Luger P-08 Detectives.......Wanna Guess?

P-08 experts, when was my commercial Luger produced. 1920's or 1970's....and how do I tell if the frame is aluminum? Here's what I have:
DWM Luger.
Has lug for stock
No date on toggle
Gesichert for "safe", nothing for "fire".
Loaded indicator on extractor is "Geladen"
Has nitro proofs
Serial number "8753" with a script "N" or "R" under that.
Serial number also on front of frame.
Don't know if the walnut grips are original to this gun. Also not sure about the mag.

I am not a P08 expert, but...

This is not a 1970s replica. It may be a WW I era example with the year code (on the top of the receiver just behind the barrel) removed, or a commercial example.

If the mag has the serial number of the gun, it is original (and fairly unusual to find). The stocks are the original style, others may tell you a way to determine originality.

Have you tried a magnet on the frame? Bet it will stick .

P-08

You have a very nice 30 Lugar that was at one time a service pistol of the German Army in WWI in 9mm. The treaty of Versallae (can not spell in French) that ended WWI stated that Germany was responsible for all war debt caused by the Great War. It also stated that the German army could not issue 9mm pistols. What to do? Take all the Lugars and convert them to 7.65 mm, grind off all military markings, reproof with crown over N mark, rebarrel to 30 Lugar and mark Germany and sell out as export. To pay war debt. You have a popular DWM lugar, German(D) Weapons (W) Manufacture (M) with the right wood bottom mag. The trigger, safety lever, and locking latch are the right color. If it is 9mm then it was probably imported before WWI. Hope this helps a bit.

delta-419 said:

You have a very nice 30 Lugar that was at one time a service pistol of the German Army in WWI in 9mm. The treaty of Versallae (can not spell in French) that ended WWI stated that Germany was responsible for all war debt caused by the Great War. It also stated that the German army could not issue 9mm pistols. What to do? Take all the Lugars and convert them to 7.65 mm, grind off all military markings, reproof with crown over N mark, rebarrel to 30 Lugar and mark Germany and sell out as export. To pay war debt. You have a popular DWM lugar, German(D) Weapons (W) Manufacture (M) with the right wood bottom mag. The trigger, safety lever, and locking latch are the right color. If it is 9mm then it was probably imported before WWI. Hope this helps a bit.

Click to expand...

It's Versailles and Luger. I guess European languages are not your strong point.

Very informative post. I knew there were some funny rules regarding WWI rifles, but I didn't realize there were others applied to handguns.

Looks like a refinish to me. Not from 1920s Germany. Some one
had a reblue done on it much later, probably here in US. Still a
nice pistol at any rate.

I'm guessing it's post WWI, the serial number sort of fits around 1921, 22. Doesn't say Germany or have any import marks that I can see. It IS 7.65 and the bbl. is 3 7/8th though.

1920 Commercial Rework,,more generally known lately as a 1920 Commercial Alphabet Luger.

One to five digit ser# w/a single lower case script letter suffix.

The blued extractor is correct along with 'strawed' trigger, safety, locking bar, ejector, mag release. The serial number is stamped & matching on the bottom of the side plate (last 2) which is correct for the Commercial numbering style. Can;t see the rest of the numbers..
The letter suffix to the ser# was added to the Commercial numbering in these postWW1 mfg'rs. Pre-WW1 Commercial did not use a letter suffix.
The grips may be orig also, they show the light right thumb wear in the checkering on the left grip as would be expected with a gun in this condition.
Calibers were often 30Luger but they were also made up in 9mmLuger.
Most of these reworks had the stock lug left intact from the Military guns they were made from.
Many destined for export to the USA have a tiny GERMANY stamped in the frame somewhere but it's not a given.

I'm not so sure it's a reblue,,looks pretty good to me but pics can be misleading. Could be a restoration perhaps(?)
Here's a nice restoration that could be it's twin brother, it sold for $1800+:
Excellent 1920 DWM Commercial Luger Chambered in Desirable 9mm-Pistol Firearms Auction Lot-499

I'm guessing you are either looking to buy, or, wanting to sell.

Were it mine, I'd likely keep it.

"German(D) Weapons (W) Manufacture (M)"

DWM = Deutsche Waffen- und Munitionsfabriken (German weapons and munitions factory)

Nice looking pistol, probably been reblued. Should make a great shooter if price is right. 30 luger caliber is sweet to shoot altho ammo is high priced at about $24 per 50 rounds.

RSanch111 said:

P-08 experts, when was my commercial Luger produced. 1920's or 1970's....and how do I tell if the frame is aluminum? Here's what I have:
DWM Luger.
Has lug for stock
No date on toggle
Gesichert for "safe", nothing for "fire".
Loaded indicator on extractor is "Geladen"
Has nitro proofs
Serial number "8753" with a script "N" or "R" under that.
Serial number also on front of frame.
Don't know if the walnut grips are original to this gun. Also not sure about the mag.

Click to expand...

Your Luger, serial number 8753n, is what is known to collectors as a alphabet commercial. They were manufactured between 1921 to 1929 and started at serial number 2000i. This one doesn't appear to have been marked Germany which is not unusual, they can be found either way. Is the interior of the frame in the white? Does the finish around the barrel serial number appear to be disrupted? Those would be called halos and if present it is an indication of original finish. Is the mag base numbered or blank?

If you really want to get "expert" help........join and jump on Jan Still" Axis Powers site (luger.gunboards) and those guys on there are exactly like all the experts on this site. Just like we have Members that can willingly help you with most all things S & W, The Members on the luger site are just as friendly and helpful.

I sold my 1941 byf "Black Widow" WWII P-08 several years back, but through the luger site I really learned a lot and the members were very helpful in validating several points that not only increased my knowledge tremendously, it also put that guns value far and above what I originally had in it.

Black Widow is a 1960's collector term referring to the black plastic grips (mine were validated as Type 6) and black plastic base magazine. Regarding the post above about the "halo" surrounding any stampings and/or roll marks it is very true that if you see the "halo" you are indeed looking at original finish (see photo below of my top marks).

Anyway you cut it, the Luger P-08 is almost a "natural pointer" in most hands and the weapon functions flawlessly for me. The only caution about shooting one (assuming it is all genuine in the first place) is to think very hard about replacing the springs as these hand fitted, original parts (some numbered to the gun) are simply not obtainable from any sources. Repops and fakes abound.

Yours has a great appearance and if you decide to shoot that guy, you will probably fall in love with it and find its way into your range bag for every outing.

If you shoot it you may want to buy a Mec-gar magazine for it. The wood bottom of your magazine may break if too many are loaded. The Mec-gar mags work good, did that to shoot my Father’s war souvenir and having fun with it. Larry

Plus 1 on the MecGar magazines.

Original Luger magazines in working condition that are period correct for that particular Luger will go for upwards of $200. Don't uses yours, as if you break them their value plummets.

If you want, you can add new production wooden base plates to your MecGar magazines and get a modern magazine with a period correct wooden base plate look.

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I'm also in agreement that a Luger is great fun to shoot. It's old tech in terms of the single stack magazine, but they have excellent balance, point well, and run like a well oiled Singer sewing machine, which makes them a joy to shoot.

Just stay with 115 grain and 124 grain loads and totally avoid +P ammunition. New springs are pretty much a must, as you have no idea how many rounds the old springs saw, and springs will often get brittle with age. New springs are cheap and will go a along way toward preventing excessive wear and breaking on your pistol.

One method used by some shooters to ensure the load is well matched to the pistol and springs is to put a piece of masking tape on the shoulders of the frame. Provided the pistols cycles reliably, and the toggles have not cut the tape on the shoulders, the load you are using is just fine.

The design doesn't take well to dry firing,,I don't recomend dry firing any firearm anyway.

You can let the firing pin down and release the tension on the FP if you want to on an EMPTY chamber by simply easing the toggle forward till it is nearly closed.
About 1/8" before it's completely closed you'll feel a slight resistance,,that is the sear bar engaging the firing pin in preparation to cocking it.
At that point still holding the toggle steady,,,pull the trigger and hold it back. Then ease the toggle to the full down position.
The pistol is now toggle/breech closed,,firing pin down,,chamber empty.

That hesitation holding the toggle in place while you hold the trigger to the rear allowed the firing pin to ride by the sear and miss engaging it to cock the firing pin.

Good info on the MecGar magazines. I use them in several of my Lugers of different vintage and they always seem to function well.
The mag spring in them is powerful and for me at least it is difficult to load more than 5 rds in them,,might just be Mr Arthuritis showing.
The 'skate key' works well when loading the mag.

I have yet to find a Luger incl an Artillery that wouldn't function nicely with nothing but Rem/UMC 115gr FMJ. That is if the pistol is in good mechanical shape, properly fitted, exc magazine, ect. Even a couple of my mixed number put-togethers work fine with the stuff.
Some others use the W/W 'White Box' 9mm FMJ often sold at Wallyworld and the like for their standard.
It doesn't take a special Luger Load of some high pressure, special bullet design and mystic power to make these work.

Changing springs is OK if they need it. I can thruthfully say I've only ever changed the coil mainspring on a Luger twice as I doubted their originality and strength. That's not much in over 40yrs of doing this stuff.
They sell or at least used to sell Xtra Power mainsprings for the Luger. Why I could never figure out. It's not a pistol to magnumize.
The Xtra spring did come in handy one time though in the building of a cut-down Luger we did in a shop I worked in. The shortened grip made less room for the mainspring length.
The Xtra power spring, shortened,, was the ticket to get the normal spring action needed yet fit into the smaller space,,worked well.

The other is the firing pin spring,,it's strength can be judged quite easy by backing out the FP spring retainer(use your 'Skate Key!) and seeing the length of the spring as it sits in the breech and judging the strength needed to reinstall.
Extractor kinda the same thing,,just lift it up,,can tell you right away if it's weak or not (it's a fairly strong little spring too.. Poor extraction will be another clue.