Thoughts on possible rifles for the Army

Ghost Magnum

Ghost Magnum

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It's proving difficult to knock the 50 year old rifle off it's pedestal.
The L5 Ribbon Rifle could be the next rifle.
But there others that already been proven in battle.

There is the H&K M27 that is already in use by the USMC.

The IWI Tavor. I believe that would make a great weapon for the Army. I'm not just saying that because I'm a fan of the Tavor.
The Tavor has already being used by some police and sheriff departments here in the US. I heard rumors that some groups in the military has unofficial adopted the Tavor. But I would take that with a grain of salt.
I wouldn't hold my breath on the army using it. I think the army would have used bullpup rifles years ago if they was truly interested in them.

FN SCAR is already in use by the Army Rangers and other branches of USSOCOM.
I would be proud to own one.

H&K G36. I think the army was experimenting with this rifle some years ago. I remember seeing a video of a soldier dip this gun in water and sand a it fired without a single problem.

There is also the XM8. I remember they was testing that rifle. I don't really know what happened to it

The deal is just about every gun I named on this list cost about twice as much then the M16/M4.
 
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The cost of any weapon considered will certainly be a factor in the selection process and may well be the deciding factor. Just quickly thinking about what would be my ideal rifle -it needs to be light with a reasonable basic load of ammunition(weight is a grunts worst enemy) ,it must be almost maintenance free in any enviroment,use a flat shooting cartridge and have a effective range of 600 yards with good battlefield accuracy. Semi and full automatic at a controllable rate of fire that can be maintained with out destroying itself. Having been a milsurp guy I think the present AR platform meets most of these needs but .224 Valkyrie ammo might be an improvement with very little changes required. Going to think on this some more.
 
I always felt the .556 was too small and thought a modern designed rifle in size between the M-14 and a Mini-14 chambered for .243 Win or .250 Savage would be ideal.
 
vonn said:
The cost of any weapon considered will certainly be a factor in the selection process and may well be the deciding factor. Just quickly thinking about what would be my ideal rifle -it needs to be light with a reasonable basic load of ammunition(weight is a grunts worst enemy) ,it must be almost maintenance free in any enviroment,use a flat shooting cartridge and have a effective range of 600 yards with good battlefield accuracy. Semi and full automatic at a controllable rate of fire that can be maintained with out destroying itself. Having been a milsurp guy I think the present AR platform meets most of these needs but .224 Valkyrie ammo might be an improvement with very little changes required. Going to think on this some more.
Click to expand...

I think .224 Valkyrie needs barrel length, which makes it a non-starter for most purposes.

The LSAT performed well in tests, proving that case telescoped ammo can work. I would like to see similar technology in 6.5 or 6.8 caliber.
 
I think the Swedish 6.5mm caliber is yet to be fully developed. Then we have the flattest shooter of them all the 7 mm Mauser round.
 
I just hope the Defense Department doesn't waste 10 years and untold amounts of money and come up with nothing like they did last time.

The AR platform is highly refined and reliable but it seems that the 5.56 is not up to solving some battlefield problems. My father was career 82nd Airborne. He had fought with M2 carbines, M1s, M14 and finally the M16. I got to talk to him and some of his buddies who served with him in Vietnam. To a man, they were glad to be rid of the M14 and loved the M16.
 
vonn said:
The cost of any weapon considered will certainly be a factor in the selection process and may well be the deciding factor. Just quickly thinking about what would be my ideal rifle -it needs to be light with a reasonable basic load of ammunition(weight is a grunts worst enemy) ,it must be almost maintenance free in any enviroment,use a flat shooting cartridge and have a effective range of 600 yards with good battlefield accuracy. Semi and full automatic at a controllable rate of fire that can be maintained with out destroying itself. Having been a milsurp guy I think the present AR platform meets most of these needs but .224 Valkyrie ammo might be an improvement with very little changes required. Going to think on this some more.
Click to expand...

My vote goes for whatever the latest and best version of the Ak-47 is.

Good caliber, superior penetration of obstacles and human tissue, accurate enough for the skill level of the average troop today under combat conditions, unlimited potential for using captured stocks of ammo, and last but not least- all the R & D work is already done.
 
I think an AR10 that was put on a diet and chambered in something with .243 ballistics would be an awesome fighting rifle. I personally wonder why you would equip an army with the 5.56 when it is considered marginal for hunting 125 pound herbivores by most hunters I know.

I will bring up my father's sergeant thinking about rifles. He told me that as paratrooper he wanted a short and light rifle. He had bent the barrels on a number of M14 when jumping. He was always aware that when he was dropped off a helicopter with his team, it might be a while before they got resupplied. The 5.56 really checked a box for him in this regard because he could carry a lot more rounds. I asked him and his buddies about the 5.56's lack of power. They looked at me like I was crazy as they were convinced it was plenty lethal. Of course they were engaging targets in a jungle.
 
IMO the M-14 was probably the high water mark in US Infantry rifle design when wars were fought at greater distances in larger battlefields.

No doubt the M16 was much better suited for Jungle warfare in Vietnam once they got the bugs ironed out.
Since its early M16 inception and M16A1 improvements the design has had enough time in service to address its shortcomings (BTW the old M14 was brought back out of mothballs with an added scope for use in Iraq and Afghanistan where the 5.56 lacked range, penetration and power ).

There is a big difference from the early M16's 55-grain 5.56 mm M193 cartridge mated to a 1 in 12 twist barrel to the current M16A4 with 62 gr. lead core NATO SS109/M855 with steel penetrator spitzer bullet mated to the faster 1 in 9 twist barrel.
(BTW Read an article a few months back there is a new improved cartridge coming out that outperforms the SS109)

While I still prefer the 20" barrel full fixed stock M16A2 the smaller M4 carbine seems to have eclipsed it and no surprise as the trend for many of our NATO allies has been toward shorter Bullpup designs which perhaps have an advantage in modern battle and urban warfare.
 
I agree about the 20" barrel. I have never been combat but a 14.5" barrel makes no sense to me especially with the 5.56 which needs all the velocity it can get.
 
I would like to see either the AR or Mini-14 platforms in .243. But remember that when talking 5.56/.223 as far as be lethal, animals are harder to bring down than people.
 
I think that 5.56 kills game but not quick enough to prevent hunters from being unable to find what they shot. The 224 Valkyrie in shorter 18 to 20 inch barrels won't be super long range but would be be a signicant increase in bullet weight which should increase effectiveness on the target. Lots of people seem to be working with short 224 barrels judging by videos out there.
 
white cloud said:
I agree about the 20" barrel. I have never been combat but a 14.5" barrel makes no sense to me especially with the 5.56 which needs all the velocity it can get.
Click to expand...

For 5.56mm it makes the most sense. But we're not going back to 20" rifles (remember when that was considered a 'carbine'?), so the goal is to find a new chambering that's most effective out of a 12-14" barrel and meets all the penetration and lethality requirements.

Right now, as I posted about, the 6.5CBJ does that. Another somewhat sci-fi possibility would be a large caliber round that was essentially a micro-grenade.
 
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