Read the book “Shots Fired In Anger “ by Lt Col John George USAR , Pacific Theater WWII . He claims that every time he put the front sight on the khaki colored shirt of a Jap soldier and tripped the hammer , they went down and never got up .

Personally , I have killed several whitetails and muleys with 110gr SP’s , all under 150 yds . Most inside of 75yds . It lets the air outta them but not real fast .

In the 80s I had a WWII Winchester and a universal, the Universal was un reliable but I had a lot of fun eith the Winchester until it did a "Full Auto" when my son was shooting it. Then it was closet bound for a few years befor I got around to looking to repair it. Got busy and just sol both to a friend eventually. Then around ten years ago I got the bug and bought a Ruger Blackhawk and a Kahr Arms M1. After a couple hundred rounds it has shot perfectly ever since. It cost me $650 I believe and is actually in the bedroom along with the Saint Victor.

This Inland cost me all of $30, delivered to my front door - DCM, 1962.



This untouched all-original WWII veteran from Standard Products was one I found while standing in line to get into a gun show. Not sure what I paid for it, but I know I probably could not afford it now.



Here's a bona fide M1A1 I picked up many years ago - another one I couldn't afford today. Inland, of course.



It's hard for me to get my mind around today's prices - I really feel for those who are just starting out to collect.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

Here is a researched military doc on Korean War weapons wherein the author refers to the M1 and M2 carbines as the "...most loathed..." of American infantry weapons. COMMENTARY ON INFANTRY OPERATIONS AND WEAPONS USAGE IN KOREA, WINTER OF 1950-51

Late '80's early '90's I bought a couple "Blue Sky" importer M1 carbines. They were from S. Korea and were phosphate refinished. Mine were $125 ea and had a bayonet lug. Both were Inland and one had a stock that was covered with carved initials. I found another stock for the one and dressed them both up with belt mounted ammo pouches attached to their stocks. I took them to a show and when I walked through the door I was swarmed by dealers wanting them. I hope the ones available now are in better shape than mine.

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SOS USA

Well, $375 in 2008 is $465 today, with inflation. Not going to find many $465 Carbines these days. It just shows what a great deal the CMP carbines were back then.

Just for clarity, the 6 million figure is about right. Serial numbers were assigned in blocks to the ten different manufacturers, to avoid duplication. Not every number within these blocks was used.

Winchester and Inland did make carbines in 1945.

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You're shy a few manners.

The thing that many people seem to forget is that the carbine was not intended to be a front line infantry weapon. Instead, it's target audience would be support personnel, like truck drivers and cooks, folks that would have otherwise been issued pistols. In other words, it was intended to be a personal defense weapon, not an offensive arm.

The fact that this weapon was carried by so many front line troops is a testament to its utility and handiness. Most skirmishes did not take place at the 400-800 yard range in which the battle rifle excels, instead being short range affairs. In these jump up short range encounters, a light handy carbine chambered in a round with similar ballistics to the .357 magnum proved to be very effective.

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Only a cold warrior

No M-2 .30 Carbines on Tarawa, find a copy of “ War Baby”, the bible on .30 Carbines.
Quote, page 241 of War Baby....” A production engineering meeting was held at Inland from October 25,to 28, 1944 in order to examine and test the first 25 of the 500 production T-4 carbines being made under the September, 1944 contract.” End quote.

I went to work for my first PD in 1983, starting in Dispatch in a small Illinois town. The "Armory" was a large closet right past the dispatch desk, and the first time they opened the door for me I thought I'd died and gone to heaven....the back wall was lined with dozens of M-1's and M-2's, and there was a stack of loaded magazines about five feet high. They had me pick my duty weapon from a large assortment of handguns, most taken from bad guys over the years. I snagged a beautiful M-27 with a 3.5" barrel that had allegedly come out of a Chicago Mobster's car after he beat her up and fled town. But I digress. I never got to shoot any of those carbines.

Two years later at another PD in another state, my Corporal knew I was a gun fancier, and offered me a Universal carbine for $125 with several boxes of ammo. It ran just fine with hardball, and I loved it, but wanted something with more oomph (scientific term, for you neophytes :-) )so I sold it back to the same Corporal for the same price.

I read it several years ago, but Massad Ayoob noted that Dr Marvin Fackler, then the head of the FBI's Wound Ballistics Lab, kept an M-1 Carbine as his primary home defense weapon. It wouldn't be my first choice, but nor would it be my last!

And no, I won't be buying any of Unca Larry's overpriced offerings. "New Normal" or not I think that price point is just plain ridiculous.

That is correct, I'm sure. Clarence was not a 'gun guy,' and only hunted waterfowl with an old Remington humpback 12 gauge prior to the Navy.

He seldom talked about his service, and he only mentioned the carbine because I was about to buy one as a first deer rifle at a surplus/discount store in the '60s. Of course, he was not in favor of it. He then opened up about Tarawa, the Japanese, and the VA. He spoke of it only one time again to me, and then only because I asked.

As far as information changing over time, I know for a fact that happens. In August, '93 one of my troops (he's still living, so I won't mention his name) killed a felon in a semi-truck who did a PIT maneuver and pushed my officer sideways along I-10 for several hundred feet. While sideways across the front of the semi at 80 mph, he had the presence of mind to empty his issue AR-15's 30 round mag into the cab. One round penetrated the decendent's leg, blowing off his kneecap and entering his heart. I got there as my troop was trying to order the driver out of the truck; we finally ascertained he wouldn't be coming out without a body bag.

Fast forward to 2011 or so. I was sitting in an auditorium at ENMU when NMSP Lt. Frank Musitano (he had been a junior patrolman in '93) told a rather more exciting version of the story at what should have been a recruiting talk, adding that my troop had fired 30 rounds and "...any one of them would have been fatal." Well, Frank (he died of cancer a few years ago) had been at the scene, but late, and really only directed traffic around the mess. He didn't know I was in the audience.

Ask me if I'd rather believe my great-uncle or Frank.

I haven't seen this link posted; so, here it is, in case anyone with one of these M1 carbines is interested.

U.S. Carbines in Germany and Austria

If you want to be a collector of M1 Carbines, be aware that it will require considerable research and observation, otherwise it will be an expensive and consternating experience. Best to concentrate on one manufacturer at a time, like Inland. If you just want a good shooter, there are plenty at reasonable prices. We call them "Mixmasters".

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NRA Life Benefactor,Life NCGCA

Nothing wrong with mixmasters. They represent the practices of the armories of the time keeping troops supplied with weapons. It is also a commentary on the excellent production techniques and tolerances that allowed the interchange of parts. Yes, I can hear the "all matching or nothing" purists starting their tar boilers and gathering their pitchforks as I type.

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Release the Kraken

Shoot, an "all matching" M1 carbine would be a huge red flag for me. As you said, the M1 carbine story is also one of really cool manufacturing and logistics accomplishments, and many, and maybe a majority, rolled right into the army's hands as what we'd call mixmasters. Hell, my M1 carbine is an Inland, but one where Saginaw even made the receiver for them. Trying to get all one manufacturer's parts on a carbine might be a fun project but it's definitely not how it left service, and likely pretty far removed from how it entered service too.

I'm personally of the mind to just leave em alone, but to each their own on that one.

I see WWII & Korea mentioned. Well in 67 at Da Nang there was a shortage of M16s so on the flight line for F-4S & F-100s we were issued the carbines. Old lifers called them rabbit guns.

Make an M1 Carbine a better shooter, rebarrel to 5.7 Johnson.
AKA .22 Spitfire. Add a reddot scope and call, here kitty, kitty. Yes i
I have one like that.

Llance

Today’s price point will stretch the comfort level of some.

Many who can’t or don’t want to pony up will find a reason to dislike the gun.

These are popular for a reason and will surely sell out in short order.

I remember 10 years ago many thought I’d lost my mind paying $450 for a mint in box with shipper snub nose stainless Ruger Security Six. Wish now I’d a bought 10 of them at that price.

My take away from the linked piece is that the M2 wasn't a great success and that many soldiers went into spray and pray mode under stress. The latter is hardly a surprise.

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Release the Kraken

Not that long ago the CMP was selling bare Garand receivers, bought two, requested and received six digit ser # (would make them in the WWII dates) SA receivers, I got very lucky there. I also had a six digit SA Garand I bought from a fellow Bullseye shooter about six month prior, I swapped out most of the parts to bring that rifle up to as new as I wanted all of them to be. Focusing on building two rifles up to as new I had new barrels installed, bought new wood from Boyd's and bought all the parts from fellow CMP members on the forum. I did a lot of buying, selling & swapping until I had all like new parts, at that time parts were no problem to find and damn good prices because of the flood of parts. Once I had the two builds were completed the way I wanted them I sent them out to Tim Shufflin to have the barrels installed and reparked them. As I say my goal was to bring them back to "as new" and make them really great shooters, they both came out very nice, just like new. I care nothing about collecting so mixing maker of parts doesn't matter to me, I just wanted excellent condition parts. I became friends with Tim, one day he told me he had designed a 16" barreled version of the Garand named the Mini-G, I had that one bare receiver from the CMP left. He said he was looking for 5-6 people who would be interested in a bargain getting them built if they would run them through paces to see how they ran before announcing to the public he would be building them, I jumped at the opportunity and ended up with Mini-G #5, and so stamped ;-) The Mini-G's are the same length at the M1 Carbine and a ton of fun to shoot.

I also have a couple M1 Carbines I built the same way but those were barreled receivers I bought off the forum and I left the original barrels on those, they shoot well enough, the Carbines were never match guns and never will be, the Garand's on the other hand can be made to match grade rifles.

Check out Tim's website and his videos of the Mini-G on youtube http://shuffsparkerizing.com/services/the-mini-g/
Oh, and that Mini-G, I take that to the range much more often then I do the Garands. Also during those days the CMP was selling that good HXP surplus Garand ammo, spam cans of 192 rounds of ammo, on enbloc clips, in bandoleers for around $65 shipped, I bought a ton and still have a lot left, those were good times!

Another one of Tim's videos, this one with Tim showing the mag feed conversion he also does if one chooses to add that to the build, mine is not the mag fed version, just the 16" barrel conversion.

That was a great deal in retrospect, you did well.

This is 2021.

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Sure you did

I recently picked up my first M1 and I love it. Shoots great and is a lot of fun. I still prefer the Garand but "why not both"?

I love the WW2 guns (on all sides but particularly American and German).
Knowing Audie Murphy used and loved it, I'm in!

This Standard Products M1 is an exception to the rule. The guy I bought it from had it since the early 1960s, and to his knowledge it had never been monkeyed with. On examination, I found that ALL parts, including the magazine, were Standard Products-made. I believe the way it looks now is the way it looked when it went to war from Port Clinton, Ohio in early 1944. The owner before me didn't try to bill it as all-matching or try to boost the price because of it. A side note - the work force at Standard Products at that time was almost all female, as most of the men were in the service.

John

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- Cogito, ergo armatus sum -

If you have the $$ it would be a good idea to try and get one, looking at the list a lot of them are sold out.

If you can swing it, by all means get both so you experience the strengths and weaknesses of each. As great as the M1 Rifle was, you can see how time has passed it by. No modern army would field a rifle like that, except maybe as a crew-served weapon! Would anybody seriously consider using one for home defense? As others have posted here, the little carbine can serve that role just fine.

From period photographs of M1 Carbine production, I think the same was true at IBM. On a personal note, my Aunt Peg lost the tip of her little finger to a band saw working production at a defense plant during the war. I never heard her complain about it once. American women stepped up BIG TIME to win the war.

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You're shy a few manners.

From page 70: However, there is some illuminating comment. In the approximately 50 infantry actions covered, there were in all 7 witnesses who said that they had fired at an enemy soldier under conditions where there was no doubt the bullet struck him in a vital part of the body, and that he kept on coming. One such witness is 1st Lt. Joseph R. Fisher, 1st Marine Regiment. He was speaking of the defense at Hagaru-ri. The First Marine Division regarded him as one of its ablest and most objective company commanders. These were his words. "About 30 percent of our carbines gave us trouble; some wouldn't fire at at all; some responded sluggishly. But the main reason my men lost confidence in the carbine was because they would put a bullet right in a Chink's chest at 25 yards range and he wouldn't stop. This happened to me. The bullet struck home; the man simply winced and kept on coming. There were about half a dozen of my men made this same complaint; some of them swore they had fired three or four times, hit the man each time, and still not stopped him."

Inaccuracy

Complaint about the inaccuracy of carbine fire was general throughout First Marine Division following the Chosen Reservoir operation. In this action, there was considerable daylight fighting over a period of two weeks against enemy forces moving within moderate distances; these testing conditions do not occur frequently in Korean warfare. Koto-ri, Hagaru-ri, and Udam-ni were all virtually siege operations, with enemy pressing forward around the clock. There was a real opportunity for marksmanship to count. The accuracy of the carbine did not meet the requirements of the situation.

About three years ago, I found this National Postal Meter in a local shop. It was an Italian return gun, given the fat bellied Italian made stock. It was in a group of six or so carbines from an estate sale and the price was $700. I picked this one due to the overall condition and it's excellent bore. (The barrel has a 1943 man. date) There were others in the group in poorer condition, but with higher collector value do to their features. I wanted a good shooting example so that wasn't my top priority. I replaced the Italian stock with a new one of original WWII profile and I've been quite pleased with it. I doubted if I'd find a good one cheaper in the future, so I snapped it up.






I've experienced good reliability with it. Original GI 15 round mags have been 100%. I've only experienced a couple of malfunctions in several hundred rounds with 30 round Korean mags. This has been with both fmj and softpoint ammunition. The mags are the real Achilles heel in the system. They're made of thin gauge metal and easily damaged, so they don't take rough handling. The other issue is, it needs proper lubrication with grease, like it's big brother the Garand. Awareness of these factors will eliminate most issues.

Regarding its effectiveness as a mankiller. There's been so much excrement written about that, much of it parroted right here. Everyone has the story of their father, brother, grandfather, best friends cousin of a guy who lived down the street, who had bad experiences with it. Sure, the cousin of a guy who lived down the street was a scared pantless 19 year old serviceman, who shot a charging Chinese soldier fifteen times at the frozen Chosin, before he put him down. Okay, did you shoot him fifteen times or shoot *at* him fifteen times? Did you pause in the middle of things, kneel down in the snow and check the hits? Of course you didn't, so the cousin of a guy who lived down the street is telling sea stories, just like old veterans do. I don't believe that any more than I believe the story, recounted upthread, of soldiers on Guadalcanal, Okinawa, or wherever, throwing them in trash cans.

Audie Murphy, the most highly decorated US serviceman of WWII, held the carbine as a favorite. My own father, a career marine with combat service in WWII, Korea and two tours in Vietnam, was a stone cold killer who had no problem with it. Jim Cirillo, of the NYPDs famous Stakeout Unit, stated the M1 Carbine was their most effective weapon. I personally don't need any other endorsements. I've personally hunted wild hogs in Texas with it and I never needed more than one shot on those notoriously tough animals. Like most firearms, it will work if you can shoot.

There have been comments in this thread comparing the costs of these Midway guns to that of an AR15. This myopic mindset is missing the forest for the trees. The two are purchased for entirely different reasons and priorities and that's an apples to oranges comparison. The M1 Carbine can certainly be used as a defensive tool, after all that's what it was designed for. In terms of home defense, it's a weapon anyone in a household can use if needed, from a ten year old child to a grown man. It's size, weight and lack of recoil make it a favorite in family outtings at the range. All that being said, there are better tools for defense here in 2021. The little carbine should really live on as primarily a recreational shooter and a fascinating piece of firearms history.

It doesn't matter what you or I paid for something in the past. The past is a different country and they do things differently there. I continually see people on this forum be very insulting to others because they paid far less for something years before. This is juvenile and unnecessary. The price paid in the past is irrelevant. The only purchasing factor should be what something may cost in the future. The cost of M1 Carbines will not be going down.

Regardless of all of this, I wouldn't pay Midway's prices.

My initial interest in the two I purchased (sold the first one) was a carbine for home defense. Before I figured out how to rebuild and maintain one I felt they were unreliable and can certainly understand why that's an opinion among many who own them. While I learned the mechanics of the M1 carbine I set mine aside and bought a Mini-14 for the duties of home defense. It's a better cartridge anyway and absolutely 100% reliable. Plus optics are easy to attach where the M-1 isn't designed for it. I have a lot of fun with my M-1 though, took it to the range on Friday. A few years ago a relative who is a novel writer/WW2 historian wanted some time on it so he could relate to it's use in WW2. He got what he wanted. He loved shooting it.

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That's just somebody talkin.

Then you have no confidence in the peer-reviewed-before-publication DOD DTIC document? http://smith-wessonforum.com/redirec...ns%2FAD0000342

I've told this story before so I'll ask forgiveness from those who have seen it already.

Until just a few years ago I carried a M1 carbine in M1A1 configuration for a patrol carbine as a deputy sheriff. My department bought 60 surplus M1 carbines for $150 each in 2000. These appeared to have been re-imported in from Israel. Overall, they were well used but very serviceable. Having some previous experience with M1 carbines as a collector, I was assigned the task of servicing them so we could issue them for duty. This was a very enjoyable and exciting 3 month assignment.



I stripped the carbines down and completely cleaned them and replaced all the springs with new ones. The stocks that were salvageable we stripped and refinished with boiled linseed oil, but some we restocked with new ones. We even tried out a few synthetic stocks with rails that actually worked pretty well. We also bought what seems like a ton of FMJ ammo for practice, but for duty use we carry round-nosed-soft-hollow-points.

I spent a great deal of time on the range testing every rifle. We share our range with several local police departments, many of which issue or authorize the use of black rifles. I got a lot of time shooting side by side with AR's in friendly competitions for accuracy and tactical training. Flat out the M1 carbine held it's own at anything under 150 yards. Reliability was 100%, so for those who complain about their carbines not being reliable, you need to consider changing out those 60+ year old USGI springs.

Back to the ammo . . . I won't argue about whether the Chinese quilted jackets stopping the .30 carbine round is a myth or not, but I will tell you it WILL penetrate Level II and IIA ballistic vests. It will also defeat auto glass and auto body. The 110 grain round-nosed-soft-hollow-point is a very effective round. (Though I don't recommend the .30 carbine as a deer cartridge, I have taken 4 legal bucks with this round and they were all one stop shots at 40-60 yards.)



Through experience, stay away from 30 round magazines. Commercial magazines are a hit or miss reliability gamble. 30 round USGI magazines, though much more reliable, will cost $75.00+ on the collector market. I have been using 20 round commercial magazines with very good success and that's what I use now. Of course, USGI 15 round magazines operate pretty much flawlessly as do the newer Korean made 15 round magazines.

The question is would the M1 carbine make a good home defense weapon. My answer would be absolutely yes. Just remember, though I think the M1 carbine is pretty much over-engineered for the .30 carbine round it shoots, USGI carbines are all over 70 years old. If you are going to let your life depend on it, make sure it's in 100% operating condition.

Attached Images

	M1 Carbines - Pile.jpg (50.6 KB, 266 views)
	M1 carbine ammo.jpg (55.3 KB, 258 views)

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- Change it back -

As a home defense weapon, my Rock-Ola loaded with soft point or hollow point ammo would be a heck of a lot more effective than one loaded with FMJ's. Given its light weight and short length plus firepower it's probably a better choice than a shotgun too.
Glad I bought one when they were still reasonable.

I dunno, on TV I saw a lump of modelling clay shot at close range with FMJ and the cavity created was "most instructive".

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Release the Kraken

The listings do not say anything about CA and state they will be shipped without magazines to avoid state magazine restrictions. I might give it a shot.

The worst they can do is say no.

I had my M1 Carbines out for some range time this afternoon.



The carbine on the bottom has a B marked Underwood receiver (made by Singer) with a serial in the 2.7 million range, an M1 bolt and an Underwood P marked barrel dated 1-44, which is consistent with the serial number. It’s also set in an M1 stock with a correct for the period handguard.

However it has a Rock-Ola slide and an Inland trigger housing with the late style safety lever. That, along with the bayonet lug, make it a pretty typical arsenal rebuilt M1 Carbine.

Typical 50 yard groups with GI ball ammo run about 1” and are 4” high from a 6 o’clock hold.



The carbine at the top has a Saginaw receiver in the 3.3 million range (roughly August 1944) with an M1 bolt, but it has an SA replacement barrel dated 1-1950 and an Inland trigger housing. It sits in a birch M2 stock. Again a pretty typical arsenal reworked M1 Carbine. It’s also a good shooter.

Both are very reliable with GI ball ammo or a decently made clone of GI ball.

But they have this statement under "Product Overview".

WARNING: Cancer and Reproductive Harm - www.P65Warnings.ca.gov.

Now, maybe they're required to place that statement on all items for sale .... I don't know. However, they WILL ship to a C&R License.

While in college in the 80’s, I found a beautiful Quality Hardware CMP
Carbine that had been purchased in the 60’s for $20, and lived its life in a closet ever since. Owner’s wife found it and demanded he sell it “because we have grandchildren coming over here.” The price with 2 bandoliers of Korean era US ball ammo was $175.00, and I was delighted to get it! I shot it quite a lot and enjoyed it greatly. Being poor at the time, I loved that I could make full-power ammo with hand-cast RCBS 120 gr gas checked bullets for $8 per thousand (the gas checks), some labor, 2.5 lbs of powder and elderly estate-sale primers, which were given to me.

This ammo, from the bench, easily outshot GI Ball at 200 yards on silhouette targets, and was very accurate and reliable, with no leading whatsoever. I was using RCBS “green” rifle bullet lubricant, and never did have leading from my cast bullets in any caliber. However, all cast bullets are not created equal! Thinking to save time, I tried 2 different maker’s commercial, machine-cast bullets, and accuracy was abysmal.
My brass was from a 5-gallon bucket of once-fired 1943-1945 era cases
that I bought from an older gentleman’s garage for $20. I had to throw away many from the top layer that had been plugged with cement-like dried mud by insects, but the rest cleaned up fine.

After firing 2000 of the gas-checked lead bullets plus many jacketed, I got curious about possible fouling of the gas port/piston, even though it still ran fine. I used a GI wrench to remove the gas piston and found no lead or fouling — clean as a whistle! I didn’t worry about it after that.

I had it with me when tasked by the land-owner of our deer lease with “policing up” a pack of feral dogs that were chasing our deer. I took it out scouting mid-days, not thinking I’d ever see them. It was loaded with Speer 110 Gr. Varminter hollow-soft points, which it cycled about 95% reliably. As Mr. Clarence (above) found, malfunctions were always and easily cleared by pulling the operating handle to the rear and releasing it.

I had occasion to see the effect of this bullet on about a 40-lb varmint,
and was truly impressed. While I wouldn’t choose to hunt deer with it, the
damage was surprisingly extensive.

New-in-wrap GI 15 rd mags were plentiful back then at $2.00 each in big boxes at every fun show, and I probably tried about 20. I’d put a sticker on the bottom, and keep track of malfunctions over 75 rounds (five full firings) per mag. Many had 1-2, some had zero, and a few had 3. All stoppages were from the cartridge stopping while starting up the feed ramp, and were easily cleared as noted above.

Many carbines have tired recoil springs which reduce reliability. While I wasn’t consciously aware of it’s having a weak spring, I’d bet that a new GI
recoil spring would have helped it a good bit, if not cured it entirely.
Another area I’ve since learned to check on carbines is the extractor, which can be prone to edge wear or chipping.

I “thought” I’d shot the carbine so much that I’d “gotten it out of my system,” so when a dealer offered me $450 for it, I sold it and my mags and brass. But somehow, every decade or two, the historical use of the
Carbine in (primarily, for me) WW2 calls, and I find myself drawn in to ogling them again. They are the world’s best rifle for introducing new shooters to the fine art of plinking, having low noise and no recoil, but sending aluminum soda cans 30-40 feet in the air with a well-placed round... they are simply FUN!!

Boy howdy, do I ever wish I’d kept that Quality Hardware, which would grade “very fine ++” these days! But, that was back when tight income meant that if I was going to try something new, something old was gonna hafta go... like many here, I recoil at the high prices of the better guns at Midway. If you want one, you’ll probably come out ahead to buy from a reputable dealer, in person or, if on GB, at least with lots of detailed pics of the exact rifle you’re buying. In the pics I saw on Midway, I could not make out details such as inspectors cartouches, crossed cannon Ordnance acceptance stamps, etc, which definitely affect the value.

One last WW2 tale: my Dad was a WW2 vet, and a very fine rifle shooter, having competed successfully in Smallbore Rifle on the U. of Kentucky Infantry Reserve Rifle Team from 1939-43. From there, he went straight to OCS. He would have been firing the earliest version of the carbine, with non-adjustable “L” shaped flip sight and narrow front band without bayonet lug (which helps improve accuracy). The carbine was the only weapon he didn’t qualify Expert with, so that kind of soured him on them...

Hope some of this has been helpful and/or entertaining! If you don’t have
a carbine, try one in good condition! You’ll like it — just don’t confuse it with a main battle rifle, which it was never intended to be! 😃

All the best,
John

I have absolutely no confidence in anything written by S.L.A. Marshall. The man was an admitted fabricator and liar. If his "research" is all you have, you don't have anything.

I like the M1 Carbine and have 2 of them. I was hoping that in this Midway batch I could find an early model with the flip rear sight and no bayonet lug. I would buy that.

There has been quite a bit of discussion on a couple of other boards I visit in regard to actually buying one of the Midway rifles. I, myself, have exchanged several e-mails with Midway in regard to these rifles. This is what I have learned:
JMHO: The rifles are priced a bit high. However, not outrageously so. Its just a matter of how bad you want one.

When I asked about the early version I wanted, Midway replied that all rifles are sold "as pictured". if you look at the sale pages, they do have a lot of pictures. Several of each maker they have.
It appears that rifles can be had with or without bayonet lugs. However, all rifles shown have the later adjustable rear sight. So that lets me out right there.
You might also note that none of the pictures show rifles with slings or oilers either.

NOTICE: these rifles are being sold WITHOUT magazines.
There's some gibberish on the web site about restrictive states. However, when I asked directly, Midway did say that the rifles were purchased and did arrive WITHOUT magazines in them. Midway also says that the only magazines they have are the aftermarket brands they normally carry.

Now just imagine what's gonna happen when Midway sells thousands of these things and the new owners start looking for ammo (already in short supply due to the shortage) magazines and accessories all at the same time.
I predict a major shortage and prices skyrocketing on what is available.

I have no doubt that Midway will sell every one of these rifles. Just be prepared when you start looking for ammo and accessories.

Trooper 224:

That's probably his works are still included in the DTIC library. Where can I verify Marshall's lack of credibility?

You mentioned the Jim Cirillo books, authored by Paul Kirschner. Pardon me if I find Marshall more credible than the fellow who authored such quality, peer reviewed reports as 'Dope Rider' (both the early and the 2000s iterations) and who provided original illustrations for 'Screw' magazine.

In the mid-1970s, Kirchner wrote and illustrated the surrealistic comic strip Dope Rider for High Times.

For Heavy Metal he did an equally surrealistic monthly strip, the bus (1979–85). These strips were collected in a book published by Ballantine in 1987. A new edition has been released in 2012 by French publisher Tanibis.[2] Paul Kirchner also wrote and illustrated occasional short features for Heavy Metal and Epic Illustrated. Most of them were collected in the book Realms (Catalan Communications, 1987).

In 1981, through his brother Thomas Kirchner, a Zen Buddhist monk, Paul Kirchner met the Zen practitioner and author Janwillem van de Wetering. Together they produced a graphic detective novel, Murder by Remote Control (Ballantine, 1986).[3]

In 1983–84, Kirchner did the licensing art and in-pack comic books for the Robo Force robot toy line from CBS Toys. From the mid-1980s to the mid-1990s, he wrote and drew comics features for He-Man, GoBots, ThunderCats, G.I. Joe and Power Rangers magazines, published by Telepictures (later Welsh Publications).

He illustrated a surreal cartoon for VQ Magazine and the long-running Jack B. Quick feature in Sports Illustrated for Kids.

Paul Kirchner stopped doing comics from the mid-90s to early 2010s. Between 2013 and 2015 he drew new episodes of the bus which have been published in various magazines in US and in Europe. He also relaunched Dope Rider for High Times.[4] He is currently doing a comic strip, Hieronymus & Bosch, which is featured in the comics section of the Adult Swim website. He drew a four-page autobiographical story for The Boston Globe 2015 Boomers Issue.[5]

Illustration

In the 1970s and early 1980s, Kirchner did several dozen covers for the pornographic magazine Screw. He regularly did illustrations for The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, and other publications.

Non fiction Books

He illustrated Col. Jeff Cooper's To Ride, Shoot Straight and Speak the Truth, as well as seven subsequent books for the noted firearms authority and big game hunter.

Kirchner wrote three pop-culture books for Rhino Entertainment. The first, Forgotten Fads and Fabulous Flops, inspired an episode of The History Channel's Modern Marvels, "Failed Inventions", in which Kirchner is featured.

He has published five books with Paladin Press: The Deadliest Men, Dueling With the Sword and Pistol, Jim Cirillo's Tales of the Stakeout Squad, More of the Deadliest Men Who Ever Lived, and Bowie Knife Fights, Fighters, and Fighting Techniques.

I'd previously gone round & round with Midway and Mr. Potterfield re them not shipping reloading components to certain parts of CA. Finally won that battle.

I have a C&R FFL so Midway not shipping isn't a bother. And their pricing kind of put me off buying, my latest M1 Carbine is a late Winchester for $1,400.00. I did cancel my "reservation" with the following message:

"Please cancel my requested notification regarding M1 Carbines. Was advised Midway will not ship to CA and have purchased elsewhere.

Midway's "will not ship" and stated reasons for this policy are not being well received in CA.

I should think a company so supportive of NRA would make a better effort.

Thank you,

DSF"

Their company, their rules. The same applies to customers and their $$$.

Overall I'm glad Midway got these in and some, one way or another, will get into CA. I hope new shooters will get to like them and get more involved in guns.

I noticed from Midway's pictures that none of the carbines had magazines. No doubt there will be a big demand for USGI mags. Like a poster said earlier, I used to buy them for $2 each at gun shows. Then they went up a buck. I should go through my stash and see how many I have to spare. Maybe for once in my life I could just possibly come out ahead on something gun-related.

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You're shy a few manners.

If this is true smiling Larry will never get another red cent out of me . M1 carbines are perfectly leagal to own and sell in California the 15 round mag is not . If he is to stupid to be able to remove the mag and just ship the rifle blank him . Maybe he can charge us a little more and not give us the mags that would be his style . I have bought lots of stuff from midway but n get again . We don’t need gun control from a gun parts suppler

Here's one small snipet about Marshall:
The long-dead hand of S.L.A. Marshall misleads historians

If you need more it's not hard to find, I won't do your work for you.

He's been widely discredited over the years. The DTIC library isn't exactly stone tablets from Mount Sinai.

I have no idea who you're talking about. Jim Cirillo was no fictional literary character in a book and I've never heard of Paul Kirschner.

Jim Cirillo was the real deal, serving with both the NYPD and US Customs and whom I had the pleasure to meet.
Jim Cirillo – Panteao Productions

Go to post 30 and 41

Cache of M1 Carbines from Italy at Midway USA - Calguns.net

"Dear Customer,

Thank you for signing up for information about the M1 Carbines. We are very sorry, but due to the onerous requirements for labelling, warnings and specialized safety devices the M1 Carbines will not be offered for sale in California.

We sincerely apologize for any inconvenience.

MidwayUSA Customer Service"

That internet myth about the Chinese quilted jackets stopping fmj carbine rounds is one of the dummest stories I've ever read. Years ago we were shooting an oak tree with a M1 carbine. That fmj round would penetrate complete through a much larger tree than I'd have ever suspected.

Too expensive for a gun I can't inspect beforehand, don't have the caliber in my cabinet, no mags either (naturally). So I'm out on this one. Unfortunately in my lifetime they've gone from "fun little rifle you can shoot surplus all day with for a Jackson" to safe queen with $1+/rnd ammo and mostly terrible aftermarket/foreign mags or pricey USGI originals.

I was all over the CMP 1911 deal. Like this, a bit over market but...already had lots of .45, lots of mags, and parts are ridiculously easy to come by.

Arguments to their usefulness as a serious defensive arm are a bit silly IMO. If it's the rifle you already have, well...sure, make do. But don't buy an M1 Carbine in 2021 solely as a defensive arm. "Collectible defensive arm" is also a silly concept. If the firefight is in 5 minutes, are you really grabbing an M1 Carbine?

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Psalm 27:2

Thanks, I've seen a number of criticisms of different officers from others who came later.

No question about Jim Cirillo being a real-life character; Kirchner was the author who wrote the Cirillo books for Paladin Press.

CMP is just another government hole to pound money. I bet they are going in the hole even at those crazy prices. The money will end up missing and tax payers will be on the hook again.

Did you miss the part where midway is selling these? They have nothing to do with the CMP.