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Old 10-18-2023, 04:20 PM
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Jeroenw114 Jeroenw114 is offline
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Default 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.

This Summary I have posted in 2020 on a Dutch forum. I thought an Englisch version would be a good idea. I made this summary out of my own interest and I hope you like it. English is not my first language and I am sure you will notice.

The 45ACP cartridge and the guns made in this caliber always attracted me. Odd guns, prototypes and dream guns of special individuals also appeal to me thus a combination is double interesting.
I am a sport shooter and I like target guns. Some years ago while googling I stumbled upon a special target gun, the GEORGE WILSON MATCH. Unfortunately that was never taken in production and only three of them exist. But it triggered me to search for more special pistols.

I have owned a number of guns in 45ACP. Of course the Colt 1911 (80 series), S&W 625, Colt Officer’s 45ACP, H&K P9S, Uberti 1873 Flattop 45LC/45ACP, S&W 845 and the one I still have is a
S&W 4516. The S&W pistols are my only two 45 pistols that actually worked the best.

The 1911 is one of the most appealing and successful guns ever. But we all know that one. I made my summary of guns we do not all know.
It ranges from so rare that you probably can’t buy or afford it to so bad that you most probably would not want to own it.
Should I have forgotten one that lies within this range, let me know. I will not explain each pistol in detail. Sometimes I will give some details, sometimes a link to start your own investigation. But google is willingly.

I made one side step, a list of attempts from Colt to put a second successful pistol on the market. Strangely they never succeeded and to my opinion they also do not used ‘their’ 1911 design to full potential, not at all. As they did not with the 1873 platform and I believe all their products.

But I start with the 1907 Army Trial Pistols. This summary is about pistols only so I leave revolvers out.
We all know the outcome of these trials.

The pistols from the 1907 Army Pistol Trials:



The US Army was in need of a modern gun to replace the 1873 revolvers. They asked manufacturers to send in their contesters. One mandatory demand, it must be in the caliber 45ACP. A caliber designed in 1904 by John Mozes Browning.

Savage Model 1907

The Savage in 45ACP is outside the 200 trial guns never put in production.
another chapter of beetle's guns and history - the "almost" 1911 - Calguns.net

Luger in 45ACP

Also a nice gun that never went in production.
But there are still small companies that build the Luger in 45ACP.
Martz in the past. Lugerman and Waffen Werle present. Strong prizes!
In fact all copies of the 45ACP version which Georg Luger in 1907 personally delivered for the trials. There were made two or three and of those only one survived.

Knoble

Patented in 1902 and submitted for the test in a SA/DA and a SA variant. Together with the luger the only two pistols with a toggle-locked system made in 45ACP. Interesting and beautifully made.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P4reVVYIR8
They also made some in .30.

White Merrill 1907

Special design with a capacity of 10 cartridges and a cocking handle under the trigger guard. But no success.

Bergmann

The German designer Bergmann–Bayard also designed a 45ACP variant of his 9mm Bergmann pistol. Outside the trial guns no more where made.

White Merrill 1911

In 1911 they made a new variant to test and got permission to submit it even though the tests had been done a long time ago but they never did.

Colt 1907

The winner, the Colt 1907. First the Colt 1907 and the Savage 1907 were left. From both the army ordered 200 for further tests. Colt altered the model with the passing of test years (Modell 1909 and 1910) and Savage tried it with political games. In 1911 there was the definitive test, with both pistols they shot 6000 times. The Savage had only 37 malfunctions, the Colt zero. In the target results and field strip tests the Colt also won.
So Colt won.
http://www.nramuseum.org/media/94045...l%20trials.pdf

The Colt 1911 naturally went to be a great success. But despite several affords Colt never had a successful successor for military use. It seems to me they were blindly designing without looking to what’s out there to compare or defeat.

The failed projects of Colt. And no, not all in 45ACP

Colt SSP (Stainless Steel Pistol)

Presented in 1971. With SA/DA action, double row magazine and in 9mm this should become Colt’s new success. Submitted two times for trails but in 1984 Beretta won. The SSP did not went into production and only 50 were made handcrafted. Most of those were given to high military people to influence the outcome of the trials. Therefore these can be found in the collectors market.
I think it’s an attractive pistol and maybe if they did produce it would have been a success.
The Colt patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US3682040A/en
Blued version: https://i.postimg.cc/TPWgRSM0/Colt_model_SSP_blued.jpg
Early prototype: https://i.postimg.cc/v8v9HfjJ/Vroeg-prototype-01.jpg
Left & Right
https://i.postimg.cc/tC62qZyM/Colt-model-SSP.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/SstYbsHQ/Colt-model-SSP-2a.jpg
On youtube www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVhSQwlVW4I

Colt Offensive Handgun

Presented in 1991. Submitted for trails when the US government searched for a pistol for the ‘United States Special Operations Command’. Colt lost from the Heckler & Koch's Mark 23 this time.
Colt did not put it into production. Looks like a further development of the SSP but then made looking less good.
https://i.postimg.cc/YCwGHTDF/Colt-O...l-45-ACP-2.jpg

Colt Law Enforcement Pistol

This looks like an attempt to enter the market of polymer framed pistols. Submitted to different services but it did not worked out.
About 10 were made and they entered the collectors market.
https://i.postimg.cc/JhrsyZL4/Colt-L...rototype-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/RqxFvndm/Colt-L...rototype-6.jpg

Colt Double Eagle

This one was put in production, made between 1990 and 1997. Again an attempt to bring a DA/SA pistol on the market. The trigger mechanism and other details were clearly adopted from the Colt Offensive Handgun
The Double Eagle was not a bid success. (And I understand, it’s again not the prettiest.)
https://i.postimg.cc/FKT70zrb/Colt-double-eagle-2.jpg

Colt All American Model 2000

And again an attempt to enter the market of police and military arms that did not work out. A striker fire DAO pistol with rotating barrel locking meninism. Presented in 1990 in a version with aluminum frame and a version with polymer frame. In 1993 a recall was necessary because of safety reasons. Complaints about its accuracy and reliability did not help. In 1994 production stopped. The aluminum framed ones are now pricy collectables.
The design was outsourced to Knight and Stoner (K&S)
Their design was different to the production version but they were not consulted for the process of changing their design to what would be the production version. In their patent you can see how they thought about it. https://patents.google.com/patent/US5050480A/en
And these are prototypes:
https://i.postimg.cc/wBB409Nv/Colt-A...an-proto-1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/d0SHfgR9/Colt-A...an-proto-2.jpg
A lot is written that because Colt changed the original K&S design without consulting they changed in to what was doomed to fail. Colt for instance sized up from a more compact pistol to a normal size pistol. But looking at the K&S design I do understand. A new pistol, also intended for law enforcement, should be presented as a full size at first.
Were K&S not given the right design wishes or did K&S not deliver the right design?
Colt’s pre-production prototype:
https://i.postimg.cc/xjc6ZpZY/Colt-P...el-2000-02.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/zvgvmknp/Colt-P...el-2000-01.jpg

Colt Z40

And yet another attempt. This time help from CZ was asked. CZ delivered a pistol to Colt in .40S&W and 9mm with some 1911 looks. (they finally got it). But after about 800 pieces the collaboration was ended by Colt. CZ changed the design a little and continued production quite a while. The compact Rami still is in production or has been discontinued just recently (I do not see it on the sight anymore, 13-10-2023)
A special detail is that CZ is the current owner of Colt.

Colt Double Action Government

Made from 2011 to 2013. Total production of the 5” (01991DA) about 300 and of the 3,5” (07810DA) about 100 pieces. Both with an aluminum frame.
Despite looking like a 1911 and being a Colt these pistols are no true 1911’s. But again are a failure. The idea was not bad. For DAO pistols is a market. And there will be people wanting a 1911 like Colt. But the was already so much competition from very good double row lightweight pistols that these two newcomers would have little change. Reading tests these pistols performed well but had a heavy trigger pull. Again, I think that is deliberately to prevent accidently fire but mas made too heavy to make it a fine pistol. But with these production numbers it hardly can be called a honest attempt?
Now these are collectables.

*********************************

Remarkable items from the past

SHANSEI C96 MAUSER

45ACP version of the famous C96.”Broomhandle”
China produced them in 45ACP because the Hongkong police also used the Thomson machinegun.
A few thousand were made between 1928 and 1931 and a late series for export was made in 1980. Sometimes these can be found for sale.

Grant Hammond

This pistol was presented as a military trial pistol but not in the 1907 trials but in 1917-1918. Mr. Hammond thought it was a good replacement for the 1911. It was tested but found not good enough. A total of 18 items were made. An attractive and technical interesting design. The shape does resemble a bit the AMT Auto Mag. Maybe the AMT designer Harry Sanford was inspired by the Grant Hammond?
https://i.postimg.cc/J4j5wf5w/Grant_Hammond_2.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Vq-rfm5Rs&app=desktop

Walther MP

A prototype in 45ACP from Walther. Walther was busy with the development of the “Armee Pistole” The AP in 9mm lead to the well-known P38.
The 9mm AP: https://i.postimg.cc/50pDmHj3/Walther_AP.jpg
De MP is a scaled up AP. What if they continued this development?

BSA

BSA is long known for air rifles and pistols. But in WW1 they were also producing military arms. After the war they searched for new products to make and also developed a 45ACP pistol. Made with a rotating barrel locking system. There is no factory paperwork left and there is nothing written about these pistols. So there is little known other than it never made to production.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FA2nRg4T2PI&t=362s

PIEPER

The German Nicholas Pieper also wanted to try to get his design into the American military market. He presented his prototype in 1911 but was soon told his model would not be tested because there was no true locking meganism and to much screws, flat springs and in general to weak to test.
www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=l7E_2GGJIi4

Mauser Modell 1912/14 in "45ACP

Mauser made a number of 45ACP prototype’s. From the 1912/14 about 150 pieces in 9mm and a handful in 45 were made. This one sold on an auction for $63.000 in 2016.

OBREGON

Build in the thirties in Mexico. About 1000 pieces were made. Clearly based on the 1911 but with a rotating bolt locking meninism.
https://www.gunsandammo.com/editoria...an-1911/248586

Lewis

Isaac Newton Lewis is known for his Lewis gun, a machine gun.
Based on this technique he also designed a pistol. This was also the first double stack 45ACP pistol. The magazine held 15 rounds. Later Lewis designed another version which locked action, this one also was not a success.
Locked action version; https://i.postimg.cc/Kv53Dx5Y/Lewis_vergrendeling.jpg

Remarkable items from lesser distant past. (Ceased production, failed projects and prototypes)

Colt 1911 Double action prototype

This is an experimental double action Colt of which is little known. Most probably from the 50’s.
More info: www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEj8r63SpEI
I hope someone was smart enough not to produce this because of the looks and high grip. Why did Colt not simply look at the Browning Highpower for the technique?

ODI Viking Combat

Omega Defensive Industries (ODI) designed a pistol with the longer known Seecamp DA trigger action. Seecamp was longer known for his conversions of 1911 pistols to a DA-SA system. Ludwig Seecamp designed for his own use but patented it (US7698845B2)
https://patents.google.com/patent/US7698845B2/en
Remarkable is that the original SA trigger stays in place. An interesting article about the man can be found here: https://americanhandgunner.com/handg...double-action/ I see many still very interesting ideas here.
He performed conversions between 1973 and 1979 after which he sold his patent to ODI for a production SA/DA 1911 pistol. ODI build pistols from 1981 to 1982. About 300 pistols were made after which they went bankrupt. Essex Arms bought up the remains and did build another 300 pistols.
Company flyer: https://i.postimg.cc/Yq16FThs/ODI-Seecamp-5.jpg


Korriphila HSP 701

Quite rare and guaranteed expensive. Very high quality with roller locking system. (or better Rol locked system, only one roll). The designer is Edgar Budischowsky. Production was in Germany from 1984. Designed in 45ACP but also made in 9mm, 38 super and 7.65.
When production stopped is unclear to me but I read somewhere recently. Edgar Budischowsky is from 1940 and still lives.
In 1990 a 10mm variant was introduced with the name “Budischowsky PP-10 Minigun”
This one was sold in 2022 for about $22.000.
https://i.postimg.cc/W4zZ4Cg1/Korriphila_HSP_701_01.jpg
Hier veel informatie: https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/...phila-hsp-701/

Korth Classic 45ACP

The Korth pistols from Willy Korth are like the ones of Budischowsky, attractive, very high quality and equally rare and pricy. Unfortunately not made in 45ACP but there were made three prototypes, engraved luxuriously finished.
https://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/ob...lassic-45-acp/
I also found very little info about an earlier Korth pistol in but in 9mm. Clearly a prototype but this design does appeal to me. If anynone can share more info: it's very welcome.

I just seem not be able to find anything more and not even this picture again. If anyone knows more please let me know.

AJ Ordnance Thomas 45

From this little pistol 600 were made 1974. It was not an success. They were attractive but not reliable and safe and that was the reason no more than 600 were made.
Prototype: https://i.postimg.cc/prTQK3Mr/AJ-Ord...-prototype.jpg

Walther P38 45ACP

Martz was an Amerikan gunsmith. From 2 P38 frames he would make one 45ACP frame.
The are built in different barre lengths and finishes. In particular the babies are sought after and they are nice to see, in my opinion,
https://maven.io/forgottenweapons/ha...j0-WYUUOZUwS4A
https://i.postimg.cc/yNmMkpH2/Walther_P38_45ACP.jpg

GEORGE WILSON MATCH

The reason I made this summary. I would not call this project a failure but unfortunately it did not went into production. Since seeing this pistol, build for sport shooting, I sought further for pistols in 45ACP build solely for sport shooting. (and then I mean target shooting, not dynamic disciplines)
I think only the Pardini GT45 and GRP are considered. GRP? Yes, see later on in the summary.
And the Revol Arms DL 45 but that one never came further than prototype.
Verry well-made match pistol designed and build by George Wilson, designer at High Standard. Build in 1959 by himself and successfully used to win the RA tournament. How cool is that! The locking mechanism with a wedge was most probably taken over from the Walther P38.
2 other prototypes are made and sold later on. George Wilson tried to get this pistol in production at Two more pistols were made. I find it a very attractive pistol.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=bEzUMfQ0BXQ
https://i.postimg.cc/QN9qm9Bd/George_Wilson_Match_1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Y25zsrgf/GEORGE_WILSON_Match_2.jpg
Patent: https://patents.google.com/patent/US...n?oq=US2975680

Revol Arms DL45

An attempt to resurrect the idea of George Wilson and put it into a new jacket. The designer was Dan (Daniel) Love, a known gun engraver and it seemed he teamed up with a Justin Jorden.
I once found screenshots of an earlier design of them with wooden grips. If they produced that one including conversion kit to 9mm and / or 38 special I would have been a customer! In stead they went on with a polymer grip and double stack magazine. Two characteristics that do not fit a true match pistol.
I have had contact trough their website in 2018 and heard that a series of 50 pieces were made that verry moment. After 2021 the website disappeared and I recently tried to contact Mr. Love and Justin but no I have had no reaction. No idea what happened but I think we will never see this pistol in production. Or is there here someone brave enough to take this project on?
https://i.postimg.cc/vHWy26cf/revolarms2.jpg
http://www.revolarms.com/ (Long gone, but with web archive sites you can find some)
Patents:
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2014123628A2
https://patents.google.com/patent/WO2014123628A3

Bren Ten met 45ACP conversion

The well-known Bren-Ten is chambered in 10mm. But there were also .45ACP conversion units. Brief history: The Bren_Ten is based on the CZ75. Developed around 1980 for the then new 10mm round. Jeff Couper was one of the forces behind this project and the developer of the 10mm round.
He first called this round the .40 Super but later renamed it to 10mm.
The first Bren Tens were delivered without magazines. The wish that magazines could hold 45ACP and 10mm rounds did not work. These magazine problems and some other technical problems were the cause for this company to fall a few years later. Production was from 1983 till 1986. Two later attempts, in 1990 by Peregrine Industries and around 2008 by Vltor Fortis both end premature. Both did not came any further than introducing prototypes. In 2020 Elite Warrior Armament tried and failed.
I don’t think someone will ever try again.
The original Bren-Tens made by Dornaus & Dixon Enterprises Inc. from 1983 to 1986 are now wanted collectable guns, ‘unfired’ the costs about $4000.
There is a nice website http://nordicg3k.tripod.com/website/id6.html

Sokolovsky Automaster

Designed by Paul Sokolovsky from California in the eighties. Besides of the rear sight the pistol is completely free of screws, pins and knobs. Left of the trigger is a safety “trigger” and right of the trigger is the magazine catch “trigger”. I doubt this can be called safe. It is Striker fired!
Selling price from 1984 to 1990 was $5000. Total production about 45-50 pieces.
https://i.postimg.cc/jjybydzg/Sokolo...omaster__2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Kv4hJ5Pg/Sokolo...tomaster_4.jpg
Here clearly with a extended 1911 magazine. https://i.postimg.cc/cCx0xytD/Sokolo...tomaster_5.jpg
Poster: https://i.postimg.cc/X7D4bPj8/Sokolo...tomaster_3.jpg

Delta AR Top Gun

Made in the midst of the nineties. The name suggests that it is US made but it is from Italian design and production. There are probably about 200 made in 45 and 9mm.
Based on the CZ model 52. Roller locking system. The trigger is adjustable in its action and position. A true sport pistol.
https://i.postimg.cc/6qvLpgsv/Delta_top_gun_3.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/QtVJRV0S/Delta-top-gun-2.jpg

Victory Arms MC5

This British brand was totally new for me. Never heard of before and I don’t think I will ever see a pistol of them. Production started in 1987 but was swiftly transferred to Magnum research, USA.
About 200 are made before the design was sold to Magnum Research. It is unclear to me whether or not they used the design. What I read was that all the production that was made is sold in the UK but with the 1997 gun ban most will be destroyed leaving just seven left. Not the most prettiest but also nod Ugley. A quick caliber swap!
https://www.vintageguncatalogs.com/p...oducts_id=2054
https://i.postimg.cc/7ht8qCk6/Victor...MC-5_short.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=MBeorjPUm2I

H&K P7M7

P7 pistols in 9mm are very popular and fetch high prices. A 45ACP version never came, only a prototype run of 6 pieces. The company’s board never gave green light for the 45.
https://i.postimg.cc/43x69mkZ/HK_p7m7_2.jpg
www.youtube.com/watch?v=fUUotDJffjU&t=299s

Mossberg CAC 45.1 Combat

Not verry handsome but some interesting alterations to the 1911 theme. And rare since production did not exceed the 150.
https://i.postimg.cc/5tDX20fs/Mossberg_CAC_45_1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/BnV6m6PJ/Mossbe...at_model-0.jpg
https://www.forgottenweapons.com/mossbergs-combat-45/

U.S. Arms & Munitions Company Model HP

A handsome prototype looking ready for production. Complete with company etc. But more than this solely example cannot be found. This example is sold for $1700 on an auction. The shape of the slide does suggests that the recoil spring is around the barrel.
https://i.postimg.cc/MTDJrP31/U.S._A...el_HP_45_2.jpg

Desert Industries "War Eagle”

Steel City arms made small Walther like pistols in. dd. The "Double Deuce".
They made a Walther like pistol in stainless steel.
They also presented a scaled up version called larger “War Eagle” in 45ACP. In 1990 the name changed to Desert industries inc. Much more I can’t find. It seems these 45 pistols were never actually made.
https://i.postimg.cc/CLtTtf7r/War_Eagle_2.jpg

Sterling 450
Sterling Arms Corporation existed from 1967 till 1984 and in that time they made .22 copies of the High Standard pistol and some strange variants of that pistol. They also made a .380ACP pistol that can be found for sale. But the Sterling 450, a 45ACP version is only to be found in adds. Does anyone have an actual picture of one? There is a picture of a catalog and a poster.

The poster with the 450 on it: https://i.postimg.cc/zGCQkB7F/Sterling-poster.jpg
Their 380 model that was sold: https://i.postimg.cc/c482rT8j/Sterling-380.jpg
More about the company: https://www.billstclair.com/weaponsm...html%3Fp=12351

Parker

The Wyoming Arms Parker is based on the 1911 and was short lived. End of the eighties, start of the nineties.
Not very handsome and pour quality led to a short existence. The choice of calibers was not the problem, 38 Special , 9mm, .40 S&W, 10mm, .45 ACP and 357 Magnum. And three barrel lengths, 3 3/8, 5” and 7” long slide.
https://i.postimg.cc/0yFkpBhQ/Parker_01.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/Wpw1QSqW/Parker_2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/x85jMTSD/parker_357.jpg
Design and production rights were taken over by Laseraim.
http://nordicg3k.tripod.com/website/id59.html

Laseraim SS

Where Parker left of was where Laseraim continued. Including the poor quality and therefore Laseraim was also short lived. The looks where not improved either. But once again a company came to take over and there was the The Automag II and III.
Automag is known fort the big 44AMP pistols. (Dirty Harry) But we also know them from the 1911-ish pistols in .22 magnum (Automag II) and the .30M1 Automag III and 9mm Winchester Magnum.
The resemblance with the Parker is stronger than with the Laseram which is good. There might be a other explanation why Automag took over, I once read that Parker and Harry Sanford (Automag) were related.
The Automag .30M1 www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGF3NmRB-h0

Automag
The famous Auto Mag 180 in 44AMP was also at least once made in 45ACP and therefore welcome in this summary.

Such 45 I would love to add to my little stable. Why do they always don’t produce the prettiest and most desirable?

Hoque Avenger

When this conversion slide entered the market I did not pay a lot of attention based on the looks. I did not like it. And now little is to be found about it.
Delayed blowback with fixed barrel, truly designed as a sports pistol.
A story as many, someone (in this case a Peter Spielberger) designs something different, searches for a company who wants to produce it and after a while the plug is pulled and the story over.
How many are sold, I don’t know.
https://www.m1911.org/hogueavenger.htm
https://i.postimg.cc/G2ZGVKBh/Hogue_Avenger_01.jpg

Arminex Trifire

Field strip: https://i.postimg.cc/tgPwpGQX/arminex-trifire-03.jpg
Once again a pistol coming from the desire of a man (James Mongello) to make a better pistol than is offered on that moment. And like most times they do not succeed and the experiment fails.
The original prototype, named Excaliber, had a rotating barrel locking system. This was made in 1979.

Field strip: https://i.postimg.cc/qRTY7D42/armine...xcalibur-2.jpg
Because of high production cost of the rotating barel locking system James decided to go for a more tried and tested system of the 1911. The trifire has no grip safety and no frame mounted safety bud slide mounted S&W style safety. An advantage of the Trifire should be a fast and easy swap to another caliber. The calibers were 45 ACP, .38 Super, and 9 mm.
There are no more than 250 Trifires made. Why there were not build more is not exactly known. My personal believe is that when the Excaliber prototype was worked out to production it had a better change. Another 1911 style pistol was nothing new.
Pictures and more info: https://www.americanrifleman.org/con...ee-in-one-gun/

Ross Rudd

No picture of an actual gun is to be found but at least one exists. Otherwise we could not see it on this old youtube film.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=7lAxVYYhACM
A system of delayed bold action, a system Mr. Rudd had a patent for. https://patents.google.com/patent/US3998126A/en
A fixed barrel with the recoil spring around it. Seems like a fine pistol that could have made it to production but due to finance problems production never started.
More info here: "Ross Rudd's Singular Pistol" by John Malloy
Gun Digest, 1994 Annual.
https://i.postimg.cc/y80yN1dr/Ross-Rudd-P1.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MGD0y917/Ross-Rudd-P2.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/MGxbMCfZ/Ross-Rudd-P3.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/d1V2nG9z/Ross-Rudd-P4.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/W3YMytWt/Ross-Rudd-P5.jpg

Stamped M1911

It is called 1911 but I do not see why. Sheet metal pistol should be more adequate. The Guide Lamp Division of General Motors made the Liberator pistol and they probably thought it would be a good idea to make a sheet metal semi-automatic pistol. Being much more heavier than a standard 1911 this led not to production.
Source: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2...ed-steel-1911/

*********************************

Regular but discontinued production

STAR Firestar and Megastar
Firestar


Megastar

From Star I only knew the 1911 copies and the SA/DA Firestar in 9mm and 45.
But there was a bigger version, the Megastar. Also a SA/DA pistol, quite bulky but not bad looking.
https://i.postimg.cc/XYRWZyyB/Star_Megastar.jpg

But Star also made this little pistol, the STAR PD.

A 6-round pistol with aluminum frame. Made from 1975 to 1990. These were not the best pistols. Jeff Cooper wrote about these “carry much and shoot little”. Both the alloy frame and a plastic impact buffer are not capable taking very much impact.

H&K P9S

This is a strange SA/DA pistol with internal hammer and slide release that also serves as cock / de-cock lever.
These pictures are from my own archive. I had a 45ACP with 9mm conversion slide. I bought this without ever having held one. Don’t do that. The grip is too large for me. And lot of jams in both calibers, reloaded and bought ammo. Even with all new springs and the buffer. (I did experiment with other recoil springs). They are beautifully made, very special but shooting was not what I expected. Strange is also how they work. The slide release is also used to cock the hammer and is the de-cocker. First press the lever up, then pull the trigger. Not the safest system, an error is made easily.
The first version, P9 without the S did not had this cocking system, has a SA trigger system and is recognized by a rounder trigger guard. The S stands for “Spannabzug”
The slide is pressed and hardened sheet metal with milled steel inserts. The frame is also from sheet metal. The sight and trigger guard are plastic. It’s a roller delayed blowback system. Longer barrels with weights and sport grips were available is special sporting sets.
I will continue to like this pistol I just don’t want one anymore.


The P9

9MM with factory sport grip: https://i.postimg.cc/JhwTDBkQ/H-K-9mm-target.jpg
More info https://www.pewpewtactical.com/what-happened-hk-p9-p9s/

Llama Omni

This Spanish pistol was made from 1980 till 1986. The 1911 copies of Llama are seem more often, this model seems more rare. Based on this YouTube film I do like it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=21tmdJKRPrU

Asai one pro (Advanced Small Arms Industries)

The name suggests it is an Asian pistol but in fact it is Swiss. Based on the CZ75, high quality
The company dates to 1994. Around 2000 a small number is imported to the USA by Magnum research. In Europa I can’t find any for sale.
The company still exists. http://www.asai-ag.ch/Joomla/index.php/de/
http://www.specialgunshop.com/catalo...ro45-prosp.pdf
http://www.specialgunshop.com/catalog/onepro9-prosp.pdf
Also in gold….not for me.

A lot of gold versions: https://asai-aurum.ch/asai-aurum/

Ruger P90

Not verry rare and in the US not unknown. But in Europe the 45ACP version is rare and unknown.
Under appreciated? The P85 in 9mm came in 1985, the P90 in 45ACP in 1990. Ruger wished to score a military contract with the P85 but that did not happen. It did not stop Ruger from producing this pistol. A nice alternative?
https://i.postimg.cc/fyDTVSpf/Ruger_P90_2.jpg

Boberg Arms XR45-S Pistol

Small compact 45ACP pistols are not rare but are seldom usable for more than self-defense. The Boberg is different although still not a sporting pistol. But with the compact size it still is a 3,75 long barrel. The chamber is above the magazine giving it a 1” longer barrel. To bad it is a DA only, I would love one with a crisp SA trigger. I don’t think there is room for a good SA trigger in this little fellow.
Rounds are first pulled back and then lifted and inserted tot he chamber. A bit like a shotgun. “reverse feed technology”


Designed as 9mm, the 45ACP is in all directions a bit father.

The 9mm was also available in a slightly longer 4.2inch “sport” version.
https://i.postimg.cc/RhNfWfwn/Boberg-9mm-42.jpg
The founder and designer Arne Boberg sold his design to Bond Arms. Probably a smart move for him but with that a nice designed and finished pistol was lost. Bond produces only the short 9mm “BullPup9” with a 3.35” loop.
When you like a true Boberg, they do not come cheap. The barrel length of 3.75” makes it legal to own in the Netherlands. Others would be surprised when I would turn up on matches using the Boberg XR45-S but that will only happen in my dreams.
A little longer barrel for the Canadian market: https://i.postimg.cc/43Phww59/Boberg-XR45-5.jpg
The Bond Arms continuation: https://i.postimg.cc/9MXyjsMb/Boberg-9mm.jpg
Links:
https://justinkbrady.com/notes/arne-boberg/
www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJkG3g-4-UU
https://i.postimg.cc/VsVn3Gc9/BOBERG-XR45-drawing.png
https://i.postimg.cc/V67ns408/Boberg-XR45-4.jpg

Astra A-75/80/90/100

From the Spanisch Astra-Unceta y Cia SA factory came SIG 220 style pistols. The series included:
A-75 made 1994-1998 in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP. https://i.postimg.cc/J0jhL7C3/Astra-A-75-01.jpg
A-80 made from 1982-1989 in 9mm, 7.65, 9mm Largo, .38 Super and .45 ACP https://i.postimg.cc/gJXJgqMT/Astra-A-80-01.jpg
A-90 made from 1986-1990 in 9mm and 45ACP https://i.postimg.cc/Pxgq9p9r/Astra-A-90.jpg
A-100 made from 1990-1997 in 9mm, 40S&W and 45ACP.
They were not very successful and wished government contracts stayed out. In 1999 bankruptcy followed.

IMI SP-21 Barak

I think this is one of the ugliest pistols of the list.
It’s a Israeli pistol made from 2002 and unclear till when it was made. Also in 9mm and 40S&W. It was developed to replace the older Jericho but the Jericho is still in production and the Barak seems to be discontinued.
Field strip: https://i.postimg.cc/gctsXYRc/IMI-SP-21-Barak-2.jpg

Mauser M2

An interesting pistol. It wears the name Mauser but is in fact made by SIGARMS in the USA. Unlike most Sig pistols it has a rotating barrel and is a striker-fire. Made from 2000 til 2004.
The first were made in Germany but soon production was moved to the US with parts imported from Germany. Clearly “Made in Germany” should boost sells and therefore “Frame made in Germany” was stamped on the aluminium frame.
The M2 was advertised as being "The safest handgun on the market today" as it had 6 safety’s including a manual safety at the back of the frame. https://i.postimg.cc/QxWQFchS/Mauser-M2-2.jpg
It was not very succesfull and therefore only 4 years in production. Made in 40S&W, 45ACP and a few were made in 357 SIG.

Republic Arms Patriot

Later called Cobra Patriot .45 ACP in stead of Patrot, a handsome little 45 pistol. Striker fired, polymer frame, 6-round magazine. Not much exiting more to tell. You would think. Interesting is that the Stainless slide runs directly in the polymer rails, No metal inserts. Maybe good enough for defense but I would not use this as a fun shooter.
https://i.postimg.cc/fR8mFCKz/Republic-Arms-45acp-2.jpg
Cobra Firearms stopped to exist in 2020.

Feg GKK-45

FEG is a Hungarian company. Before WW2 an important arms manufacturer but after the war made mainly copies or produced parts for other companies. Since 2010 after a re-investment the company makes more moderm arms now.
Often revered to a 45ACP high-power it is in fact more a copy of the S&W pistols with the S&W 3-gen mechanism and safety.Even the alu grip insert was used. https://i.postimg.cc/FsR9px7g/FEG-GKK-45-02.jpg
It does have High-power looks and FEG did produce a High-power copy so the comparisment is made easily. Unclear what the exact production years were but around 1990-2000. There was a 9mm short version too. https://i.postimg.cc/bwSqcN0Z/FEG-GKK-45-03.jpg


From Argentina came the pistols “Sistema 1927”and the Ballester Molina. The Systema 1927 was made from 1927 till 1960 but is in fact a 1911 made with tools provided by Colt and made by Fabricaciones Militares Sociedad del Estado
The Ballester Molina was made by Hispano Argentina Fábrica de Automóviles SA. The Ballester Molina was made as a cheaper alternative and is not a 1911 copy but in fact only the barrel and magazine are interchangeable. These pistols were made from 1938 til 1953.


*********************************

Still in production

Cilinder and Slide Pocket Model

A combination between a Colt 1903 pocket (32ACP) and the 1911. Nice niche but does cost you $4000,-
https://i.postimg.cc/9fLB8ytr/Cylind...istol-2008.jpg
https://cylinder-slide.com/Item/CSP901

Pardini GT45

Not rare, still for sale. But quite unique. Designed by a sport shooter and intended for sport shooting. Not based on an existing pistol with military or police origin. Made in 45ACP, .40S&W and 9mm. The grip angle is a bit larger and the bore axis very low. The trigger is fully adjustable and can be set very crisp. (but it takes some effort and time) Between this original summary in Dutch and translation I have owned a used 9mm Pardini PC9 and that was a disappointment. But that most probably was bad luck.

Geiger GRP201

A new design based on existing techniques. Except for a few details, a nice pistol. The details that I do not like are the too long dust cover and the small, cheapest model LPA sight. But being a pistol made to order for a lot of money I take these details can be taken care of. I would suggest a Aristocrat Tri-set on this pistol. The price is about $5000,- For me it would be to heavy.
http://bh-waffenhandel.de/angebot/ne...chluss-pistole
https://www.cgte.de/GRP---1.html

High-Point JHP

Not a verry nice pistol but with a price around $200 verry affordable. Polymere frame and blowback! Action.

Korth PRS

A Roller locking system in a (big) 1911 jacket. The slide looks oversize to me. I have never seen one in real but based on what I see a well-made, good working pistol that I just do not desire. I miss the class and looks of the Korth quality of the past is this. But that Is only my opinion.
https://kortharms.com/de/pistolen.html
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wA_2NxFuWM0

Beretta 8045 “cougar”

The Cougar in 9mm I knew. Personally I like the Coogar over the 92, I do not like the cut open slide.
I did not know wit also existed in 45ACP. A nice pistol. And a Compact version of the 45 also exists. Still for sale in the US under the name Stoeger Cougar 8000. It has a rotating barrel lock-up system.
Compact version: https://i.postimg.cc/0NYCvpCk/Beretta-8045-compact.jpg
Beretta Stoeger: https://i.postimg.cc/kX2FGryh/Beretta-Stoeger.jpg
Nice Beretta website: http://berettaweb.com/8000/8000.htm

Sarsilmaz K2 45

This pistol looks like it was build on the CZ platform with an older Tanfoglio style hammer and SIG looks.
Quite unknown but still in production. www.sarsilmaz.com and sarusa.com
SAR makes more interesting pistols and even a revolver but all are copies with borrowed details.

S&W 4516

Of course not in production, not rare, well known but mine, so I like to use it to close off.
The 4516 is a compact version of the 4506 and made as SA/DA pistol with plastic grip. Like I mentioned at the start, I like target pistols, I like wood over plastic and I like SA trigger mechanism so I changed my 4516 to my ideas of a compact target pistol. A Bo-Mar sight would perfect it but for now this LPA SPR is a good middle solution. Grips and aluminum insert are from a 745 and shortened, trigger and hammer are from a model 52 and the DA mode is blocked.

Last edited by Jeroenw114; 01-01-2024 at 01:23 PM.
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  #2  
Old 10-18-2023, 04:41 PM
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Excellent list, but the lack of the Heckler & Koch Mk23 Mod 0 and USP45 makes it feel incomplete to me.

The Glamorous Guns Thread.-h-k_usp45_elite-jpg
This is the H&K USP45 Elite, the Target Version of the pistol. They're semi-rare since they're only produced in limited numbers, and imported in even fewer numbers, so they only come into the United States in batches every so often.
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Old 10-18-2023, 04:44 PM
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Great write up!

I have owned 6 of the pistols shown, Colt Government, (not shown Colt Gold Cup) still have both, Colt All American-gone, CZ40B still have, Laser Aim-gone, AMT III-gone but not forgotten and a Ruger P90-gone,but not far, gave to SIL.

All American and Laser Aim were garbage. Gold Cup best shooter by far.

Worst 45 I ever had was a Llama government clone-severe jam-o-matic.
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Old 10-18-2023, 04:44 PM
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Sarsilmaz K2 45 and the Mauser M2 don't appear on the list. No Glocks or XDs because they are too common?
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Old 10-18-2023, 04:54 PM
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Terrific post.

How long did that take to put together?
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Old 10-18-2023, 05:16 PM
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A lot of time. But fun time.
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Old 10-18-2023, 06:00 PM
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Republic Arms 45acp missing.
showed up later as Cobra i think.
Low priced gun,
Great work!
Larry
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Old 10-18-2023, 06:01 PM
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Amazing post! Thanks
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Old 10-18-2023, 06:01 PM
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Thanks , very interesting. Saw a few new to me models.
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Old 10-18-2023, 06:06 PM
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Thank you so very much for the article. It is much
appreciated.

Here's my outlier for what it's worth.

I have a Star PD I bought in 1979. It was my first
45 ACP pistol. One of the reasons I got it was South
Africa was under a firearms embargo and one of the
pistols they had access to was the PD. A friend had
a couple and I got one. The only down side was having
to modify regular 1911 magazines to fit it. It's one
of the carry it a lot and shoot it a little guns.

Again, thank you for your article.
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Old 10-18-2023, 06:24 PM
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Excellent and informative post. Thank you!

Bryan
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Old 10-18-2023, 06:57 PM
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Regarding the Colts…the Colt offensive pistol prototype was never intended for production but was a design exercise the company placed into consideration.

The Colt SSP was overall a good pistol…it should have been further developed for production. I’ve only physically seen two…one in the Smithsonian collection and one in the hands of a collector at the annual Colt convention a couple of weeks ago.

I actually handled one of the Colt law enforcement prototypes back in the early ‘90s. I regularly attended and competed at the annual Secret Service matches in MD before they were discontinued. It was heavily attended by industry related companies looking to make law enforcement contacts and potential sales contracts. Colt was in attendance with one of those pistols. The grip had been carved upon changing its shape and wrapped in tape. I was given the chance to handle it…saw it be fired but didn’t get to shoot it myself. For some reason Colt decided not to pursue the design.

The Double Eagle…good pistol…reliable and accurate. But it was as heavy as a 1911 when much of the market was heading to polymer and aluminum. It also suffered from poor aesthetics. It was viewed as an Sig wannabe which was unfair but it still failed. I owned three…standard full-size model…an Officers ACP and an Officers ACP Lightweight. Eventually I sold them all.

The Colt 2000…a series of unforced errors. The original design was purchased from Reed Knight and Eugene Stoner. Colt decided to make unnecessary changes at the behest of their lawyers and certain potential law enforcement agencies and the trigger pull weight was doubled from six to twelve pounds. Another unforced error was an early batch of pistols with out of spec barrels were shipped out…thus it received poor reviews in the gun press. The gun deserved better…it’s one of the most comfortable of guns one ever held.

The Colt Z40…meh! I owned one for years. I sold it to someone who wanted it more than me…and offered me stupid money for it.
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Old 10-18-2023, 07:02 PM
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Jeroenw114 Great post - will need to review much more. Guess I hoped to see the Para series, especially my favorite, the P-13. Was my carry gun (heavy but reliable). Have switched to the S&W M&P 9C at 87 due to age and recoil.
Again, Thank You
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Old 10-18-2023, 07:09 PM
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Terrific post! Thanks!
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Old 10-18-2023, 08:21 PM
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Thank you for your post - I saw several pistols I have never seen before.
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Old 10-18-2023, 08:52 PM
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Thank you for writing and posting your article! Excellent work. I will come back to it for further study. I saw a lot of guns I've never known about. It's interesting to see the variability and creativity pistol designers had over the years. By comparison, I'd say revolvers are much less diverse.
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Old 10-18-2023, 10:46 PM
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Liberator!

Great read, very interesting.
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Old 10-18-2023, 11:22 PM
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Thanks for a wonderful enlightening post........MODS should make this a sticky.........Lots of good information.
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Old 10-18-2023, 11:29 PM
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What a great post! I wish I had something meaningful to add but I am definitely a student on this thread. A valuable resource for all. Thanks Jeroen!
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Old 10-18-2023, 11:38 PM
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I've only been reading this forum for 5 years or so, but I pretty much read it daily. This is one, if not the most interesting articles I have read. Kudos.
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Old 10-19-2023, 04:05 PM
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Agree, excellent post and fantastic English also!

One pistol that I was almost certain to see but did not see was the Semmerling! Also, while not a semiautomatic -- still interesting was the COP 4-barrel derringer.

Looking forward to more of your work! I've got a bunch of .45 pistols and love nearly all of them... favorite is my S&W Performance Center 845 Limited Model of 1998. For a much less known, very low buck gun that shoots and looks way outside of it's pay grade, the Feg GKK-45!
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Old 10-19-2023, 04:34 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Holy smoke, that was great! Never heard of most of these, very interesting and thanks for the effort you put forth.
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Old 10-19-2023, 04:47 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Great post! I thought I had some familiarity with 45ACP pistols but clearly I had/have a lot to learn. Many, perhaps most, of those shown I've never seen. Thanks much!

Jeff
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Old 10-19-2023, 05:17 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Thanks for all the kind words!
I made it with pleasure and all I wished is that others read it with pleasure.
And indeed, some may miss a certain gun.
Remember my intention was to highlight the pistols the majority of have not seen or heard of before.
But I see some good suggestions!
Soon I will re-read all reactions and add the ones I think deserve it.

Jeroen
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Old 10-19-2023, 07:56 PM
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Very nice rendition of history. Though it is an absolute "clone" the Norinco imitation of the classic Colt 45 in the A1 variant is effectively indestructible and is a prime example of what metallurgy in the early 1970s could do without any form of modern machine working. Dave_N
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Old 10-19-2023, 09:44 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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I learned something today! I like the overbuilt German designs. Having owned a CZ-52 I never thought of it as a design worthy of fine manufacturing.
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Old 10-19-2023, 10:32 PM
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I'll throw these two Colt models out there. From a few prototypes and then only a small number of production guns from 2011 to 2013. They had gained some interest especially the smaller New Agent model since during this time most states in the U.S. had passed civilian carry and/ or concealed carry laws. Both having lightweight frames and being Double Action Only handguns, they could have quite possibly been a hit. But, apparently both victims of Colt's infamous start/ stop management decision making at the time. And being that so few made it out of production neither one really had a chance to see if the gun buying community would embrace them or not.

According to Colt less than 300 of the Double Action Government models were made and only 100 of the Double Action New Agent's were made.
45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.-img_0371-jpg
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Old 10-19-2023, 11:08 PM
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An interesting and fun to read post.
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Old 10-19-2023, 11:29 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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So, did you write the book yet? (About the .45s) Great post and thank you.
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Old 10-20-2023, 02:08 AM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Very good information here!

I know it's not an auto, but did you consider including the Semmerling? I was always fascinated by them.
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Old 10-20-2023, 02:39 AM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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If I could have any 45 pistol made it would be the HK MK23 USSOCOM. A guy on the Harley Forum scored one a few year ago.

Found this write up about them.

In 1989, US SOCOM began reviewing their equipment to see which gear fit the needs of their special close quarters battle role.

After several tests, Heckler & Koch and Colt submissions were selected to move to phase I of the OHWS program in August 1991. They were awarded developmental contracts to produce 30 systems.

Colt was eliminated after phase I, leaving only HK to move on to phase II. This phase subjected the pistols to the strictest reliability testing any pistol ever went through. The requirement was for no less than 2,000 MRBF; the HK OHWS averaged 6,027 MRBF and could reach 15,122 MRBF. Three pistols went through a 30,000-round endurance test and maintained accuracy of 2.5 in (64 mm) at 25 meters; only the O-ring needed replacement after 20,000 rounds. The weapons worked in temperatures from -25 degrees Fahrenheit to 140 degrees Fahrenheit while exposed to mud, ice, and sand. Phase III was the awarding of a production contract to HK in June 1995. Their pistol was type classified as the Mark 23 Mod 0, and 1,950 systems were ordered at $1,186 each. All pistols were produced in Germany and the first was delivered to SOCOM on 1 May 1996.

This is a picture of his HK.

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Old 10-20-2023, 03:30 AM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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I had wondered if the Webley .455 Automatic pistol, designed by William Whiting, was ever made as a prototype to chamber 45 ACP? The .455 Webley Auto cartridge is very similar in dimensions to the 45 ACP, though the former is intended to headspace off the rim.
Colt did manufacture some 1911s in the Webley cartridge, so the reverse seems a plausible possibility.

Attached is a photo of the Webley .455 auto and a rare image of the original cartridge diagram.
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Old 10-21-2023, 04:04 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Fascinating and edifying monograph!

Well done.

John
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Old 10-21-2023, 05:37 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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I own many many of the pistols there. Some are outstanding, some are ok, some are junk.

Below are five of the finest in the world...actually I own multiple copies of them. Delta Top Gun, Korriphila HSP701, Korth Autopistol, Geiger GRP, Korth PRS






Pardinis are really cool also...


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Old 10-21-2023, 06:35 PM
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Sarsilmaz K2 45, a high-capacity (14 round mags), Turkish made, CZ-97 clone.

45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.-sark245_01-jpg
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Old 10-21-2023, 07:47 PM
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Mauser M2, but actually a Sig design using a rotating barrel. Note the locking lug on the rotating barrel in the second picture. If all that wasn't schizoid enough, check out the weird placement of the safety on the rear of the slide.

***CLICK FOR FULL SIZE***

45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.-mauserm2lhs2-jpg

45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.-mauserm2rhs-jpg

45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.-mauserm2safety-jpg
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Old 10-21-2023, 07:59 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Thanks for your tremendous efforts, you show many I have never seen before. Many very rare guns.
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Old 10-22-2023, 05:42 AM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Indeed wonderful to see that you all can name pistols that I clearly did not have found.
I promise to add them soon.

@bc1023I have seen parts of your wonderful target pistols collection before.
The stainless Pardini I really find desirable.
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Old 10-22-2023, 02:11 PM
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This the best ugly gun thread I’ve ever seen.
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Old 10-22-2023, 02:25 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS336 View Post
Holy smoke, that was great! Never heard of most of these, very interesting and thanks for the effort you put forth.
Ditto!

You could have a great career as a gun writer here in the USA!

Quote:
Worst 45 I ever had was a Llama government clone-severe jam-o-matic.
Another ditto!

Quote:
Sarsilmaz K2 45


Great pistol - and I'd never have noticed it was missing even though I have one!

I didn't see my CS-45 either.



Still, a fabulous piece or research and hard work! Well done!
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Old 10-22-2023, 05:05 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Wow! Obsessed Much! great article though
. I have a Glock 21
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Old 10-22-2023, 09:36 PM
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I may have missed them, but I didn't see either of the Argentine .45s.

The Sistema 1927, a Colt 1911 clone, and the Ballester Molina, a 1911 look alike but with few interchangeable parts.
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Old 12-27-2023, 02:18 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Updated with most suggestions. Thanks!

Added:
- Astra A-75-80-90-100
- IMI SP-21 Barak
- Mauser M2
- Republic Arms PatriotFEG GKK/45

The Colt Agents suggested by lonestar57 I find very interesting and I will add them soon.Although I wanted to avoid adding all kinds of 1911 copies, these would fit being so little made.

The Sistema 1927 and the Ballester Molina I will look into.
I wanted to avoid mentioning all 1911 copies made around the world. Then the list will be long.
Maybe military 1911 clones like the  Argentine .45s but also the Kongsberg demand a separate thread.

Till later!

Last edited by Jeroenw114; 12-27-2023 at 02:19 PM.
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Old 12-27-2023, 05:39 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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A great read for sure and very informative ...many of these I've never even heard of.

Great write up !
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Old 12-30-2023, 01:54 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Updated Star with model PD as member serger suggested.
Added the Colt double actions as member lonestar57 suggested. In section “The failed projects of Colt”
Also found another experimental Colt DA prototype. Added in section “Remarkable items from lesser distant past”
Added Ballester-Molina as suggested by member Sistema1927 at section “Regular but discontinued production”
And last but not least I added the Arminex Trifire in section “Ceased production, failed projects and prototypes”. Completely overlooked this one till now.
Oh, again not last! Found the Rudd Automatic Pistol. And a sheet metal Colt 1911. (Member mikerjf suggested the liberator, well, this is the Liberator on steroids)
Added to section “Ceased production, failed projects and prototypes”


More suggestions are welcome. Most is out there, written about before.
Remember, goal is not to list all 45ACP pistols but the one we do not know, the prototypes, small series, etc. (Semi-automatic pistols) A lot of people will now some, but not al.
What I have learned that there were lot’s of people dreaming, experimenting and investing largely in their dreams and most time it does not work out. Not only in 45ACP of course. I have greatly respect for those man. I can fantasy about guns, improved and better than available, and sometimes I am tempted to make a 3D drawing (I am 3D engineer) but I know I have not the passion, time and money to make it work.

Have a good new year's eve and all the best for 2024
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Old 12-30-2023, 07:25 PM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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Did I miss the EAA Tanfoglio Witness in .45 ACP? Another CZ variant, a fairly close copy of the Bren Ten. Others here complained about the Llama large frame .45. I owned one for around 30 years, never had anything bad to say about it. Not a Colt by any means but it functioned reliably for me. Nothing on the Llama interchanged with the 1911, so you can't call it a clone.

Last edited by DWalt; 12-31-2023 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 12-31-2023, 12:00 AM
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45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes. 45ACP pistols. The unknown, the rare and the prototypes.  
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I might have missed seeing it here, but in the mid-70's, there was a
DAO Davis compact .45 semi-auto. I tried to get my Dad to buy one,
but he wouldn't.... Probably a good decision, as they didn't last long.
Excellent post -- WELL DONE!! Thank you!
John
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Old 12-31-2023, 02:44 PM
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I would distinguish between prototypes and inventors' model, pre-production models, short production runs, marketplace and/or business failures-Dornaus and Dixon and the Bren Ten, the Hudson H9, e.g.
Mossberg was going to get into handguns in 1980-81, the US Arms Abilene and the CAC .45, for whatever reasons those plans did not come to fruition. The CAC was designed by Bo Clerke, those who have handled it said it was a real Rube Goldberg design.
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