A dealer where I've bought some surplus Berettas from has some Carcano M91 carbines chambered in 6.5 x 52 mm. I have no idea about either the rifles or the cartridges (availability, etc.). Rifles' cost is $239 to $329, depending on condition I suppose. I don't have any cool rifles besides a '94 Winchester (Sears' Model 100 Ted Williams) and a 1947 Marlin 39A. I don't expect top quality, etc. on the rifles, but if I did want to shoot them, do they sell the cartridges? They're kinda cool-looking rifles; just something I'd like to play with. Any info would be appreciated.
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A surplus rifle question.
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merl67
SWCA Member
As to the ammo question yes you can get ammo from PPU if my memory serves me right. Second I've owned a number of these with great bores, and crowns that would not group worth a hoot. I was trying to see if these guns were accurate enough to make head sized shots @100 yards never found one that would. Now if you really got to have one those prices are probably in line with what everything else is going for right now. If I was ever going to have another Carcano it would be the Calvary version.
OP
I believe the ad said Calvary carbine. Thinking about it I believe I'd be wasting my money. Not saying the guns aren't worth it, just I really don't need one. They just looked kinda cool. Thank you. I need to buy something different. Even would look cool hangin' on my wall! Just not familiar with these guns.
merl67
SWCA Member
The neatest looking carbines are the 1891 Argentine Calvary Carbines and they shoot great !
Those Carcanos have gone up a lot since 1963. I think Lee Harvey Oswald paid $20 for his, including a 4X scope.
I was lucky enough to have bought some pretty cool milsurps over the last 20+ years when the supply and variety were much greater, and the prices way lower. I tried to stick to calibers that were easy to source, and for which there was either cheap surplus ammo, or commercial ammo available for when the milsurp dried up. I don't reload. I even ended up selling a Lee Enfield No4MKIT, Swedish M96B and a Swiss K31, all top notch surplus rifles, because of the relative difficulty in obtaining ammo. I only bought designs that I considered historically significant and in calibers I found interesting. I'd likely never buy a Carcano.
If all you want to do is shoot, then you'll be much better served with a Ruger American, Predator, etc., or a Savage 110 type rifle in .223, .308, or 6.5 Creedmoor if you don't mind paying a little more for ammo.
If you really want a cheap surplus rifle, which these days will likely cost more than a cheap or used modern rifle such as the above, then I recommend you go no lower than an "8mm" Turkish Mauser. Even though I own a few Mosin Nagants, the designs and workmanship are extremely rudimentary, with the exception of the reworked Finns, which have become very expensive. Look for a Mauser, even if it's a Turkish, Yugoslavian refurb, etc.
Good luck on your search!
If all you want to do is shoot, then you'll be much better served with a Ruger American, Predator, etc., or a Savage 110 type rifle in .223, .308, or 6.5 Creedmoor if you don't mind paying a little more for ammo.
If you really want a cheap surplus rifle, which these days will likely cost more than a cheap or used modern rifle such as the above, then I recommend you go no lower than an "8mm" Turkish Mauser. Even though I own a few Mosin Nagants, the designs and workmanship are extremely rudimentary, with the exception of the reworked Finns, which have become very expensive. Look for a Mauser, even if it's a Turkish, Yugoslavian refurb, etc.
Good luck on your search!
merl67
SWCA Member
MG-70 has good advice a good Turk Mauser wouldn't cost much more or even better one of the Yugo ones a 24 or 48 model. The only Mosin Nagant
I regret selling was a very early1893 one made at the French Chatternault factory it was a wonderful gun.
I regret selling was a very early1893 one made at the French Chatternault factory it was a wonderful gun.
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There is a very interesting article about the M-C in a recent issue of American Rifleman.
And it's easy to mix up the name of the hill and the military branch that uses horses - the latter is "cavalry".
And it's easy to mix up the name of the hill and the military branch that uses horses - the latter is "cavalry".
I own a fair number of milsurps and have owned a couple of 6.5 Carcanos in the past. Run, don’t walk away from a 6.5 Carcano unless you want an over priced wall hanger. Yes there is probably some very expensive commercial ammo available some where in the world. And they can be fired but only for the noise effect. There are too many reasons to go into here now why there are WAY better milsurps available for your money than any Carcano.
Forget the Carcano and find a Swedish Mauser.
smithra_66
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If you do plan to shoot them be sure to get a headspace gauge set and ensure that headspace is still good.
I do that with any milsurp gun I plan to shoot.
Believe me, there are A LOT of them out there that have excessive headspace from years of shooting and use/abuse.
Any 98 Mauser is a better gun than any of the rifles made on the pre 98 actions, including the Swedes. Yes they are well made but the design is the problem. 8mm is the most common caliber and is actually the best for a hunting rifle. Don’t judge a book by it’s cover and NEVER buy an old milsurp for a shooter without a good look at the bore condition. And never buy one that has a counter bored muzzle if you plan to shoot groups instead of patterns with it.
gregintenn
Member
Don't waste your money. I have one and it is junk. A box of ammo for it is more valuable than the rifle in my opinion. Ammo is hard to find and very expensive if you do happen across some.
They are many fine surplus rifles from many different countries floating around out there. The Carcano is at the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.
They are many fine surplus rifles from many different countries floating around out there. The Carcano is at the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.
OldSarge21
Member
Calvary - three crosses on a hill
Cavalry - horse mounted soldiers
Cavalry - horse mounted soldiers
LVSteve
Member
The biggest issue with the Carcano is undersized ammo. They are described as 6.5x52mm which in the US means .264" bullets. Thing is the Italians engineered the Carcano very differently, and most actually require .266-.268" bullets because the rifling grooves are deeper than US engineered guns. Italian ammo is a round nosed 162gr slug with a thick jacket to get into the deep rifling. I say "most", because the late WWII rifles built at Cremona under German supervision have tighter bores, better suited to .264" rounds. Most (maybe all) of those rifles are the 1941 long rifle.
One thing to watch with Carcano carbines is that there is one model, the 91/24 or 91/28, that were cut down long rifles that had gain twist rifling. The result was that they didn't stabilize bullets very well, especially the undersized ammo.
With all that going on it's hardly a surprise that the Carcano rifle gained a reputation as being inaccurate in the hands of US owners using SAAMI (i.e. wrong) ammo.
One thing to watch with Carcano carbines is that there is one model, the 91/24 or 91/28, that were cut down long rifles that had gain twist rifling. The result was that they didn't stabilize bullets very well, especially the undersized ammo.
With all that going on it's hardly a surprise that the Carcano rifle gained a reputation as being inaccurate in the hands of US owners using SAAMI (i.e. wrong) ammo.
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I've been a Mauser collector since you could buy them at Western Auto. I have a ton of love for large ring Mausers like the 98. To say the 98 is superior to a Swede small ring action is not a valid comparison. 98s are efficient brutes where as Swedes are works of art. 7.92x57 is a moose. 6.5X55 is a gazelle.
If it came to betting the swizzle stick collection on hitting a steel plate at 600 yards I'll take the Swede over any 98.
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You will also need the 5-shot 'En-Bloc' clips to load and function the rifle as a repeater. This Mannlicher featurer is the same as on the GEW88, the 1895 Steyr 'Dutch'/'93 Romanian and others.
But none of the sheet metal enbloc clips are interchangeable betw the different models.
The rifle will function as a single shot w/o the 'clip'.
They are re-usable and with some normal handling last a long time.
The clip falls free of the rifle out of the bottom of the magazine box when the last round is chambered. A good feature in combat but they have a tendency to get lost on the ground or stepped on at the range and crushed.
The Carcano can be a pretty fun range toy if you like Milsurps.
Cheap ammo was never really much of a reality. But commercial stuff is still out there in some form it seems.
The safety is tough to operate for many. They were always at the bottom of the Milsurp pile along with most of the Japanese & Russian rifles as far as price.
Not any more.
But I'd still look around for a Mauser of some mfg for a shooter if you're indifferent to the exact type of Milsurp and just wanted a range blaster.
But none of the sheet metal enbloc clips are interchangeable betw the different models.
The rifle will function as a single shot w/o the 'clip'.
They are re-usable and with some normal handling last a long time.
The clip falls free of the rifle out of the bottom of the magazine box when the last round is chambered. A good feature in combat but they have a tendency to get lost on the ground or stepped on at the range and crushed.
The Carcano can be a pretty fun range toy if you like Milsurps.
Cheap ammo was never really much of a reality. But commercial stuff is still out there in some form it seems.
The safety is tough to operate for many. They were always at the bottom of the Milsurp pile along with most of the Japanese & Russian rifles as far as price.
Not any more.
But I'd still look around for a Mauser of some mfg for a shooter if you're indifferent to the exact type of Milsurp and just wanted a range blaster.
Dave from Pa
SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
Good advice from many regarding quality and cost.You get what you pay for.If you want a military surplus rifle that you can shoot and be the envy of other shooters at the range get a M-1 Garand from the CMP.Field grades are 650.00/service grade is 750.00.It would be money well spent and not difficult to purchase.Go to the CMP web page and do a little research on how to purchase.Personally I would never pay that price for a Carcano since they are considered low quality by many.
Ivan the Butcher
Member
The Carcano cartridge (6.5x52, by the way, 52mm is metric speak for 2") is a great round! It was adapted from the 6.5x54 MS and put into service to fight a long term enemy, The Austrians! It is designed to shoot from one side of a valley to the other (300 meters), then pernitrate heavy winter clothing, and at that point kill or disable a Germanic Warrior (2 world wars taught us how hard that could be!)
The cartridge it replaced was a 10 to 11mm short black powder cartridge similar to 38-40 WCF, 41 Velletti (Swiss was RF, Italian was center fire.
PPU and Norma both make Boxer primed reloadable cased ammo. I used Norma sporting and Federal FMJ (in Norma brass) with very good accuracy.
New reloading dies are outrageous! Check gun shows for older used dies (I got mine for $10 years ago!) The Hornady 160 grain FMJ RN was made for the 6.5x52 Car. and he 6.5x54 MS. This bullet has one of the highest sectional densities there is! That translates into great penetration. Any powder you use on 303 British will be good for Carcano, just less of it. I happen to like IMR 3031 for just about all medium military rounds.
Ivan
The cartridge it replaced was a 10 to 11mm short black powder cartridge similar to 38-40 WCF, 41 Velletti (Swiss was RF, Italian was center fire.
PPU and Norma both make Boxer primed reloadable cased ammo. I used Norma sporting and Federal FMJ (in Norma brass) with very good accuracy.
New reloading dies are outrageous! Check gun shows for older used dies (I got mine for $10 years ago!) The Hornady 160 grain FMJ RN was made for the 6.5x52 Car. and he 6.5x54 MS. This bullet has one of the highest sectional densities there is! That translates into great penetration. Any powder you use on 303 British will be good for Carcano, just less of it. I happen to like IMR 3031 for just about all medium military rounds.
Ivan
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