Walther PPK/S - Buy Smith & Wesson Built?

I've owned a S&W PPK/S since 2016 and it has never once failed me. I actually put it through a rather extensive test once in which I was actively trying to make it fail, but it only hiccuped once when I attempted to chamber a round which had a substantial amount of bullet setback, ergo it was therefore completely out of spec and was unlikely to feed in any gun.

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I carried this beauty from 2016 to 2019 when I replaced it with a Ruger LCP, but as you can tell by the series of pics I took of it throughout the years, it still holds a special place in my heart.
Sure, the LCP is smaller, lighter, chambered in the same cartridge, and only holds one less round in the magazine, but it's obviously nowhere near as aesthetically pleasing, and nowhere near as accurate either.

Purists will call Smith & Wesson blasphemous for daring in their hubris to think themselves capable of improving upon the design, but obviously they did, and Walther themselves approved of the changes because they were carried over to the latest iteration of the PPK(/S) produced by Walther.

Smith & Wesson improved on the feed ramp which was previously a two piece design which had trouble feeding modern Jacketed Hollow Point ammunition by making it into one continuous slope. In addition, they extended the beavertail in order to prevent the infamous "Walther Bite" from slicing open the hands of shooters as the original design was known to do because of it's stubby and frankly inadequate beavertail.
Once again, the purists will tell you that it wasn't a problem and accuse anyone who has suffered from slide bite while shooting a PP Series pistol of using an "improper grip" then proceed to "educate" you on the "proper" method of gripping the gun which is awkward, unintuitive, and strangely has never appeared in any instruction manual or official documentation for the gun.

Once again, Walther themselves has adopted the changes that Smith & Wesson made to the PPK(/S) which can be easily verified by checking out their website...

PPK/s | Stainless – www.waltherarms.com
It looks familiar, doesn't it?

Well…not quite.

In 2013 Carl Walther discontinued its arrangement with S&W and started selling its own firearms in the USA,

Since 2013, Carl Walther has handled the marketing, distribution, sales, and servicing of its firearms in the USA through the newly-formed Walther Arms Inc., a subsidiary of the PW Group of Arnsberg, Germany. PW owns both CARL WALTHER GmbH Sportwaffen and Umarex. Walther Arms Inc began production in Fort Smith AR in 2018.

I would not read too much into the fact they are making them on former S&W tooling, and would not say it reflects acceptance of the S&W version as being a “superior” design.

Having owned Walther, Manurhin, Ranger and S&W examples, I can say based on my experience with them that the S&W isn’t superior anywhere other than apparently on paper.
 
380 data from Lyman's 49th.
I have a Master Chrony but have not used it for anything but airguns and arrows.

380s and the 460s will be the first. :D
P238s vs S&Walthers.
 

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Here is what I know. There was a recall on S&W made models within a certain range. I inherited one of the Lew Horton laser engraved models that fell within the range. I called Walther in Arkansas or somewhere nearby. They sent me a USPS shipping ticket. I sent it off without any magazine in it. It came back in 10 days, fixed and with a new finger extension magazine :D.

I then gave it to # 2 son who wanted a James Bond gun:eek:
 
380 data from Lyman's 49th.
I have a Master Chrony but have not used it for anything but airguns and arrows.

380s and the 460s will be the first. :D
P238s vs S&Walthers.

I chronographed a lot of .380 ACP with 90 gr XTP and 9mm loads with 115 gr XTP loads.

Both bullets have the same published expansion floor starting at 800 fps.

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In actual practice both the 90 gr XTP and 115 gr XTP need close to 1000 fps to reliably expand.

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I can get just under 1000 fps with the 115 gr XTP with a max load in the 9mm Luger 2.9” Kimber Micro 9. I get about 975 fps with the 90 gr XTP in the .380 ACP 2.75” Kimber Micro.

Any slower with the 90 gr XTP and expansion becomes very inconsistent, with poor expansion and only about 60% expanding at all at 900 fps. Much below 900 fps the 90 gr XTP just doesn’t expand at all.

The 115 gr XTP performance is nearly identical with a minimum velocity threshold for reliable expansion right around 1000 fps.

The 115 gr hollow point, and in particular the 115 XTP just doesn’t have sufficient velocity to expand at .380 ACP velocities. You might as well be shooting 115 gr flat points.
 
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I have one of the new production PPK's in .380

It works fine, and Walther USA does have great customer service.

It's not a carry piece or a night table gun. But I always wanted one and didn't feel like paying top $$ for a pre-68 in the box with all the goodies.

JMHO YMMV
 
Well…not quite.

In 2013 Carl Walther discontinued its arrangement with S&W and started selling its own firearms in the USA,

Since 2013, Carl Walther has handled the marketing, distribution, sales, and servicing of its firearms in the USA through the newly-formed Walther Arms Inc., a subsidiary of the PW Group of Arnsberg, Germany. PW owns both CARL WALTHER GmbH Sportwaffen and Umarex. Walther Arms Inc began production in Fort Smith AR in 2018.

I would not read too much into the fact they are making them on former S&W tooling, and would not say it reflects acceptance of the S&W version as being a “superior” design.

Having owned Walther, Manurhin, Ranger and S&W examples, I can say based on my experience with them that the S&W isn’t superior anywhere other than apparently on paper.

Yet here it is on the official German website as well...

PPK/S 3,3" (2851989) | Carl Walther GmbH

Strange that they should have a product page for an item which has made unapproved modifications to their design.

One would think that if Walther didn't approve of these modifications, much less believed them to be of an inferior design, then certainly they wouldn't sell them domestically, especially when they were made by a foreign firearms manufacturer.
 
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Yet here it is on the official German website as well...

PPK/S 3,3" (2851989) | Carl Walther GmbH

Strange that they should have a product page for an item which has made unapproved modifications to their design.

One would think that if Walther didn't approve of these modifications, much less believed them to be of an inferior design, then certainly they wouldn't sell them domestically, especially when they were made by a foreign firearms manufacturer.

Clearly, they were “approved” as Carl Walther gave them the license to make and distribute them in the US.

However, once again for the slow kids in the class, that’s not the same as saying those approved changes are truly regarded as improvements over the original. It’s a question of whether it’s worth entirely retooling to revert back to the original given the high lack of parts commonality with the non S&W PP series pistols.

And again, owning all of them, I clearly feel the S&W changes were not improvements on the design.

——


To put it in terms you might better understand, old school Walther PP series fan look on the S&W version just like old school S&W revolver fans look on the new S&W revolvers with locks and two piece barrels.

Those changes were clearly “approved” but that doesn’t make them a good thing.
 
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Ive had both German built and S&W built, both non stainless and stainless. In German I have had both .32 and .380, they both ran like Swiss watches, never a hiccup and had solid steel frames all the way around the grip frame. I got the Smith in a trade and was excited to get a PPK in .380 that was stainless. First off you should know by now that they are heavy, which makes them inherently more accurate than the usual light framed .380 semi auto. The sights work very well, they all would be able to be used as bug out guns and put rabbits on the table. I like .380 and believe in them as valuable back up pistols. The first thing that turned me off on the Smith was the incomplete steel grip frame housing, it does not wrap completely around the frame, its open at the rear. I wanted to use a particular grip stock and that was not an option with the open back frame. Never had a hiccup concerning firing, fired flawlessly all three. I showed it to a friend that offered a trade on a very nice 1.75" model 15-3 and I took the trade, with some added boot...those Walthers are expensive.
 
I also don’t know about the Smith made examples. Have only heard stories.

I do have both the PPK and PP from the 1960s, in .380 and those are flawless.
 
Having owned two different PPK/S pistols in years past, both Walthers, one blued, one stainless, I still miss them, but never want one again. Neither would feed HP ammo reliably. Both cut the web of my hand between my thumb and forefinger more than once. I'm sticking with my 3rd gen Smiths and Sigs for more power, shootability, and comfort.
 
You couldn't give me a S&W PPK/S. Well, you could but I would immediately sell it or hold a boat in place with it at the end of a line. The one I was exposed to was an abomination.
 
Ive had both German built and S&W built, both non stainless and stainless. In German I have had both .32 and .380, they both ran like Swiss watches, never a hiccup and had solid steel frames all the way around the grip frame. I got the Smith in a trade and was excited to get a PPK in .380 that was stainless. First off you should know by now that they are heavy, which makes them inherently more accurate than the usual light framed .380 semi auto. The sights work very well, they all would be able to be used as bug out guns and put rabbits on the table. I like .380 and believe in them as valuable back up pistols. The first thing that turned me off on the Smith was the incomplete steel grip frame housing, it does not wrap completely around the frame, its open at the rear. I wanted to use a particular grip stock and that was not an option with the open back frame. Never had a hiccup concerning firing, fired flawlessly all three. I showed it to a friend that offered a trade on a very nice 1.75" model 15-3 and I took the trade, with some added boot...those Walthers are expensive.

FYI: What you're describing isn't a difference between Walther (German) and Smith & Wesson (American) PPKs, but a difference between the PPK and PPK/S Models in general.

The PPK/S has the larger frame of the full-size Walther PP with the main spring encapsulated within a steel backstrap, whereas the PPK has a smaller frame with an exposed main spring covered by a wraparound grip.
This is because the PPK/S is actually a hybrid design which combines the slide/barrel of the PPK with the frame of the PP, designed as a means to meet the requirements of the Gun Control Act of 1968, which imposes a points system upon imported firearms based on certain specs/features, and the PPK came up short.
Of course, American Made firearms are bound by no such restrictions, so the PPK can be produced domestically, whereas German PPKs cannot be imported. But why do they still make the PPK/S if PPKs are now produced domestically, you ask? Because ultimately the PPK/S proved to be quite popular on the American market as an alternative to the PPK with a fuller grip and slightly higher ammo capacity.
 
A bit late to the party.

My S&W PPKS has been very reliable and has not malfunctioned on me since I acquired it over 8 years ago. I have cycled a lot of various manufacturer's ball and Hornaday Critical Defense It is a recall gun that I haven't managed to send in for the "fix". I need to do that.
 
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A PPKs in .380 is not a fun gun to shoot.

Depends on the shooter and how much shooting he does. I had three PPK/Ss (orginals not American) at one time and shot them regularly. I think they were more pleasant to shoot than J-frame .38s that I also fired regularly. Got rid of the Walthers, only because of the cartridge, not the guns, but still shoot the J-frames.
 
The new PPK/s is made in Arkansas and is significantly modified with a better beavertail and and few other items. Main thing is they are much better than Interarms Smith/Walther, plus they have service available.
 
Well, since this has come back up again.....
I own 5 of the PP Series pistols. 2 Walthers, 1 Interarms/Ranger, One Walther/Umarex .22 and the one S&W mentioned earlier.
Honestly, I bought the S&W for three reasons.
1. I'm a S&W guy.
2. Mine is in the scarce .32acp caliber.
3. The price was right.

Mine has been an excellent little gun. No issues what-so-ever with my .32
But honestly, I doubt I'd buy another. Lots of reported problems with the .380s. I absolutely hate the extended beavertail. It digs into my side if I try to carry it. Among Walther fans, the S&Ws are considered at the very bottom of desirability and resale value sucks. :(

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