My ongoing misadventure with a MilSurp Romanian Tokarev TTC.

Folks here may recall a recent thread posted by yours truly titled; "This will most-likely be the last time I purchase a firearm online" involving my difficulties regarding the shipment of a MilSurp Romanian TTC I had ordered online which concluded with the situation being resolved because my FFL had someone go in early to make sure they could sign for it and me subsequently picking it up.

Unfortunately, the story doesn't end there... In fact, it has only gotten worse.

Here's a review I wrote up detailing my experiences since receiving it, a review that I might add, the retailer I ordered from has deleted twice...

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I ordered one of these Romanian Tokarev TT33s (which are actually known as TTCs, but whatever) which was described as "meticulously reconditioned and finished by the European factory at the time the safeties were installed" by the seller. Unfortunately, this description is blatantly false, or at least it is when it comes to the specific example that I received.

The Tokarev that I received came in a battered cardboard box and coated externally with an insufficient amount of lubricant/preservative, so there was a bit of surface rust on the frame where the import marks were stamped, but that's no big deal because it wiped right off and the condition of the package may be due to careless handling by USPS during shipment. However, as previously stated, the overall condition of the firearm is not as described, and that's the real issue here. The Tokarev which I received wasn't "meticulously reconditioned and finished". In fact, it doesn't appear to have received any sort of reconditioning/refinishing whatsoever. The finish has visible holster wear, visible scratches which could have easily been polished out, the slidestop pin retention clip was fitted too tightly so that it was wedged against the safety's backstop so I had to struggle to successfully break down the pistol, the clip came loose, and the safety lever fell out of the frame. The barrel lug has heavy machining marks on the surface which should have been smoothed out, and the barrel was actually dirty inside, fouled with carbon buildup, so this firearm wasn't even cleaned, much less "meticulously reconditioned and finished" as the description states.

In addition, the magazine that it shipped with is pitted with rust, with the baseplate so badly rusted that I can't even get it off to clean inside of it. I've currently got it soaking in Ballistol in hopes that it might free up the baseplate so that I can clean inside of it, (if the barrel and magwell were dirty, then so is the magazine) but I'm not particularly optimistic that it will work. But worst of all is that the barrel has a large dent at the muzzle which appears to be deep enough to affect the accuracy of the pistol. I can live with it being in less than perfect condition, as a bit of wear only adds to the charm and mystique of old MilSurp firearms to me, but assuming that I'm correct and the dent to the barrel at the muzzle is deep enough to affect accuracy, then that's a deal-breaker.
Granted that I may have received "the runt of the litter" so to speak, but considering that my example doesn't match the description at all, it and any other examples like it should have been separated from the rest, described more accurately, and priced accordingly.

That being said, the firearm does appear to be at the very least mechanically sound, so obviously I can still shoot it, (provided that the magazine isn't so rusted out and fouled up internally that it's still functional, that is) but I'm nevertheless greatly displeased that the Tokarev I received is not in anywhere near the condition that it was described as.
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Needless to say, I won't be ordering another firearm from the retailer ever again. It has been an entirely negative experience which the retailer has made no attempt to resolve and has taken an "all sales are final" approach to in regards to my dissatisfaction.

However, I've managed to clean my Tokarev up quite nicely since I received it. The magazine may unfortunately be a lost cause, but at least it's an easily replaceable part of the firearm.

EDIT: Added some pics so folks can see that it isn't a complete wreck or anything, just a far cry from being "meticulously reconditioned and refinished" as the seller described.

You win some, you lose some with milsurps, even when there are pictures. That's how I ended up with a ZF marked Enfield No.4. Maybe one day I'll part it out because the bore is perfect. I suspect something went awry with the locking recess hardening because the headspace was best measured using thick books, regardless of what bolt I put in it.

That's the problem with buying a gun on the internet.

Some buyers are quite picky, some not so much. Same with the sellers description.

You never really know what you are going to get until it arrives.

You know yourself best, and if you are one of those folks who are picky, or tend to get a fixed thought in your head about what something will be to the point you expect it, then hands on buying is the only real answer.

Been down that road myself. Been disappointed a few times, and pleasantly surprised a couple times as well.

Larry

It's Luck of the draw. Last gun I bought off the web was a Star BM 9, and it was probably 96%. Some bluing lost on the back and front strap, but that was it. Paid the $20 extra for "Hand Select" and it was that. The Spanish policeman who carried it took exceptional care.

So I guess I was pleasantly surprised.

So, who was the selling company? I, too, received a nice Star BM 9, and also a nice CZ 83. Maybe my third will be bad, who knows?

As they say, without pictures...........

Might be interesting to see what "meticulously reconditioned" translates from in Romanian....
Also interesting to see what they started with... (i.e. not reconditioned.)

I guess I just made the mistake of taking the description at face value, expecting it to be accurate to all examples in the lot and that others of various grades would be separated, given their own description, and priced lower than those which where "meticulously reconditioned and refinished" as was the case with some of their other listings.

I'm relatively new to ordering firearms online, so I wasn't aware that it was to be expected that product descriptions weren't accurate and were to be taken with a grain of salt. Add that to the list of things that I wish I had known going in, as well as my list of reasons why ordering firearms online isn't for me.

Call me old-fashioned, but I expect descriptions of products I purchase to be accurate. I get that when it comes to MilSurps that there may be a wide degree of variation in terms of wear, but if that's the case then the description ought to reflect that. It ought to straight up tell you with a simple description which might as well amount to; "Mama always said life was like a box o' chocolates, ya nevah know what ya gonna get." Not a misleading description which only reflects the absolute finest examples of the lot. It's false advertisement, deceptive marketing, blatant dishonesty, and in many ways, petty swindling.

I know that folks with guilty consciences will be along shortly to play spin-doctor for the retailer whose name I haven't even revealed and therefore they shouldn't be so defensive, but they can go right on ahead and out themselves, pass the buck onto me, or make whatever excuses they like to dismiss such behavior as anything but reprehensible. I don't play that game, I'm unhappy with the retailer for misleading me with a description that was completely inaccurate to that which I received, and I feel like venting about it.

Through the years, I have purchased and received a beautiful CZ83 and Beretta 84 (and recently one of the Beretta 81s). But then, a couple of years ago when all of the Star BMs came in, and everyone talked about how nice they were (I already owned another one for years and loved it), I received this one from Classic, that was supposedly in "good" condition. I couldn't get the barrel bushing out, it was so rusted. Barrel was rusted.

I had to fuss with them - they claimed that it met the condition for good. But eventually they relented and determined it was unsafe to shoot because of the barrel bushing and refunded my money.

Ouch, glad mine wasn't anywhere near as bad as that, but it just goes to show what I'm talking about. My TTC is about as "meticulously reconditioned and refinished" as your Star BM is "good" in terms of condition.

I was just out "surfing" some of the milsurp dealers sites.

I see that there is a whole new scale of condition definitions. There is the usual "Fair, Good, Very Good" condition and then there are "Surplus Fair, Surplus Good, etc."
I wonder if "Surplus Good" can mean there is a clean end that can be used to pick it up.......

Hindsight being what it is ..... too bad it wasn't LOST in the mail so you could file an insurance claim.

hittman77 said:

Hindsight being what it is ..... too bad it wasn't LOST in the mail so you could file an insurance claim.

Click to expand...

Sadly, they wouldn't have done anything about it. This should have been a red flag for me, but the website had signs posted everywhere stating that due to COVID-19 they won't accept any returns and that all sales are final, so I imagine that their response to it getting lost in the mail would basically be; "Sucks to be you."

Oh well, it seems to at the very least be shootable, and that's really what I was buying it for anyway, so as long as it goes bang when I pull the trigger it won't be a total loss.

Also, I don't know if I mentioned this before, but the upfront cost was only $220 and my FFL gave me a $15 discount on the Transfer Fee because I also bought a Glock 17 Gen 5 while I was there, so it's not like I spent a ton of money on it.

If nothing else, it has taught me a valuable lesson about purchasing firearms online.

Dirty Harry,

Why not mention the dealer you brought your gun through? It may be helpful for those of us that are shopping for surplus guns.

As for your TT33 I have never seen one in better than what I call “Good” condition. I had one and while the gun has some interesting features I didn’t keep it long. The Commies and Third World Countries are hard on their firearms. Finding that rare gem that is excellent condition is what keeps us in the hunt. (For example I have a unfired, nib Makarov).

The good news is with the panic and social unrest you should not have any trouble recouping your money. Just make sure it functions, add a box ammo and smile all the way to the bank.

If you buy a milsurp, you're going to pretty well be required to buy on-line.

Milsurp

Hey Harry, Mod34 here - I admittedly haven't read all of the responses, but your post title line tells us all YOU need to know!

"Nough said (little WINK emoji isn't working!)

BSA1 said:

Dirty Harry,

Why not mention the dealer you brought your gun through? It may be helpful for those of us that are shopping for surplus guns.

Click to expand...

Because it's against the rules, apparently. I just recently got an infraction for merely mentioning the name of a website.

I decided to update the thread with some pics since I didn't want folks to get the wrong idea. The gun is by no means in horrible condition like jmace57's Star BM, it merely doesn't fit the description that it has been "meticulously reconditioned and refinished".

Granted that the pics were taken today, long after I finished cleaning it up, so it looks substantially better than it did the first day I got it, but it still showcases some of the issues I described in the review.
Notice that the safety lever is missing as I described. I never bothered to put the safety back in because it's completely superfluous to the design to begin with, merely a crude trigger block safety added to adhere to the import restrictions imposed by the Gun Control Act of 1968, so the gun functions perfectly without it. In fact, it actually functions a bit smoother since the safety caused the magazine to drag against it during loading/unloading, requiring magazines to be stripped by hand out of the magwell because they couldn't drop free.
I tried to get a good pic of the dent at the muzzle of the barrel as well, but lightning wasn't really on my side so it appears more shallow and less noticeable than it really is.
Lastly I tried to get some good pics of the holster wear and scratches on the top of the slide, but they're largely camoflaged by the shine.

Anyway, I just wanted to clarify that the gun isn't in completely wretched condition. I know that some folks might feel that I was making too big a deal out of it given the condition as seen in the pics, but that's partially why I posted them in the first place, because I didn't mean to imply that the gun was completely messed up, merely that I was displeased that it didn't fit the description provided on the website.

Looks pretty good to me. Perhaps you're looking for a new pistol for $219? Glad you (or someone) got rid of that nasty safety. I'd be quite pleased with that gun as cleaned up.

Over a 20 year period I ordered Milsurps online many many times. I can honestly say that I never got a bad one.

One of the premier dealers sold a rifle class called "u-fix-ems", meaning missing parts, etc. I got many a rifle that I could not tell from "good" and for 16 bucks how could you complain? Some of them are now going for several hundred.

Sorry for your dilemma. Hope you don't give up and have better luck next time.