Giles 45 Shop Colt 1911 Old School Custom

I didn't want to hijack the other Custom 1911 thread since it is geared for new production 1911's.

This is for old school .45's. Please post what you got.

This one is from Giles 45 Shop, Odessa FL. It is built on an early 70's Colt Government Model. Giles rib with wagon wheel rear sight with an extended front sight. Stippled front and rear grip frame. From what I have read, Mr Giles would add pins (corrected) inside the slide to assist with barrel lockup, anywhere from 1 to 3 welds. This one has one, on the left inside the slide. Lock up is still extremely tight after 50yrs. The slide is ball bearing smooth, and I really like the short trigger.

I loaded 200 gr LSWC over 3.5gr of Bullseye powder and it shot POA right off the bat. Super sweet and lots of fun.

I know it isn't holster friendly but it sure is sweet

Please post your old school .45's

Tim

Very nice Giles Extended Heavy Slide 45!!
Your load is exactly the right load for this particular model.

Do you have the original test target?
John had a 50 yd underground test tunnel under his shop where he would test each gun from a machine rest.
From what I've seen, he seems to have always fired a 5 shot group. 1.25" to 1.5" was the norm. Some were a bit less, some just a bit more. Usually, the four best shots would be 5/8" to 3/4" in one hole. Never saw one over 1.75" for 5 shots.
He always included the load data. Often, he would use a cast bullet handload.

I have never seen a Giles with the Colt collet style bushing. The ones I have seen had NM bushings. But, yours appears to be a later build, so maybe he tried new things?

What appears to be a weld inside the frame is actually a pin fitted to a drilled hole in the slide. If you look very carefully at the outside left of the slide, you will likely see the faintest evidence of this. Yes, John Giles was an incredible craftsman!

John also had a special technique for hardening the sear and hammer to help retain his finely adjusted trigger pull.
There are no aftermarket parts on his guns. He either fabricated new parts himself (like the sights) or he reworked Colt parts one way or another.

Attached are a few pages from one of his brochures.
One of the take-aways from the price list is that the cost of the work was a good bit more than the base cost of the gun. That is, using for example your .45, the cost of a complete gun was $280, while the cost of the work alone on a customer's gun was $165.

Glad you shoot yours!

Very nice, heard of him but do not recall ever seeing one.

Very nice!

My best target 45 is a 70 series Fred Kart with a Bo Mar tuner rib I bought from Kittery Sporting Goods before they knew what it was. I have 3 Kart guns.

State of the art, 1978.

Clark Custom Guns

This is a "Long Heavy Slide .45" built in August 1978 on a Colt Government Model.

824tsv said:

This is a "Long Heavy Slide .45" built in August 1978 on a Colt Government Model.

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That looks like new. What is your favorite load? I use 4.5 BE with an H&G 68 flat base 200gr.

When I was the armorer for the 1st Cav. Div. pistol team in 1959 we had a mixed bag of Giles, Clark, Chow and Dinan guns and when I shot on the 2nd Army team, same mix. I think the military AMU's ordered large quantities. My bullseye gun was built by Mike Curtis just as he left the Marine AMU to start his civilian career. The 50 yard test target measures 1 and 3/8 x 1 and 3/16th including a flyer out of the group. The 9 shot group is just at 1". The gun has one of the finest glass rod break triggers I have ever shot. I took the photo right after a match so it is covered in bullseye powder residue and is sopping wet.

Stu

4barrel said:

That looks like new. What is your favorite load? I use 4.5 BE with an H&G 68 flat base 200gr.

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I found this one about 5 yrs ago. You don't see these (or any other Bullseye pistols for that matter) very often up here. I don't shoot this one a lot, but I've found that 4.2g of Winchester WST under a 200g (.452) LSWC works pretty well.

Did Mike Curtis purchase the gunsmithing part of the estate of Richard Shockey?

tt66, that’s a treasure. As is all the other bullseye 1911 pistols on display here. Very nice
Finding one in nice shape is hard. In the grand scheme of things there were not a lot made. Most that I have seen have been used pretty hard. Most are still very accurate though.

Here is another bad photo but I don't know who did it. All the parts have #s and have the original 70 series parts other than the barrel bushing but the bushing has the same # as the other parts. I think someone took a new gun and worked it over. The Stippling is nice so I think a pro job.

This is a Custom 1911 built in 1960 by Thelbert Almond for C.P.O. Don Hamilton who was Camp Perry National Champion in 66, 67 and 69. Don had the highest score ever shot 2668/2700 which I understand still stands today. Also shown is the 22 Conversion also custom built by Thelbert using a Colt Ace Conversion. The gun still shoots unbelievably accurate.

4barrel said:

That looks like new. What is your favorite load? I use 4.5 BE with an H&G 68 flat base 200gr.

Click to expand...

Try 3.2-3.6 BE. I was turned on to the lighter loads by an old time Bullseye shooter. With the 200gr SWC (I use coated most of the time). I favor the 3.2 load, but you may need to bump it a little depending on spring weight. Super fun to shoot and just as accurate as the hotter loads

4barrel said:

Here is another bad photo but I don't know who did it. All the parts have #s and have the original 70 series parts other than the barrel bushing. The Stippling is nice so I think a pro job.

Click to expand...

Is that a Jim Clark gun? He used a distinctive stippling. I think he called it “Sharktooth,” or something like that. A friend had one of his guns that he ordered and was not aware of the Sharktooth thing. He didn’t like it and wanted to sell the gun. I shot it and loved the gun, but didn’t have the money to buy it. I think even back then he had $1200 in the gun and accuracy work. The special type of stippling was not the most attractive thing I’d ever seen, but it sure worked.

6string said:

Very nice Giles Extended Heavy Slide 45!!
Your load is exactly the right load for this particular model.

Do you have the original test target?
John had a 50 yd underground test tunnel under his shop where he would test each gun from a machine rest.
From what I've seen, he seems to have always fired a 5 shot group. 1.25" to 1.5" was the norm. Some were a bit less, some just a bit more. Usually, the four best shots would be 5/8" to 3/4" in one hole. Never saw one over 1.75" for 5 shots.
He always included the load data. Often, he would use a cast bullet handload.

I have never seen a Giles with the Colt collet style bushing. The ones have have seen had NM bushings. But, yours appears to be a later build, so maybe he tried new things?

What appears to be a weld inside the frame is actually a pin fitted to a drilled hole in the slide. If you look very carefully at the outside left of the slide, you will likely see the faintest evidence of this. Yes, John Giles was an incredible craftsman!

John also had a special technique for hardening the sear and hammer to help retain his finely adjusted trigger pull.
There are no aftermarket parts on his guns. He either fabricated new parts himself (like the sights) or he reworked Colt parts one way or another.

Attached are a few pages from one of his brochures.
One of the take-aways from the price list is that the cost of the work was a good bit more than the base cost of the gun. That is, using for example your .45, the cost of a complete gun was $280, while the cost of the work alone on a customer's gun was $165.

Glad you shoot yours!

Click to expand...

John Giles was a special man, a tool and die maker by trade who worked for the US Navy.

His shop in Odessa had a 50 yard cinder block tunnel from which he ransom rest tested his builds. His standard of accuracy was set to 1 3/8” at 50 yards. Sometimes guns would shoot to under an inch. He built Colt made 1911s, those were ball and WC guns and converted 38S to Special. High Standard and his slab sided BE pistol was thought to be the fore-runner of the Victor and he loved Ruger Mk 1s.

His trade mark and only identifying mark was his sights both front and rear. The rear sight saw three variations mainly upgrading the design to reduce machining and to make them more sturdy. His first design had screw threads that would make a Jewler cringe. Off course his rib and extended rib were the first of their kind and copied by others but not as good.


Collet bushings?? Uh uh! I have many many dozen in my bin that came from him. (I don’t know what to do with them either.) He hand fitted the barrel to the slide and the slide to the frame via jig. He hand fitted each barrel bushing and SCRAPPED the collets. He put two weld points in the slide to ensure side to side lockup and relied on the link and lugs for the vertical.

Each gun was delivered with his brochure and his signed test target.

His sears had a carbide strip welded at the contact surface making it crisp yet giving it somewhat of a roll as is now favored by Brian Zins with guns built by K C Crawford. He turned his own screws and all pins, and link were oversized and milled to the pistol. He had as many as six machinists in the shop. He oversaw everything.

He built guns for Perry competitors, most notably National Champion Joe Benner, they became good friends. He used an H&G molds and used 3.5 - 3.8 BE for either a 185 gr or 200 gr cast bullets. There were 25yd and 50 yard loads. Ammo was loaded by Jack Maszk. Giles Benner and Maszk were an unbeatable trio.

Eddietruett,
I would enjoy seeing some more pic's of the .22 Conversion Unit if possible.

Jim Clark Bullseye gun

I have one of Jim Clark's Bullseye guns that has that shark tooth stippling. It still is sharp, too!

Eddietruett said:

Try 3.2-3.6 BE. I was turned on to the lighter loads by an old time Bullseye shooter. With the 200gr SWC (I use coated most of the time). I favor the 3.2 load, but you may need to bump it a little depending on spring weight. Super fun to shoot and just as accurate as the hotter loads

Click to expand...

Thanks but I have one that shoots that load.