BigBill
Absent Comrade
I can't justify spending that much on one gun. I could buy it but I'm frugal. My older ruger security sixes are awesome. Even my Redhawk in 357mag. I wish I never traded in my Python.
Beginning To Understand Why A Korth Mongoose Revolver Is Worth $3,499
- Thread starter dwever
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Lee's Landing Billy
Member
Rick, why stop short? Go all the way with your decision.
Timex-Kia
Timex-Kia
silversnake
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It's certainly more than I plan to spend on a revolver anytime soon. But I'd be willing to pay more than S&Ws current prices for a cylinder that's so easy to swap out (and a return to forged steel components).
BigBill
Absent Comrade
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If a Python is worth that much....
If a Python made and hand fit like in the old days, today, would be worth $5000, what would an S&W built to 1960s quality be worth????
Did I hear that right? The Korth has extreme fitting and features to boot but 'only' cost's $3500.
In my mind a such a Python would be worth about $3000 and the S&W somewhat less, only because Colts have always been a little more expensive.
If a Python made and hand fit like in the old days, today, would be worth $5000, what would an S&W built to 1960s quality be worth????
Did I hear that right? The Korth has extreme fitting and features to boot but 'only' cost's $3500.
In my mind a such a Python would be worth about $3000 and the S&W somewhat less, only because Colts have always been a little more expensive.
The Korth in the video was compared to an L frame as similar size. Here are a couple of L frame guns that would be a good comparison:
an early 681 (this one for the NYSP):
a CS-1 (really just a fancy 686):
an early Colt 357 (they dolled these up to make the Python). I prefer the .357's ergonomics over the Python, but you can substitute a Python if that scratches your itch:
I would find it very difficult to trade in all 3 of these revolvers plus add another $1,000 (+/- $500) to own one of these new Korths.
an early 681 (this one for the NYSP):
a CS-1 (really just a fancy 686):
an early Colt 357 (they dolled these up to make the Python). I prefer the .357's ergonomics over the Python, but you can substitute a Python if that scratches your itch:
I would find it very difficult to trade in all 3 of these revolvers plus add another $1,000 (+/- $500) to own one of these new Korths.
oneounceload
Member
And yet, there are tons of folks who pay that much and more for 1911s from the likes of Baer, Wilson, etc.........
357-RevolverGuy
Member
You know I sometimes wonder why Korth doesn’t document their hand-fitting process on making their revolvers. I mean if there was a video or some sort of documentary out there it would really help us understand what goes into the process and why they are priced the way they are. It’s a lost art and eventually their gunsmiths will retire or pass away.
The lockwork of the Korth revolvers evolved over about seven years to the longer encapsuled mainspring and roller bearing for D/A stacking. The guns made in between 1962 and 1969 are of great quality with an excellent finish but lack the bearing. All polishing is done by hand and no wheel is used, leading to sharper edges than a wheel can give, something noticeable when I compare my Korths to my Python.
If you get a Korth from the sleepy little town of Ratzeburg, get one made in between 1969 and 1982. After 1982, the sale of the company and change in production staff did to Korth what the Union of Autoworkers did to the Python.
I had shot two Korth revolvers as a young man that I had borrowed from affluent friends in my shooting club and was sorely impressed with their overall quality! It took me a couple of decades to buy my first used Korth and my fascination with them grew, which was also fueled by good luck and me finding the guns for very favourable prices and importing them myself.
Attached below is a look inside and a comparison to the Python. I also had compiled a short overview to the evolution of the Korth here: The Evolution of the Korth Sport Revolver
Attachments
I was thinking your question over. Technically, there is little difference. I have a 1952 vintage S&W K-22 since about three decades and none of my .22 Korths is more accurate than the K-22. However, the ejection of the Korth rimfire revolver is much better, like in night-and-day better. The little roller bearing for the double action came in five different sizes ( comes in three now ) and the stacking can be changed by changing to a different diameter roller.
My S&W 14-2 has been the gun that I shot a lot in competition and I let a few friends and one of my sons shoot the 14-2 in comparison to a four inch Korth Combat and all did a little better with the S&W, me included. When I do the same comparison of the S&W 14-2 to a 1971 vintage six inch Korth Sport .357 Mag, the Korth gets more favorable reviews. My son shot the target below with my reloads at 25 meters, the UIT distance.
The difference is in fit and finish, not in performance or mechanical accuracy. A little bit of high end always was very expensive, compare a registered Magnum to a S&W 27-2.
Attachments
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bushmaster1313
Member
Do they charge extra for a Camo finish?
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I am reading this thread and smiling to myself. I suspect many here who are questioning the Korth's price tag and they have a safe full of what they consider to be collectible S&W's that total far more than the price of one Korth. As one who appreciates "in house products" I would love to handle one. I could justify the price if I really wanted something special.
In another thread here there are people lining up to by surplus military 1911's from the CMP at $1000 and up. I wouldn't give you $10 for the gun they issued me back in the 60's.
So it comes down to the fact everyone has their own sense of value and pride of ownership.
Me, I opt for the precision of a "in house watch" and maybe someday a Korth revolver.
In another thread here there are people lining up to by surplus military 1911's from the CMP at $1000 and up. I wouldn't give you $10 for the gun they issued me back in the 60's.
So it comes down to the fact everyone has their own sense of value and pride of ownership.
Me, I opt for the precision of a "in house watch" and maybe someday a Korth revolver.
Here's a statement from Michael Janich in Personal Defense World, December 2016 that perhaps takes exception to that characterization:
"The first time I pulled the trigger of one of the Nighthawk-Korth revolvers, a smile of wonderment crossed my face. If you are a revolver kind of person at all, you know what to expect when you pull a revolver’s trigger—even the trigger of a “worked” revolver. But I was not ready for what I felt. It was not like any trigger action I’d felt before on any type of firearm. Pardon the amateurish analogy, but it can best be described as pushing your finger through butter-laced molasses; there was no stacking, no grittiness, no nothing you would expect. You apply pressure, the trigger effortlessly moves, and the gun goes bang.
That same look of wonderment was what I witnessed as the competitors worked through the Nighthawk stage at the Gunsite 40th Anniversary Alumni Shoot. A few even commented that a trigger like the one they had just pulled is not even possible. But of course it was—they pulled it, the gun when bang, the steel rang, and they smiled."
"have to agree with the trigger analogy.
I got to fondle one a fee weeks ago and I can say that the trigger was indescribable.
I have felt some really nice triggers, but nothing like this."
Bob
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Stainless44
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How about me.
No Rolex
No Seiko
No Timex
Only time I need a watch is when I go out on a job, then I go get a cheap electronic, set it, take the band off, hot glue it inside on the front of the hard hat. When the job is over I toss the hard had and the time piece.
No way I would spend $3500 on a sub caliber gun unless it was a registered magnum. I would get 3 more Smith big bores and do a little smoothing long before getting a Korth
I'd like to thank Andyd for his always informative posts based on actual first hand experience and ownership.
Another great guy to follow is Michael Zeleny. He has lots of well researched articles on Korths, Manurhin MR73s, Sig Neuhausen P210s, etc. Again, he bases his opinions on actual use, ownership, and research.
Here's an excellent article:
larvatus prodeo
I love this quote:
"In his 1936 essay, “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction”, Walter Benjamin discusses the authenticity of a thing, construed as the essence of all that is transmissible from its beginning, ranging from its substantive duration to its testimony to the history that it has experienced. The nature of handgun production instituted and overseen by Willi Korth embodies and exemplifies the summit of authenticity built into a hand-operated mechanism. Judged by these standards, Korth Ratzeburg is as close as handguns gets to the Patek Philippe Ref. 2552, and Mulhouse Manurhin MR73 and Korth Lollar, to the Rolex 1016. The S&W Triple Lock is comparable to the Hamilton 940; the modern S&W, to a generic Timex."
Another great guy to follow is Michael Zeleny. He has lots of well researched articles on Korths, Manurhin MR73s, Sig Neuhausen P210s, etc. Again, he bases his opinions on actual use, ownership, and research.
Here's an excellent article:
larvatus prodeo
I love this quote:
"In his 1936 essay, “The Work of Art in the Age of Mechanical Reproduction”, Walter Benjamin discusses the authenticity of a thing, construed as the essence of all that is transmissible from its beginning, ranging from its substantive duration to its testimony to the history that it has experienced. The nature of handgun production instituted and overseen by Willi Korth embodies and exemplifies the summit of authenticity built into a hand-operated mechanism. Judged by these standards, Korth Ratzeburg is as close as handguns gets to the Patek Philippe Ref. 2552, and Mulhouse Manurhin MR73 and Korth Lollar, to the Rolex 1016. The S&W Triple Lock is comparable to the Hamilton 940; the modern S&W, to a generic Timex."
Michael Zeleny and I were into Korth revolvers and Swiss SIGs long before the hype started. He definitely has his guns researched very well and his stories narrated very well, as to be exprected from a man with his educational background.
He also has the technical understanding ( and intelligence ) to make use of the features of all these rare guns, when there is little info available and hours are spent to just look at the parts and understand their interaction. Something that some prominent youtube posters obviously didn't.
I got most of my Korths before the hype and many at lower prices than I just paid for my S&W M27-2.
He also has the technical understanding ( and intelligence ) to make use of the features of all these rare guns, when there is little info available and hours are spent to just look at the parts and understand their interaction. Something that some prominent youtube posters obviously didn't.
I got most of my Korths before the hype and many at lower prices than I just paid for my S&W M27-2.
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lowriderfxr
Member
There are plenty of watch and automobile comparisons in this thread already.
Let me try it this way. My son is an engineer. He is a great husband and probably an even better father, if possible. He takes great care of his family. His thing is sneakers. They have websites , shows, the whole deal just like guns. He bought a pair of sneakers for like 1200.00 called yeezies or something like that. I asked him why they were better than my 39.99 Walmart sneakers. He said for the same reason you wanted that safe full of guns. Are they better than the 3906 you got me on my 21st birthday? He has a point . People like what they like and buy what they want. I have 686s, 27s ,52s and 952s. I don't need a gun that shoots better than they do because that are all exceptional.
I will own a mongoose. Why? Because I want one and I'll still be able to provide for my family after I pay for it. If you don't want one God bless you and God bless you if you do want one.
Let me try it this way. My son is an engineer. He is a great husband and probably an even better father, if possible. He takes great care of his family. His thing is sneakers. They have websites , shows, the whole deal just like guns. He bought a pair of sneakers for like 1200.00 called yeezies or something like that. I asked him why they were better than my 39.99 Walmart sneakers. He said for the same reason you wanted that safe full of guns. Are they better than the 3906 you got me on my 21st birthday? He has a point . People like what they like and buy what they want. I have 686s, 27s ,52s and 952s. I don't need a gun that shoots better than they do because that are all exceptional.
I will own a mongoose. Why? Because I want one and I'll still be able to provide for my family after I pay for it. If you don't want one God bless you and God bless you if you do want one.
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Both the Korth and the Manurhin MR73 are interesting guns. The MR73's are 3000.00 new in various barrel lengths. If I had the money to buy either, it would be a tough decision. I have a 4" target MR73 that I had re-blued so I wouldn't spend the money on a new one. The 5" MR73 is sweet.
Had an early Korth .22 made I believe in 1967. It didn't have the roller bearing trigger but still very smooth. When I sold it to buy the newer model I spotted, it was gone. Watching the video, the Mongoose has a lot of nice features. I don't have a problem with the price they sell for, Larry
Had an early Korth .22 made I believe in 1967. It didn't have the roller bearing trigger but still very smooth. When I sold it to buy the newer model I spotted, it was gone. Watching the video, the Mongoose has a lot of nice features. I don't have a problem with the price they sell for, Larry
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