Colt Pocket Hammerless (model M) 1903/08 recoil springs

teletech

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I notice the Browning-designed pistol is virtually identical in .32ACP and .380ACP, with the barrel being the only part that *has* to be changed. In theory the ejector and magazine are different and even the early .32 frames are supposedly too narrow but most seem to work for .380 just fine.
The other part that is the same is the recoil spring. This seems just wrong, after all the .32 has a lot less power than the .380.
I notice that with .380, the slide really does impact the frame pretty hard and that has negative consequences for the firearm and shooter alike. One can reload .380 for reduced energy, but that seems to result in reduced accuracy as well in my experience.
One would think that wolf or someone would offer a spring assortment for this very popular gun.
Has anybody tried alternative springs or know of a source?
 
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I started typing out a rather (what I considered to be) lengthy explanation , but decided to see if I could find a more succinct answer online. Found this in an old thread discussing just this subject over on the Colt Forum penned by a member known as "1903joe"; not shorter but explains it pretty well and probably better than I could have, so . . . .



"Yes, the 32 and 380 auto springs are interchangeable.

There are different appearances in the springs over the years the 1903 was produced, as they were originally shipped from the factory, but I'm not sure if the differences are aligned with the generally recognized distinctions made by the five "Types" collectors recognize. (I know Brunner has some discussion of springs in his book; I think he discusses the numbers of coils in different recoil-springs from different time periods, but I'd have to look at the book again to refresh my memory on exactly what he says.)

Generally, with a straight blow-back pistol, like the 1903, one has significant flexibility with recoil-spring strength. The spring can be more properly described as a "slide return spring" than a "recoil" spring. It is the friction from the expanding cartridge case (exerted against the chamber walls), caused by the extreme pressures generated from the burning powder, which is keeping the barrel as a "closed tube" when the gun is fired. Only after the bullet has left the barrel, and chamber pressure starts to drop, does the spent shell casing really start to move and begin its push against the mass of the slide and resistance of the spring to start the process of cycling the action.

If the recoil-spring is too strong, the slide will not move with enough velocity for proper extraction of the spent shell casing (it's a "flicking" motion between the extractor and the ejector). If the spring was so extremely strong, it might not even move the slide all the way to the rear so the next round could be stripped from the magazine.

If the recoil-spring is too weak, the slide will move with such velocity, it will stress the gun as it reaches its maximum rear-point and stops with a "pounding" to the frame. An extremely weak spring may not have enough strength to strip the next round from the magazine and chamber it properly.

Between the two extremes of very weak to very strong, there is a lot of flexibility with recoil-spring "weight." One of the best ways to determine if the recoil-spring strength is proper for a particular pistol is to evaluate how the spent shell casings are extracted. With a strong shooter firing it (no limp-wristing) simply watch how far the spent shell casings are tossed. If they are hardly tossed any distance, but more-or-less tumble to the ground, the spring may be too strong; if they're tossed out 20 feet away from the shooter, it may be too weak.

If the spent shell casings are being thrown 5-10 feet away from the shooter, the gun is feeding and extracting reliably, and the spring looks to be in good condition (no kinks, bends, rust-pits, etc. in it) I wouldn't worry about what the specific "weight" for it is."


This explains it pretty well, though I'm sure some could chime in with a different opinion, though it would have to be backed but by hard data before I would change my opinion on the subject. What seems 'right' to us sometimes goes against we feel does or doesn't make sense. The physics, engineering, and design for the reliable operation of semi-auto and full auto actions is a study unto itself and the less successful attempts often hinge on a razor's edge of applying the math to practical application.
 
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While yes, it is true that there is a large range of spring "weights' that will allow the gun to run reliably, that's only part of the utility of the spring.
Having a spring that is on the "light" side will allow the slide to impact the frame with a lot of velocity. This stresses the gun and also produces a harsh recoil the is injurious to the shooter and also to recovery time. It is a poor .380 that has a recoil impulse like that of .32ACP. Yes, the increased surface area of the case may help reduce slide velocity, but I'm still not at all happy with the felt recoil impulse of the gun in .380.
I'd have thought that since these were once very common carry guns that there would be an easy way to find a stouter spring, but I'm guessing between the minute sights and harsh recoil feel they were guns that got carried a great deal and shot rather infrequently and have now largely been relegated to collections. One of the minor issues with the gun is it's very easy to kink the spring during dis/assembly, so long ago I'd made a full-length guide rod. It made assembly a breeze and the additional mass low and forward didn't hurt my feelings any. A search of readily available springs wasn't really getting me anywhere for a full-length replacement, but I did have a .6" long spring with the same ID but about 10% heavier wire, so figuring this was a replacement spring of no particular value anyway, I cut the recoil spring off enough that both springs would allow the slide to fully open when they were both fully compressed and stuck them both in there.
The results have been really very satisfactory. It's much milder to shoot and I haven't noticed any reduction in reliability, in fact I suspect the lower velocity at the end of travel provides a longer dwell time which should improve reliability by allowing the next cartridge extra time to rise. Whatever it is, I can report that in hundreds of rounds it works very well and the gun is a lot more pleasant to shoot with this 2-stage spring setup.
 

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All parts are interchangeable for both the 1903 and 1908 with the sole difference being the barrel. Because the .32 ACP is semi-rimmed, and the .380 rimless, the magazines work just fine for both calibers..


Whether this makes sense to you isn't the, point it did to JMB, and the guns work just fine.
 
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IIRC the same is true for the Beretta 81/82 in 7.65x17 (32 ACP) and the 83/84/85 pistols in 9x17 (380 ACP). I shot a Beretta 84 once and hated the recoil impulse and muzzle flip. When I read that the recoil springs were the same as the .32 variants, it explained a lot.
 
All parts are interchangeable for both the 1903 and 1908 with the sole difference being the barrel. Because the .32 ACP is semi-rimmed, and the .380 rimless, the magazines work just fine for both calibers..


Whether this makes sense to you isn't the, point it did to JMB, and the guns work just fine.

Not all parts are the same, at least according to S&K and other magazine makers. They do in fact have different part numbers for the .32 and .380 magazines and they have different witness holes and capacities. In practice, I've never noticed a difference in capacity.

Just reporting something that worked well for me, The gun did NOT work just fine for me before and does now.
Almost nobody builds 1911s the way JMB drew them and those that do are doing it for historical interest or novelty. Sure, they function properly for the most part, but the modified ones work better for most people. The A1 variant addressed some issues and now we see flared ejection ports, bevertails, extended safeties, slide stops, and a wide assortment of recoil springs and guides.
 
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My FN 1910 goes between calibers with no problem with the same magazine and spring. Like the first poster said, the real factor in this case is slide weight, the spring just buffers the shock and returns the slide. And my 1910 has fired everything from powder puff cast 32 loads equivalent to 32 S&W to Buffalo Bore’s 100 grain HCFN, all with the same spring and no failures.
 
Just to state, my 1903 and 1908’s are pretty early examples, so about 100 years old now (give or take). They have what I’d say are their original springs that still work perfectly. I have always been enamored by these Colts and not only are they great looking pistols, they have never had a single malfunction or FTF in the 40+ years I’ve owned them. Add to that the really nice triggers and accuracy, these thin Colts are over looked many times!
 
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