Swiss Phoenix pistols...

I bought a couple of these recently and I'm extremely impressed. Phoenix was started a couple of years ago by the former owner of Sphinx. Their shop is in Interlaken, Switzerland.

They have four models currently, all of which are based on the CZ 75 design:

Fusion - Duty pistol
Redback - Competition pistol
Drake - Limited pistol
Raptor - Open gun

Unfortunately, the Drake and Raptor aren't approved for import yet, but I'll have a Drake as soon as they are. The Fusion is a new and improved Sphinx SDP, while the Redback is a new and improved Sphinx 3000.

The Fusion is available in a Compact, Tactical, or Standard. The Tactical is basically a Compact with some additions. The Standard is the full size gun. All Fusions are a combination of three materials. The slide is steel, the frame is aluminum, and the grip is polymer. Its also available in all black or with an FDE frame and grip. Mine is an all black Standard (ST) model.

The Redback is available in DA/SA or SAO. Its also available in all steel or a couple combinations of steel and aluminum. The Light has an aluminum grip. The Ultra Light has an aluminum grip and frame. They are also available in all silver, all black, or two tone. Mine is a silver, all steel, DA/SA pistol.

Build quality is second to none. I'm fortunate enough to own examples of all the high end pistols built over the past several decades and I would put the Redback right at or near the top of the list. Its certainly nicer than any other high end "production" or semi custom pistol I have in my collection. Even Sig Mastershop pistols and Smith & Wesson PC pistols can't match the quality of the Redback. I have Pardinis, high end CZ's, Alien Pistols, many high end 1911's, and a bunch of others to compare it to. They don't match this gun. That's how good it is.

The Fusion uses less expensive materials and has less machining, but the build quality and fitting is just as nice as the Redback.

I know Phoenix is relatively unknown. They are a small company that only produces a limited amount of guns per month and per year. However, I'm here to say that you won't find a nicer production/semi custom semi auto handgun produced today.

Does anyone else have hands on experience with these pistols?

Enjoy the pics...

Very nice. What kind of prices are we looking at?

Protocall_Design said:

Very nice. What kind of prices are we looking at?

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The Fusion is under $2000. The Redback is about $4000 give or take for an all steel model. The Light and Ultra Light are a little less. The Drake I'm hearing will be in the $5000 range.

Honestly, not too bad considering the quality, performance, and attention to detail. I feel they are a great value.

I followed Phoenix ever since they rose from the ashes and recently went to Interlaken to check out the latest production models. Also had the chance to check out (but not shoot) a Drake in .40S&W, but not in Interlaken, there was no Drake available there. Here's my take:

Good:

• Of all the CZ75 clones, these are the best, way above even the most expensive Tangfolio. Seriously. The all-steel Redback is beautiful, you don't even have to shoot it, just looking at it and handling it is a joy. Pride of ownership is a thing.
• The variable gas pedal design on the Drake is ugly, but great. On the Czechmate, TSO and now the TS2 you need to have a custom pedal made for you if you want it to perfectly match your hands. Nicely done Phoenix! As for the ugliness issue: This is a no-compromise race gun, so function over form!

Room for improvement:

• The DA pull (especially towards the end) still does not match the price. Shadow 2 and Shadow 2 Orange are clearly better.
• Longer barrel versions would be great.
• Why not innovate and differentiate yourself more from others? After the sad end of (Swiss) Sphinx, why do (almost) the same thing all over again and expect a different outcome? If you're a competitive shooter looking for CZ75 design guns, CZ and Tangfolio will give you all you need to win if you are the best. And if you're interested in getting an advantage from something new, you'll have to look elsewhere (Alien etc). So from the perspective of a competitive shooter, Phoenix doesn't really offer anything you cannot get from the established brands. Because of that, I'm not 100 percent sure Phoenix will succeed in the long run. Sadly, from the perspective of a collector, this could make them even more interesting.
• They need to put much more work into their website. Every product should be on it, every gun, every accessory. There are hundreds of websites and videos where people can learn about CZ and Tangfolio, but there are very few places where people can learn about Phoenix. Having an up-to-date, comprehensive website is paramount.

Having said all that, I'd like to repeat my first point. These are awesome guns worthy of a nice illuminated display case in any collection, and I sincerely hope Phoenix will be here for years to come. Producing such a nice high-end piece of mechanical art in a small shop at the foot of the Alps is deserving of respect.

bc1023 said:

The Fusion is under $2000. The Redback is about $4000 Drake I'm hearing will be in the $5000 range.

.... I feel they are a great value.

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These prices are purely fantastical. The marketing suggest that 'Swiss made' is the selling proposition here at a 100-300% premium and nothing these can do that a CZ Custom can't not do many times better I suspect. I do not expect to see one at the range or in competition (ever).

oysterer said:

... and nothing these can do that a CZ Custom can't not do many times better I suspect.

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Can you elaborate on that? What exactly can CZ guns do many times better? Thanks!

These are good looking pistols. By the pictures they appear to fill the hand nicely, I am sure the ergonomics are excellent. As with any new offering I am always concerned about the availability and cost of magazines and if they are proprietary.

Thanks for sharing.

oysterer said:

These prices are purely fantastical. The marketing suggest that 'Swiss made' is the selling proposition here at a 100-300% premium and nothing these can do that a CZ Custom can't not do many times better I suspect. I do not expect to see one at the range or in competition (ever).

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What a ridiculous post.

Do you even know ANYTHING about them? I have CZ’s top guns and a CZC A01-LD. The Phoenix is much nicer than any of them.

They are a small boutique shop. They aren’t trying to compete with CZ on high volume market share in the first place.

SPEEDGUNNER said:

These are good looking pistols. By the pictures they appear to fill the hand nicely, I am sure the ergonomics are excellent. As with any new offering I am always concerned about the availability and cost of magazines and if they are proprietary.

Thanks for sharing.

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Thanks

They use CZ mags

Mark8 said:

Can you elaborate on that? What exactly can CZ guns do many times better? Thanks!

Click to expand...

None

He’s just spouting off with zero clue about anything. Kind of funny

Mark8 said:

I followed Phoenix ever since they rose from the ashes and recently went to Interlaken to check out the latest production models. Also had the chance to check out (but not shoot) a Drake in .40S&W, but not in Interlaken, there was no Drake available there. Here's my take:

Good:

• Of all the CZ75 clones, these are the best, way above even the most expensive Tangfolio. Seriously. The all-steel Redback is beautiful, you don't even have to shoot it, just looking at it and handling it is a joy. Pride of ownership is a thing.
• The variable gas pedal design on the Drake is ugly, but great. On the Czechmate, TSO and now the TS2 you need to have a custom pedal made for you if you want it to perfectly match your hands. Nicely done Phoenix! As for the ugliness issue: This is a no-compromise race gun, so function over form!

Room for improvement:

• The DA pull (especially towards the end) still does not match the price. Shadow 2 and Shadow 2 Orange are clearly better.
• Longer barrel versions would be great.
• Why not innovate and differentiate yourself more from others? After the sad end of (Swiss) Sphinx, why do (almost) the same thing all over again and expect a different outcome? If you're a competitive shooter looking for CZ75 design guns, CZ and Tangfolio will give you all you need to win if you are the best. And if you're interested in getting an advantage from something new, you'll have to look elsewhere (Alien etc). So from the perspective of a competitive shooter, Phoenix doesn't really offer anything you cannot get from the established brands. Because of that, I'm not 100 percent sure Phoenix will succeed in the long run. Sadly, from the perspective of a collector, this could make them even more interesting.
• They need to put much more work into their website. Every product should be on it, every gun, every accessory. There are hundreds of websites and videos where people can learn about CZ and Tangfolio, but there are very few places where people can learn about Phoenix. Having an up-to-date, comprehensive website is paramount.

Having said all that, I'd like to repeat my first point. These are awesome guns worthy of a nice illuminated display case in any collection, and I sincerely hope Phoenix will be here for years to come. Producing such a nice high-end piece of mechanical art in a small shop at the foot of the Alps is deserving of respect.

Click to expand...

Great post and thank you for the insight from abroad.

I hope the Drake is available soon here in the states.

Yes their website is terrible

Update: Recently had the opportunity to check out a Redback (all stainless steel) OR made in 2021. They added milled recesses to the top and the right side of the chamber (looks good), and the optics plate is very nicely done. DA pull unfortunately hasn't improved. Grip panels on this particular gun had a very rough/aggressive surface, but obviously grips can be replaced, and of course there's always sanding paper if you don't like it.

At those prices will stay with a S&W. 99% of the higher priced handguns that I have seen shoot no better or accurately than a S&W or Colt for most people. However, if your tastes run to the higher priced spread then buy one.

AJ said:

At those prices will stay with a S&W. 99% of the higher priced handguns that I have seen shoot no better or accurately than a S&W or Colt for most people. However, if you tastes run to the higher priced spread then buy one.

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May I ask what higher priced handguns you have seen (or shot)?

Mark8 said:

May I ask what higher priced handguns you have seen (or shot)?

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Yes, you can. Sig P220, Walther OSP & GSP, numerous match grade custom centerfire guns, Colt Series 70 Gold Cup, Colt Mid Range Gold Cup, S&W Model 52, Korth and a few others.

The last high priced pistol that I shot was an Ed Brown custom .45 ACP. The owner had paid $3500 for it. I shot it and was not impressed. I let him shoot my Gold Cup and both he and I shot better with it, then his Ed Brown.

AJ said:

Yes, you can. Sig P220, Walther OSP & GSP, numerous match grade custom centerfire guns, Colt Series 70 Gold Cup, Colt Mid Range Gold Cup, S&W Model 52, Korth and a few others.

The last high priced pistol that I shot was an Ed Brown custom .45 ACP. The owner had paid $3500 for it. I shot it and was not impressed. I let him shoot my Gold Cup and both he and I shot better with it, then his Ed Brown.

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Thank you! I had an inkling high-end 1911s played a role in your assessment, I've come across a couple very expensive ones myself that did not exactly live up to expectations. I hope you'll get a chance to check out some of the newer high-end firearms such as the Phoenix pistols discussed in this thread, the latest from CZ, Pardini, Laugo, Korth, Janz, Walther and so on.

bc1023 said:

I hope the Drake is available soon here in the states.

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Update: The lastest (very current at the time of writing) info on the Drake is that the first (non pre-production/prototype) Drakes will hit Swiss dealers in September/October 2022. No info about what variant(s) they will be. Don't know anything about the US situation, but the other Phoenix guns were available in Switzerland long before they hit the US, so the Drake will probably not be available in the US for at least another couple of months.

It's pretty ironic that there are two firearms manufacturers called Phoenix, one of which is a bottom dollar Ring of Fire company out of Phoenix Arizona founded by George Jennings, while the other is a high end Swiss firearms manufacturer founded by former owners of Sphinx.

Forte Smitten Wesson said:

It's pretty ironic that there are two firearms manufacturers called Phoenix, one of which is a bottom dollar Ring of Fire company out of Phoenix Arizona founded by George Jennings, while the other is a high end Swiss firearms manufacturer founded by former owners of Sphinx.

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And wouldn't you believe it, at one of the few shops in Switzerland stocking Phoenix (Swiss) guns, these brand-new shiny and expensive high-end guns actually shared the shelves with an old beaten-up Phoenix Arms (Ontario, CA) HP22 pistol (really rare brand around here). The HP22 is still there, but it's been reserved so it appears to have found a new home and will probably be off to new adventures soon.

AJ said:

At those prices will stay with a S&W. 99% of the higher priced handguns that I have seen shoot no better or accurately than a S&W or Colt for most people. However, if your tastes run to the higher priced spread then buy one.

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Yeah, my experience has been a lot different.

Now, if you're talking Smiths like this, I agree...