The mouse gun conundrum.

robertrwalsh

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I own five mouse guns (defined as a .25 automatic for this purpose). I like them. They are interesting pieces of machinery though only marginally (very marginally) a weapon. In the 50 + years I have been regularly carrying a handgun I have carried one maybe three times, always under situations where I really wanted to have a gun but couldn't effectively conceal anything bigger.

Herein lies the question. The one I shoot the best is a newer Beretta with a tip-up barrel. It is also by far the bulkiest of them. It is very nearly as large as a S&W J frame. I also have an older, slimmer Beretta which I shoot OK but is harder to handle and bites me on occasion, two Colts (a 1908 and a Pony) and a FN Vest Pocket (very slightly bigger than the much better known Baby Browning).

I am very seriously thinking about just plain selling one or two of them just because I rarely shoot them and even more rarely carry one. The question then becomes what to keep and what to not keep (if any) and what criteria to use. The FN is by far the hardest for me to shoot as the sights are essentially non-existant, though how much that means at reasonable mouse gun ranges is questionable. (I do have to shoot out to 15 yards to get them on my carry records.) Some are easier to change magazines than others, though I realize the chances of needing a magazine change are remote. The Colts almost certainly have the best resale value but (along with the FN) are much easier to break down for cleaning than the Berettas. Anybody got any ideas they might like to throw in my direction? (I don't NEED the money and would just use the sales money to buy another gun, so that might be a moot issue.)
 
Which one would you like to be holding when that huge stray dog starts threatening?

The problem with mouse guns is, you can only really count on them for a “psychological stop”. If it’s dark and the perp can’t see it, or if it’s an animal, you might have to accept that your attacker dies “later”… and maybe after you.

They *can* be dangerous. I just don’t think you can *count* on them to be a deterrent. I like them, but I don’t carry one.
 
I own five mouse guns (defined as a .25 automatic for this purpose). I like them. They are interesting pieces of machinery though only marginally (very marginally) a weapon. In the 50 + years I have been regularly carrying a handgun I have carried one maybe three times, always under situations where I really wanted to have a gun but couldn't effectively conceal anything bigger.

Herein lies the question. The one I shoot the best is a newer Beretta with a tip-up barrel. It is also by far the bulkiest of them. It is very nearly as large as a S&W J frame. I also have an older, slimmer Beretta which I shoot OK but is harder to handle and bites me on occasion, two Colts (a 1908 and a Pony) and a FN Vest Pocket (very slightly bigger than the much better known Baby Browning).

I am very seriously thinking about just plain selling one or two of them just because I rarely shoot them and even more rarely carry one. The question then becomes what to keep and what to not keep (if any) and what criteria to use. The FN is by far the hardest for me to shoot as the sights are essentially non-existant, though how much that means at reasonable mouse gun ranges is questionable. (I do have to shoot out to 15 yards to get them on my carry records.) Some are easier to change magazines than others, though I realize the chances of needing a magazine change are remote. The Colts almost certainly have the best resale value but (along with the FN) are much easier to break down for cleaning than the Berettas. Anybody got any ideas they might like to throw in my direction? (I don't NEED the money and would just use the sales money to buy another gun, so that might be a moot issue.)
I'd definitely keep the Beretta and Colts, just because, if you shoot them. If you don't shoot any of them and they don't have a sentimental value, sell them all. There are so many better choices for small handguns in much better calibers to pick from these days.
 
Didn't a Native American lady kill a grizzly bear with a 25acp?

Just sayin'.
 
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This is my recommendation for shooting a gun with miniscule sights.


Paint a white stripe down the rib. You don't need to see the front sight and the rear sight. Just point that white stripe at what you want to hit.



Colt Junior 25.
 

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Didn't a Native American lady kill a grizzly bear with a 25acp?

Just sayin'.
I think you're getting two different things mixed up. Bella Twin, , since she was Canadian, would be First Nations and not native American, kill the grizzly bear with a single shot 22 rifle using 22 longs.


And then there was a Colt advertisement that claimed somebody had killed a black bear with a 1908 pocket 25.
 

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If you want to trust your life to a .25 automatic….

I only really trust .40 on up. .45 and .357 preferred.
 
I went through this conundrum with 380’s (never liked anything smaller - not including 22LR) When 9mm’s arrived on the scene there was no need for a Walther, Glock or anything similar. I have two Sig 365’s and a Shield for carry.
 
Oh ****, I didn't really want to get into this! If you want to collect mouse guns cuz you like them for some reason, go for it. As far as carrying them for any sort of self defense, I would suggest strongly against it. Most have short sight radius's poor triggers and sights and most importantly, minimal stopping power. Ken Hackenthorn, very well known instructor says that mouse guns are great for those that never plan to use them.
I have carried and concealed handguns all of my life and have never considered a .25 or .32 mouse gun for protection. There are just to many better, more capable and powerful choices available to you now a days.
 
I recall a class at Gunsite (I was there back in the day when the Colonel was still running it) when Cooper said that, if you owned a .25 auto you should make sure to never load it when you carry it, because you might shoot somebody and thereby make them mad. As I said in my opening post I really do not consider it to be a serious weapon. I normally carry a micro 9mm 1911 or a .38 revolver. I own them mostly because they are neat pieces of machinery. I think carrying one 2 or 3 times maybe in 50+ years under highly unusual circumstances does not constitute an endorsement of the .25 auto as a serious defense weapon.
 
Having lived in a jurisdiction where licenses were at at premium and licensees were required to justify add'l handgun purchases, I would be reluctant to sell any mousegun I already owned. As you point out, the trade-offs are very apparent. The Beretta is more user-friendly than the smaller Browning. Give it another year (or two!) before you decide. Can't have too many pocket guns.;)

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103
 
My mouse gun collection is similar to yours
Iver Johnson TP25
Colt 1908 Vest Pocket
Astra Cub (same gun as the Colt Jr)
Baur Baby Browning (stainless)
Beretta 21a in 22LR
Iver Johnson TP22 in 22LR
EDIT: Forgot one
S&W 61-3 in 22LR

I don't shoot them a lot and only carry the 25 ACPs as a BUG.
They are only a GOMA gun, and I wouldn't count on them at much more than contact distances.
I figure punching 5 or 6 little holes in a bad guy will do more to end an attack than using strong language.
Since they don't eat anything I wouldn't be interested in selling any of them.

BUT, if I had to sell a couple to raise some cash I'd sell the two that would bring the most money.
 
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A 32 saved the founder of Seecamp’s life as I recall. I have all the mouse guns I want. Several .25’s. The NAA 22 mag break forward ranger, Seecamp’s (milfords), rohrbaugs, keltec p3at and p32. I love them. They are so cool imo. Do I carry them? Nah.I take that back, I will put the p3at with a clip and nothing in the pipe in my jogging shorts waistband when I run.

I don’t see a reason to sell them. I’ll likely give them to my kids/grandkids one day and they can puzzle over why I had so many and sell them for cheap and maybe keep a few.

My niece ended up needing a little pistol. I felt good about her having the tip up berretta bobcat. For her it about all she could handle and use. Never know when someone has a need like that.

Then there are the glocks and sigs… oh boy. Too many??? probably? but if there is a zombie apocalypse I’d guess they would all be worth their weight in gold. That and ammo seems like trade fodder to me. 2¢
 
iscs-yoda-albums-pistols-all-brands-picture15469-25-acp-assortment-beretta-950-bs-cz-duo-german-occupied-czechoslovakia-1944-psa-baby-browning-marked-fabrique-nationale-browning-grip-panels.jpg


iscs-yoda-albums-pistols-all-brands-picture15682-seecamp-32-christy-sliding-blade-knife.jpg


There is a time and a place for mouse guns, whether .25 ACP or .32 ACP or .22 LR because they used to come in all three flavors and I think that they still do.

Wait - as a matter of fact there is a fourth choice - .22 Magnum:

iscs-yoda-albums-miscellany-picture13626-hs-22-magnum-derringer-white-grips.jpg


iscs-yoda-albums-miscellany-picture13625-hs-22-magnum-derringer-galco-aow-holster.jpg


Pictured above are a Beretta 950BS/.25 ACP, a CZ Duo (WW2 German era)/,25 ACP, a PSP Browning/.25ACP [*** and long gone), and a Seecamp/.32ACP. I then added a High Standard .22 Magnum derringer when I remembered it as I was typing I happen to have two of those; one is NIB and in the original box. The one pictured I have shot and I carry. See below.*

The OP just wants to decide what to sell. He wasn't discussing the pros and cons of carrying a mouse gun. So, clearly, if there is no sentimental value and it's not a special "collection" the only criteria that matters is how much money he can get to buy another gun that he wants. Ipso facto, I'd sell the Colts. Top dollar. Done and done.

Col. Cooper aside, the first rule of gun fighting has always been "have a gun". If you cannot think of a scenario where the only gun you can conceal is a mouse gun then you haven't seen everything or been everywhere.

In beach clothes is a fun example.

*In pajamas and a robe is another example if you hang around the house dressed that way and want to have a firearm on your person. Especially if you might go outside to toss the trash.

How about my favorite - you work somewhere that forbids firearms and you don't care about that rule but certainly don't want to get caught. I have decades of experience in that realm. ;)

Saying it has to be a .357 Magnum, or has to start with a 4, means you go around without a gun way more than I do. :D
 
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Okay, two I refuse to carry that occurred to me:

NAA Mini Revolver .22 Short

iscs-yoda-albums-miscellany-picture22005-naa-mini-revolver-22-short.jpg


Remington .41 Rimfire derringer -

iscs-yoda-albums-miscellany-picture24883-remington-41-rimfire-derringer-illion-ny.jpg


Those two are just silly and useless except as house decoration if you like leaving guns around for house decoration and I admit that I do.
 
Actually my Bobcat in 22lr is only a bit smaller than a KAHR CW380. Don't know if it qualifies as a "true mousegun", but it sure performs with 65gr Lehigh reloads.

Cheers!

P.S. Oh, I forgot: sell 'em all. 25acp is too small to reload IMHO.
 
Qwerty357 - just a correction on Seecamp comment in your post based on my friendship with Larry Seecamp and his Father.
Leuder Seecamp Sr was the founder of Seecamp. His life had been saved during WWII not by a .32, but by the double action of a Walther P38. He was able to get off the first shot against an adversary armed with a Luger. He and his son Larry started making the LWS25 and the first 5,000 guns were in that caliber. They then changed to the .32 caliber LWS32 and finally also offered in .380 - all the same size guns. They didn’t have sights and were strictly double action with a heavier trigger pull. Larry was a firm believer of always having a gun and the LWS series was designed around that principle. For it’s designed purpose it didn’t need sights and the heavier double action negated the need for a manual safety. Mr. Seecamp built a special polished .25 for my Wife’s 25th Birthday (her name as serial number ending in 25).
The Seecamp owners manual was written by Larry and was updated as new calibers were introduced. It is a refreshing read. It is still just as applicable today - pages 1-5 specifically. The new owners in MA kept the manual as it was and continue to update it.

https://seecamp.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/Seecamp-Manual.pdf

About - Seecamp Firearms

Oh and my first backup gun was a Beretta tip up in .22 short.
I traded it to Larry for my first .25.
 

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