Colt 1909

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Hello all, Lgs just brought in a bunch of old colt revolvers. The one that is peeking my interest is this 1909 he has. What a big piece of iron! He hasn’t priced it yet and is not yet on display either. Could anyone please give me a little detail on it and what to look for. Is the timing and other normal checks the same route as a Smith?It is in extremely nice condition like mint almost. I will be visiting again tomorrow to take pics and get the sn. What would be a starting point as value in said condition?This place is a little to close to home if ya know what I mean. Will post some pics tomorrow.Thanks Don
 
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Probably the best place to get your answer is in the Colt forum. Good folks there with tons of knowledge and happy to share it.
 
The 1909 is a .45 Colt on the New Service frame. It was a military gun...the underside of the revolver will say whether it's was for the Army, Navy or USMC. One of them...I think the Marine version has a round butt which makes it quite desirable. Any of the three versions are desirable but the Navy and USMC were in much smaller numbers. The majority of the Army 1909 revolvers were sent directly to the Philippines.

Here's mine...it a US Army that was sent to the Philippines...
1909-left.jpg


Colts are a little different than Smiths when it comes to checking them out...not much though. If you cock the hammer and let it drop...keeping the trigger to the rear...there should be no movement in the cylinder at all. It should be very tight.

Values all depend on exactly whether it's USA, USN or USMC...and condition...condition...condition. Photos will help to assess the sharpness of the roll marks, etc to make sure it hasn't been refinished.
 
Thanks Snidley and 38. Ya, I was thinking the colt forum, but seemed like maybe somebody here might know enough about em also, at least for a quick assessment.
 
Know enough about them, but without pictures that does not do so good. If it is a USMC get you big boy wallet out in most any condition. Next will be the Navy and then the Army. Condition is pretty much everything. But folks will pay way more for the Jarhead version. Had an Army and shot it some. Then someone wanted it more than I did and paid me double what I had in it. If it had been a USMC, it would still reside here.
 
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455 are you tempting me? It would be my first and only Colt. I’ll have pics and info soon. Thinking a lot of coin tho. So I’m looking for tight lock up after hammer drop and trigger still to the rear and military branch for basic starters. Awesome. It just doesn’t end. Don
 
Here’s how to check an older V spring Colt DA revolver (it’s a little more involved than a S&W):

To check Colt timing:

BOLT RETRACTION AND "SNAP BACK".
Open the cylinder and look at the small "lug" in the bottom of the cylinder window. This is the cylinder locking bolt.
Cock the hammer, and watch as the bolt retracts into the frame and pops back out.
The bolt MUST begin to retract THE INSTANT the hammer begins to move.
There MUST be NO (ZERO) hammer movement possible before the bolt starts to retract.
The bolt should retract smoothly with no hesitation until it's fully retracted, then it must pop back out with a clean "snap".
There should be no hesitation, and no amount of "creeping" back out.

CYLINDER UNLOCKING.
Close the cylinder.
Use your left thumb or fore finger to again cock the hammer, closely watching the cylinder bolt as you SLOWLY cock the hammer.
As the hammer comes back, the bolt will retract away from the cylinder.
The bolt must retract far enough to unlock the cylinder BEFORE the cylinder begins to rotate.
If the bolt is still slightly engaged with the cylinder lock notch, the cylinder will be attempting to turn while still partially locked.
This produces a "catch" or "hard spot" in the trigger pull and will damage both the bolt and the cylinder lock notches.
This often appears as metal "pulled out" of the lock notches, with rounded off and burred notches.

BOLT DROP TIMING.
Continue to cock the hammer, LIGHTLY laying your right index finger on the cylinder just enough to prevent "free wheeling".
Watch for the bolt to drop back onto the cylinder. WHERE the bolt drops is CRITICAL.
The bolt MUST drop onto the leade or ramp in front of the actual cylinder notch.
If the bolt drops too soon, (in front of the notch ramp), it will mar the finish of the cylinder.
The bolt should drop into “about” the middle of the ramp.
If the bolt drops late, (farther toward the actual locking notch) the revolver may display "cylinder throw-by".
In this condition, during double action shooting the cylinder may rotate PAST the locking notch, and fire in an unlocked condition.
It's the nature of the Colt action, that a hesitant or jerky trigger pull by the user can induce throw-by in even a properly tuned Colt.
The Colt trigger should be pulled with a smooth, even pull, with no sudden jerks at the beginning.

CYLINDER LOCKUP.
Continue to pull the hammer back and both watch and listen for the bolt to drop into the cylinder lock notch.
The bolt must drop into the actual lock notch before or just as the hammer reaches full cock.The most common Colt mis-time situation is the hammer cocks before the bolt drops into the lock notch. (Hammer is cocked, but cylinder isn't locked).
In this condition, with the hammer fully cocked, you can push the cylinder slightly, and you will hear the "CLICK" as the bolt drops into lock.
In my experience, most Colt's leave the factory with the bolt dropping a little late into the leade, but usually wear in to correct timing.
If the bolt drops onto the cylinder early, no real problem, but there will be extra finish wear.
If the bolt drops late (closer to the lock notch) the cylinder may "throw by" or rotate TOO far in double action and this can cause off-center primer hits and firing while unlocked.

Each of these checks should be done on EACH chamber. All of these checks are better done individually. In other words, do the bolt retraction check on all six chambers, then do the bolt drop test, and so on.

A properly tuned Colt will:
Have a smoothly functioning bolt with no sticky or hesitant movement.

Unlock before the cylinder begins to turn.

The bolt will drop onto the middle of the ramp.

The bolt will drop into the lock notch just before or as the hammer reaches full cock.
 
455 are you tempting me? It would be my first and only Colt. I’ll have pics and info soon. Thinking a lot of coin tho. So I’m looking for tight lock up after hammer drop and trigger still to the rear and military branch for basic starters. Awesome. It just doesn’t end. Don

If it is a U.S. Army or USN or USMC Model 1909, then it is not a .455. It is a .45 Colt.
 
Oh sorry I was responding to 455hunter. Sorry for the confusion.Really don’t know how to isolate a post so to speak and respond to it. Don
 
A common situation you find on the orig Colt V spring lock work DA revolvers is in the DA mode where the hammer is brought back to the point just before it is to fall (in DA).

At that point in a properly timed revolver, the cylinder bolt should have dropped into it's locking notch and the cyl is locked into position.

Many revolvers at this stage will have the cylinder with the bolt just on the edge of dropping into it's locking slot, but not quite.

The tiny extra pull of the trigger releasing the hammer at DA will then push the cylinder around the needed rotational motion the allows the bolt to drop into it's locking slot.

This is so common (the cylinder not being quite locked just as the hammer falls in DA) that many have said and believe it is the way it's designed.
Not true,,the cylinder should be locked just as the hammer reaches full reward motion and before it is released by the sear,,,not depending on additional trigger rear motion as the hammer falls to push the cylinder the extra needed.

Yes, when the trigger is back all the way and the hammer is down,,the cylinder should be locked from any perceptible rotation. That in a new or still properly timed action.
The Hand's lower tooth of 2 pushes directly upwards on the cyl ratchet tooth and is what freezes the cylinder when the trigger is back and the hammer down.
The upper tooth on the Hand starts the cylinder rotation in the beginning and then passes the motion on to the lower one.
Lots going on inside there.

Hammering/peening the Hand to stretch it is a commonly stated (easy) way to fix all that ails the Colt mechanism.
It is not, though it can be one of several different useful things that can be used in fine adjustments.
Bending the Crane (Yoke) is another but that's something you really have to have some experience with. It can bring two or three .000" into the game for you when the Hand is worn and the timing off because of it.
They bend quite easily FWIW,,, very easily.
So never do the Flip the Cylinder shut routine as seen on TV.
 
Well friends, went back to the lgs and it was sold for 3k couple hours after I left. I’ll take it as a sign to stick with the Smiths. Thanks all for your input, I appreciate it. Don
 
Well friends, went back to the lgs and it was sold for 3k couple hours after I left. I’ll take it as a sign to stick with the Smiths. Thanks all for your input, I appreciate it. Don

The LGS has on up on an auction board. I am watching it. No plans to bid on it, just curious as to what it will sell for is all.
 
This is my 1909 Colt, a standard Army model. While it will accept and fire regular .45 Colt cartridges, a special military load was called for as an aid in extraction. This one was made by Colt in 1910.

The military cartridges have rims that are slightly wider in circumference to avoid the extractor slipping over the smaller standard rims and causing a jam. Just take it easy when extracting regular .45 Colt empties and hold the barrel vertically.

John

 
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I have two of them, both Army. They were designed to use the .45 M1909 cartridge. Same as the .45 Colt, but with a larger rim diameter for improved case extraction. Military ammunition was always loaded with smokeless powder. So far as I know, it was made only at Frankford Arsenal. As noted, the military sent most of them (not all) to the Philippines, few ever returned to the USA. That is why few are seen today.
 
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