BB57 I feel bad for the OP all he wanted was feedback from actual owners good or bad which he was getting.But as usual when the positive out weighed the negative the trolling starts.Then they pull the victim card and say they are just responding to the OP’s question.No other brand that I know of has to be subjected to this constant type of behavior.I’m not a fan of Smith & Wesson 1911 but I’m sure not going to jump on every thread and knock the gun and parrot things I heard on line.According to a poll taken at the Kimber forum from actual owners only 8% of new guns had to be sent back to get corrected, which is in line with what Kimber states. But other forums which I can’t name here , the same polls with the trolling shows a better than 60% issue .So we are to assume that all of these disattisfied customers did not send their guns back to Kimber to be fixed for free but chose a local smith to work on them.when the two tone custom came out a while back a lot of younger guys bought them because of the affordable price point and soon after confessed to trolling the brand because it was fun.Basic common sense would point out that Kimber who sells more guns then all the others combined for top dollar, wouldn’t happen if what was said about them was true.In 24 yeas I have only seen one used Kimber at any gun shop in over 5 states. I guess so many people just threw out the gun they hated.LOL
I spent a lot of years in program evaluation, as a subject matter expert with extensive field experience.
One of the pitfalls people fall into is believing flawed data and/or not understanding the limitations of the data and/or totally ignoring the big picture and what the data might not be showing you. Data is like a Bikini. What it shows you is interesting but what it doesn’t is often more interesting.
As you’ve pointed out, if Kimber made a low quality product like it is often claimed to do:
- they still wouldn’t be around;
- they would not be selling at the prices they are selling for; and
- used Kimbers would be everywhere at bargain basement prices.
Other pitfalls in evaluation of anything are sampling bias and confirmation bias where you are only sampling or seeing one small segment of the big picture and or where you are only accepting information that confirms your bias or preferred outcome, and are rejecting any and all evidence that suggests your preferred world view or opinion may be wrong. There is *a lot* of that going on in America right now.
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I’m just fine with people who have owned a Kimber having and presenting a complaint - as long as they fully explain it and include the full context. That helps everyone fully understand the issue and subsequently be able to make a fully informed decision, based on actual observation, experience, logic, and how well it fits with their particular use or philosophy.
When someone is willing to do that, they are also willing to learn and often change their point of view. It’s the folks who refuse to give complete information or consider a full range of facts who are most afraid their point of view may be wrong, and who are o most resistant to learning and change.
For example, I’ve encountered new Kimber owners on public ranges who have problems and are unhappy with their new pistol. I’ll start a discussion with them and get them talking about the issues they are having and what transpired before hand. That’s when they say things like:
1. “I upgraded it with an extra power recoil spring”
2. “I installed a shock buffer”
3. “I bought better aftermarket magazines for it”
4. “I’ve only shot 50 rounds through it but I’ve had three mis feeds”
5. “I just bought it and took it straight to the range”.
What I also hear behind those sentences are:
1. “I meant well, but I screwed with the engineering, slide velocity and timing of the pistol’s operating cycle”
2. “I thought I was protecting the pistol, but I reduced the slide over run, and reduced the time available for the next round to feed from the magazine”
3. I might not understand how 1911 magazines work, and I may have hobbled it with a parallel lip magazine designed for short semi wadcutter but I am shooting RN FMJ.”
4. “I don’t understand the tight frame to slide tolerances or that it’s not even close to being broken in”.
5. “I don’t understand it has been sitting in a box for weeks, months or possibly even years, and I don’t understand that 1911s need to be run wet and really need to be properly lubricated before I take it out and shoot it.”
It’s that first list of statements that explain the malfunctions, but unless the new user understands the second list of statements - the “Why” that underlies those malfunctions, they’ll just blame the pistol and Kimber.
My role then becomes one of linking the first list to the second list and imparting the new user with the knowledge and understanding of the bigger picture that they need to have to get optimum results from a Kimber 1911, and most 1911s in general.
The same thing happens on the internet, it’s just too often a one way drive by delivery of a complaint happening days weeks or months after the negative experience and long after the poster has adopted an entrenched point of view that Kimber makes poor functioning pistols. It’s hard to change someone’s mind once they’ve formed a strong opinion and pointing out why their point of view might be flawed usually just causes them to dig in deeper.
In that regard I have no illusions about changing negative opinions here. But I do want to provide full information and balance the drive by shooters, so that the OP and other people considering a Kimber can make a fully informed decision.
- If you are not willing to put 200-500 rounds through a Kimber to break it in (steel frame target models like the Gold Match will probably need the full 500, while an aluminum frame Ultra Carry will probably get there in 200), a Kimber probably shouldn’t be your first choice.
- If you really want an adult Lego set and your main pleasure is “upgrading” with lots of aftermarket parts, rather than shooting, you’ll be far better served starting with a full size, lose tolerance 1911 like a 5” RIA that will be far more tolerant of “upgrading”.
- If you really believe all pistols should be run dry and visible oil on the slide and frame rails just attracts dirt, a Kimber 1911 just isn’t for you.
on some customers, if that’s what you said. He was never one to hold back.
