I’ve always enjoyed Jeff Cooper’s writings. Perhaps a minor point, he was not a full bird colonel. His highest rank achieved in the Marines was Lieutenant Colonel and if one chooses to refer to him by rank it should be LtCol and if he were still alive today he would correct them as well.

I find it rather distasteful to speak ill of the dead since they cannot defend themselves anymore and reading some of the negative comments here I consider them to be in “poor form.” I believe he made some worthwhile contributions and should be applauded for such. I’m quite certain he ruffled some feathers, so be it, have a tissue.

I freely admit some bias since I grew up reading Keith, O’Connor, Cooper, Askins, Jordan, Skelton and others. They were my hero’s back then and all made worthwhile contributions. I myself, will not speak ill of a patriotic American who served honorably in WWII and Korea, and made some worthwhile contributions and was considered the father of the modern technique of handgun shooting.

I am going to jump in here and say that I thought that the Remington 760 with an 18" barrel was a great "scout" type rifle. Mine has the longer barrel, but for caliber choices, detachable magazine, quick follow up shots without taking your cheek off the gun, and accuracy that is more than adequate, it would be hard to beat. Except you have to mount the scope on the receiver.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

The closest to owning a scout type rifle I have come is probably an SKS with a forward mounted long eye relief scope. I have shot a few bolt actions set up as scout rifles though. Really didn't see any advantage, and didn't care for the rifles balance with the forward mounted optics.

Larry

Petepeterson, that is the number I got when I got "scoped."

I’ve always liked this photo actually. A photo op no doubt but it reminds me of a time when men were men.

Tying Jeff Cooper to Nazi’s? There is only one group who consistently uses the Nazi label attaching it to people they dislike never mind any conclusive evidence. Not very lawyer like, eh?

If you cannot afford the Steyr, an excellent base for a custom Scout is the Howa 1500 “Superlite,” which weighs 4 lb. 7 oz. without optic or sling in .308 caliber. While alive, “Uncle Jeff,” said if you could not or would not go all in on a Scout, the next best thing was the Ruger 77 Lightweight with a standard 4 power scope in the traditional position. There are a number of rifles that fit the short barrel, light weight description. The fixed 4 power, on the other hand is impossible in a quality optic. Leupold makes an excellent low power variable optic that, if I recall, is a 1-5, or something like that, which mounts in the traditional (not forward) position. The Scout was designed to do many jobs well as a rifleman on a scouting mission (for game or enemy combatants) may not know exactly what job needs doing until the problem presents.

Time to revisit this conversation. When I bought my Rem., 600 I did so because I wanted a bolt action .308. I didn't give a ratspatutie be it short barreled or mid-barrel scope or if it was light as a bumblebee. I was looking for a .308 so that when the governor came looking for my SA M1A, I would have an excuse for all the 7.62X51 and .308 ammo in the dungeon. Now there are a few things I don't like about it, but the greatest dislike is the stock is slicker than an ice-skating pond in spring. Some self-sticking sanding discs have mostly solved that problem. (I hate pressed checkering) Some day when all my other chores are caught up, I may just sit down and attempt to properly cut the checkering. Someday?

Actually, it is.

Right. But one need not fret overly much about Cooper not being here to “defend” himself. He never did much of that while he was here. Ken Hackathorn recalled that he once tried “to correct him” on some minor point. The response was a blank stare off into space and he could see the mental “delete button” being pushed. I had to laugh at that. What a great recollection, and I considered it completely in character with what little I knew of him.

I too wish the “Col. Cooper” stuff could have been dispensed with, but not owing to the difference between COL and LTC. It just seemed overused to the point of being obsequious. Perceptions may vary.

This strays a bit from the topic of the Scout rifle, and I apologize for that, but it is difficult, no matter which way you lean, to separate Jeff Cooper from the Scout rifle subject. I’d not heard his comment about the Ruger 77 and 4x scope, but it does not really surprise me.

There was an old southern affectation of confederates calling each other "Colonel" around the turn of the 20th century and continuing. It was meant as respect, I think, and I do not know how widespread it was, but my impression was that any veteran above sergeant was called captain, and anyone above that was called colonel, unless he was known to have been an actual general. (Please correct me with my thanks.)
If you know the etiquette for an honorary doctorate, this was similar.
The governor of Kentucky made Harland Sanders an honorary colonel, still the highest award the Ky governor can give.
You can join the Honorable Order of Kentucky Colonels by helping with their benevolent efforts. A most worthy group indeed.
Anyway, the proper way to address a Lt. Colonel named Cooper is "Colonel Cooper". How this could be overused or how it could be considered obsequious is beyond me.

Connecting him to the scout rifle concept is to fundamentally misunderstand him. It is also a fundamental misunderstanding of the scout rifle concept as well, but I must admit that it is routine for people to do this. The wiki article on "scout rifle" is typical, so I accept that your statement above as perfectly understandable., akin to associating the scout rifle with the forward mounted scope.

I have no right to speak with authority, but here is where I am coming from. I have read everything by him twice, and really took it all to heart. I have also read everything he recommended for reading including "Jock of the Bushveldt" and I did this after long study and partly because of long study of the Anglo-Boer War. The Colonel's experience in South Africa, and his admiration for the Boers of history, and for the South African shooting sportsmen of his day informs profoundly everything he wrote. He uses the term "scout" in the same way and for the same reason that Baden-Powel used the term when he founded the Boy Scouts. B-P had done much of the reconnaisance work himself during his successful defense of Mafeking.

I enjoyed this thread!

Kind Regards Brendon and All!
BrianD

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I re-read this thread again today, and appreciate all of the opinions, both positive and negative, about Jeff Cooper's Scout Rifle idea. Some were expressed by people who have not read Jeff Cooper's writings, and some were expressed by people without experience actually using a true Scout Rifle. That's ok, that all figures into the weight given the opinion. C'est la vie.

That said, a few members posted classless and in some cases baseless allegations against Col. Cooper.

One person accused him of being a Nazi because of the Raven logo he chose for Gunsite, the reasons given very thoroughly in writing by Col. Cooper at the time.

Another accused him of being a liar because the member cannot imagine a man being able to lift and carry a dead animal on his shoulders.

Another accused Col. Cooper of being an "Alpha Hotel" because he apparently did not realize Col. Cooper did not like small talk, preferring instead philosophy or other topics requiring thought before talking.

At one point, one member said Col. Cooper dropped the 1911 as his carry gun for the SIG 225 when the 225 came out. To that person, I would say, do you know who Jeff Cooper is, have you ever read anything he wrote, do you know what the SIG 225 is, and do you know what cartridge it chambers? As one member said, it truly felt like people were just making up stuff at that point.

I found these and maybe a few others both classless and baseless, and an embarrassment, such comments being more of what one might expect on Facebook instead of this fine forum.

I can't believe no one has yet mentioned Gale McMillan's comment on the scout rifle concept, to paraphrase: "A pistol shooter's idea of what a rifle should look like."

And further:

"You will have to acknowledge that Jeff Cooper is the father of the scout rifle. If you have ever had more than a two minute conversation with him he will have told you that a rifle doesn't have to shoot better than 3 MOA. Being some one who has spent the last 50 years dedicated to making rifles shoot as well as possible I will say that if a rifle will not put the bullet within one caliber of point of aim at a 100 yards then it won't shoot well enough! The major point of a rifle is to be able to hit the object being shot at..."

"I have no quarrel with those who are willing to give up performance to be in the crowd of Me To. I can readily understand that the average man can't hit a road sign at over 25 yards but to cease to strive for excellence in performance is to stop any further development of the rifle."

Also, put me in the camp that the revisionist view of Cooper, generally, is long overdue.

Brian… whenever I spoke with him, he being 30-years my senior, I addressed him as Mr. Cooper. He never objected.

I have to agree with Shawn that “small talk” did not seem to be one of his favored pastimes.

What Col. Cooper actually said was that he would like both a great trigger and MOA accuracy, but that if he had to choose between a great trigger and MOA accuracy, he would rather have a fine "glass rod" trigger than MOA accuracy.

And, his comment about a rifle not needing to be more than 3 MOA was in the context of the fact that 99% of shooters are simply incapable of better than that using field positions. I suppose, however, that most people shoot from a bench these days, but that was not to what he was referring.

I’m always amazed that we don’t hear more of the fella that squeezed off a round right in front of Cooper at a conference, using Cooper’s rifle and ammunition laid out on the table . . .

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