call them several times, and eventually, I get a customer service rep to answer their phone. Upon talking with her, I tell her my issue, and she sends me the appropriate info to return it. I knew it was outside the warrantee time limit by about 2-3 weeks at this point.

Well, during the time I was trying to call PSA about my issue, I sent emails as well, trying to get someone/anyone to help me. Right after I talked to the woman over the phone, I received a response to one of my emails, telling me that, since I had applied paint (spray paint, which I completely removed) that a refund was not possible. Upon replying to the email, I asked if I could maybe get an exchange. They replied by telling me, if it isn't in exactly the same condition upon return that it was in when I received it (no paint), that I would be charged a 25 percent restocking fee.

I am very upset by now. I just paid $279 for a defective part and feel ripped off. I take the upper to my local gunsmith (who is a PSA dealer) and ask the. To please help me and contact PSA. They agree, and also told me they would check my rifle upper to try and diagnose the issue.

During the month that they had my rifle, the gunsmith took it out and shot it, confirming the horrible accuracy. He brought it back to the shop, and upon tearing it down, discovered that the inside of the bore had splits in the rifling, the barrel nut was loose to the point of being out of spec for torqing, and the upper receiver itself had corrosion where the barrel and upper meet.

He continued to call PSA on my behalf, and after speaking to multiple people at PSA, each one telling him that we're out of luck, he makes a phone call to the person highest in their food chain who would actually take his call. He told them about my issue, and their response was, "just buy another one". When he called and told me this, I was thoroughly disgusted. I felt cheated and ripped-off.

This is a cautionary tale about an unscrupulous group of people, mascarading as legitimate business people. Concerning the "company" referring to themselves as Palmetto State Armory, the phrase "Caveate Emptor", or Let The Buyer Beware absolutely applies.

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Matthew 5:9

I had an issue with them after receiving a 10.5" 5.56 pistol barrel that I sent a spikes tactical upper to be installed that wouldn't cycle properly when I received it. Like your case, due to time I wasn't able to fire it for a few months. Once I hit the range,The BCG would get stuck after firing and would not cycle the following round. Sent it back and stated that the gas tube was completely jacked, I stated that they were the ones who installed it. I'm not sure if the techs working there are up to PAR with the other companies out there.
They fixed the issue at no charge- just had to pay shipping one way.
Flawless now


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...if a manufacturer was told all this by one of their dealers and they still blow a customer off their $279 will be turned into $279,000 of bad publicity.

Bob

As ****** as your situation is, that 25% seems a little steep for a defective barrel regardless if it has paint. The metal needs to be scrapped as it is defective. PSA needs to honor their product even though the customer had changed the surface of the product that does not coincide with the function of product.

Not cool IMO and definitely will think twice on ordering from them..


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Couple things.

First, PSA builds aren't the greatest. Not even OK. Law of large numbers.....some will work.

Second. Never ever ever ever do anything to a product you haven't tested yet. EVER! If you havent ring it out thoroughly don't customize what you can't undo.

Third. Don't tell them you customized it!

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That sounds like a pretty sucky experience. I bought some parts from them a few times and my only complaint was they ship real slow. The other problem is they are kind of at the bottom of the barrel, maybe one step above Delton. If you want a decent upper, I would recommend Daniel Defense, there are other, probably dozens but I went with DD on a build and have been super happy.

Arik, the paint was simply Krylon, and came right off. Second, they would have discovered that I painted it upon its return. Definitely not irreversible.

I realized that they probably were third or fourth tier, at best, but if you pay the money you expect the item to atleast pretend to not be garbage. And also hope that customer service is also not garbage.

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Matthew 5:9

Kurac, my wife saw my dismay and bought me a Stag Arms model 3 upper receiver to replace it and I couldn't be happier. Should have went with a fully trusted, legitimate business in the first place.

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Matthew 5:9

Did you bore sight the scope at all? Did you try it with an old fashioned aperture sight? I highly doubt at 50 yds even the most inaccurate of rifles could fail to put 10 rounds on a 2' target. I suspect something other than a defective upper is at play here. This floating group you describe is a classic symptom of a bad optic or loose mounting not the upper.

Thats why their stuff is so CHEAP! I got lucky with one of their uppers, works/shoots great. Keep at them and make them make it right! Good luck

thanks for the tip-off. I purchase some of my ammo there because they are hands-down the cheapest place for what I want. I haven't been disappointed, although I'm told their packaging sucks sometimes.

Patrickd, I tried my scope, iron flip sights, and a cheap red dot. Same result each time. I submit to you that the tale is accurate and truthful.

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Matthew 5:9

From how they handled your situation just leads me to believe they know their product is **** and too bad we're keeping ur money Type of thing.


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They are notoriously hard to get a hold of. And their shipping usually sucks too. I use them only for certain deals on ammo, mags and optics

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Thanks for the heads up. Painting would hardly cause internal bore problems and for that reason alone they should have replaced the piece of junk.
Word of mouth is two headed , it can make you or break you. Seems this company doesn't care about its customers. Customers are to expensive to acquire to treat them poorly and get a bad rap from them.

Bravo company. Pay once.

What compelled you to buy an upper chambered for the .223 Wylde, instead of the NATO standard 5.56mm?

I was building an SPR style rifle. I had heard really good things about 223 wylde and wanted to try it out.

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Matthew 5:9

Stuff happens to the best manufacturers, more often to those further down the trough.


A bottom-budget part outside of warranty coverage, modified by purchaser is not something ANY company would be eager to have land back on their doorstep.


Lamenting that they wouldn't go above and beyond published coverage is silly. The fact that the upper wasn't tested during the warranty period is 100% on you, as is the damage caused by the paint.


I agree the upper SHOULD have worked. You also should have ascertained this prior to expiration of coverage.

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- Post No Bills -

I'm assuming you're using the 223 Wylde cartridge, and not a regular .223, or 5.56mm? All three can be fired in that upper, but for maximum accuracy, the barrel should be throughly cleaned, and you need to use the 223 Wylde.

Was the upper a PSA brand, the the PTAC brand that PSA sells? The PTAC are pretty low quality. Also $279 is very expensive for an upper. I would not expect too much from it.

There are several consumer protection services that come attached to credit cards these days.

Assuming you paid with a credit card, perhaps you have another avenue of redress for this issue, such as an automatic extension of the warranty as part of your cardholders agreement.

I was unaware of anyone making 223 wylde specific ammo. As I understand it, 223 wylde is designed for shooting 556 rounds more accurately? Can someone shed a little light on this?

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Matthew 5:9

If you used a credit card, contact your financial institution for details on doing a charge back. Get to it quick, there is a time limit from date of receipt--tho some credit unions work with you on that.

PatriotX, the paint, in no way, altered or damaged the upper. Palmetto has a lifetime warrantee against defects in materials or worksmanship. They just chose not to honor it until after I put it on the net.

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Matthew 5:9

There is no such thing as .223 Wylde ammo unless you are rolling reloads that came out of a Wylde chambered rifle. .223 and 5.56 Nato cartridge dimensions are the same but the chambers are different and they are loaded to a different maximum pressure standard with 5.56 Nato running at higher pressure. It is safe to fire .223 ammo in 5.56 rifle, it is not advised to shoot 5.56 ammo in a .223 rifle. The .223 Wylde chambering is supposed to be a cross between the two allowing you to shoot either in a rifle chambered for .223 Wylde. I might also add that it is popular among match shooter since you can load the 80gr projectiles out past magazine length for the single load 600 yard segment of a highpower or service rifle match.

I've had generally good luck all around with PSA. Just got a an upper with stainless midlength from them, and also their full auto tested BCG. All seems to function fine. Very happy with the price, build and shipping. I guess with anyone there will be the occasional bad build or faulty component.


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Here is some info:

.223 Wylde chamber

.223 Wylde chamber - Wikipedia

Brownells Tech Tip: AR-15 5.56/.223/.223 Wylde

In this Tech Tip Brownells gun tech Steve Ostrem explains the difference between 5.56 NATO, .223 Remington, and .223 Wylde caliber ammunition.


Brownells Tech Tip: AR-15 5.56/.223/.223 Wylde | World's Largest Supplier of Firearm Accessories, Gun Parts and Gunsmithing Tools - BROWNELLS

I've only ever bought ammo from them, twice, as I recall. They do have some good prices on ammo. Your situation can definitely be seen from two sides, but I'd think good PR for them would have been to make it right. The negative publicity would far outweigh the cost of replacing your upper, though I can see where technically they would not be obligated to do so.

My brother and I both purchased 9mm AR kits from PSA. Mine functions fine but it can be particular depending what mag you use. My brothers had an issue with extraction but it was well beyond the 30 day warranty when he found out. He contacted PSA and they declined to help due to the warranty expiring.

If you buy anything from PSA, make sure you can test fire it before the 30 limit in the event you have an issue. Regardless of who you bought something from, make sure it works BEFORE you spray paint it.

Sorry to hear about your problems with the upper. However, I can't blame PSA. Their warranty clearly states modifications void the warranty. You stated "the paint, in no way, altered or damaged the upper." Paint altered the upper. It changed the color and perhaps altered the makeup of the outer surfaces.

In the first post it is mentioned "I knew it was outside the warrantee time limit by about 2-3 weeks at this point." Yet it's a lifetime warranty.

It seems the OP really didn't understand the PSA warranty.

I have bought several items from PSA with no issues at all. Pleased with the prices. They are terribly busy every time I have been in there which I assume affects their customer service somewhat. I want to say hire more people, then think, hmmm their goes the best price in town.

Charlie

While I've never heard anything too great about PSA, this story opened my eyes to how bad they could be. It this competition based market place, a manufacturer should be willing to bend over backwards for a customer, even more so when a gunsmith gets involved. As said this $279 saving on there part has cost them much more. PSA is off my list.

Arisinwind, I removed the paint completely before any return effort was even attempted. I simply told them what I did, even though the paint was already gone. The surface of the gun wasn't altered. Besides, the barrel (with cracked rifling) was stainless steel. Krylon will not do anything to it on a metalurgical level.

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Matthew 5:9

I guess I've been lucky. I slapped these 3 together in the last year, 2 under $450 each. Function is 100%, none are precision target rifles. Joe

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Behavior Creates Destiny

Thanks for the review on the PSA
I believe i will avoid them like the plague.
Customer service like that is unacceptable.


Chuck

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They hold no Quarter

The Brownell's tech tip referenced did not contain any mention of .223 Wylde AMMUNITION. Only chambers.
.223 Wylde is not a caliber. It's a chamber for .223/5.56 caliber ammunition.

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Fight socialism. Never stop.

PSA used to have a good name and was known for their line of ARs and parts as well as pistol hop-up parts, (1911 & Glock). they have always had delivery problems as , I think, they were (are) reluctant to spend on personnel and instead spent on development of new products. Starting to bite 'em in the arse as I have been seeing a lot of negative publicity as of late.

I hope we have this straightened out.

Want an accurate rifle? Then use a .223 Wylde barrel. I've built two AR-15's on the higher performance end with .223 Wylde barrels. As mentioned, I shoot both .223 & 5.56 in them. I reload cases to .223 specs. I didn't go crazy on the barrel pricing, but they fall in the $300+ class.

P.S. I've never purchased anything from Palmetto State . Wouldn't know.

Wow! Sorry about your misfortune. I've never dealt with PSA. And now, I don't see that trend changing.

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The Penetration Channel

Correct. The purpose of the chambering is to permit it to fire .223 or 5.56 ammo accurately. There is no such thing as a .223 Wylde caliber round.


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Seems you don't understand it, either--OP said it was 30 days, and PSA said it was 30 days...

AFA something (which has nothing to do with the material defect) 'voiding' a warranty--read up on the Moss-Magnuson Act.

I had one -prolonged- experience with PSA. Ordered a case of CCI Standard Velocity 22 LR. Good price and in stock during the Great 22LR Drought. UPS lost it. Hard to imagine how UPS could "lose" a 30 lb large box, but that's a different story. Filed a claim with UPS and they said I had to deal with the shipper.

That's where the fun started.

PSA's customer service was essentially non-existent. To their credit, when I did get somebody on the line they were pleasant and seemed eager to help. That's where it stopped. They never followed through with their promises. Great promises, but no action. Having spent a lot of time on hold with them and getting nowhere I demanded a refund and threatened to have my credit card company take care of it. Amazingly, the customer service rep credited my card during that call.

I thought I was done. Got my money back, didn't I?

Well yes, the credit occurred. However about 3 weeks later, UPS "found" the 30 lb shipment. They attempted to deliver it to my house w/ signature required. Didn't advise me they were doing that. I wasn't home and they made just one attempt before shipping it back to PSA. Just as well, because had I received it my personal ethics would have caused me to contact PSA and pay for the ammo. I can't imagine sorting that out! And who knows what the shipment looked like having been lost in the UPS universe?

All in all, it turned out fine. Just a hassle and a lesson about PSA.

I don't think Palmetto should be crucified over this one incident. They've been around for a long time, and do a ton of business, because their prices are reasonable, and quite often, the cheapest option out there. That's what attracts people to them. We're all trying to save money. But you need to keep in mind, the cheapest is not always the best option. Especially when you're looking for top performance.

I'll continue to do business with them, as I have done for years. All my experiences with them have been excellent.

So what part of this did PSA not do their part? They refunded your money. The rest of your problems sound like it was due to UPS, not PSA.

No reason to doubt that the OP received a defective upper from Palmetto.

No reason to doubt the OP when he explains that he failed in his obligation to return the defective upper within 30 days as defined in Terms and Conditions.

Terms and Conditions

If the purchased item(s) is defective or damaged upon receipt, or if the customer is not satisfied with a purchased item(s) and wishes to return it for a refund or replacement, the customer may return the item(s) to Palmetto State Armory WITHIN 30 DAYS of the date of receipt of delivery of the purchased item.

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Seems like to me End of Story.

The problem is, once you fire it, you are no longer eligible for a refund. Seems to me that firing it is often how you discover you have an issue.

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Matthew 5:9

As I noted in my post, they didn't honor their promises and their responsiveness was terrible.

Agreed, the rest of it was UPS and just background info.