Beginning To Understand Why A Korth Mongoose Revolver Is Worth $3,499

Well the purchase has been made. So now it has to ship in from out of state.

Time will tell if and to what extent I was actually the victim of "hype". I remain unresolved in knowing a clear path forward regarding purchase, so I've taken on a bit of a risk in purchasing anyway. My only point of reference is my 2015 purchase of a highly optioned Wilson Combat CQB Elite for $4,400 from Tractus Arms. That turned out pretty well.

The comments are much appreciated.

In coming to a decision there are the consistently over-the-top glowing statements by reviewers, there are the people here understandably shaking their head at the price, and then of course the Ratzeberg era remarks towards the "new" Korth.

The risk of purchase was in the end the hope for the kind of quintessential revolver shooting experience reported by so many with the Mongoose in other corners of the internet. I even got PM'd by a guy saying he was at the Gun Site Anniversary Shoot referenced in Post #35 and assuring me the description of the gun there is over the top but essentially true. My endless cycling of the gun's action in the store would agree that the action is unprecedented in my own limited revolver experience.

The article linked above by 6String (Post #39) says in part, "There are many objectively measurable performance factors according to which Ratzeburg Korth revolvers are far superior to their S&W counterparts.". As someone who owns and appreciates multiple S&W tuned Performance Center revolvers (4 pic'd below), even if the more modern Nighthawk imported expression of the Korth is not a Ratzeburg Korth, but moves the needle forward in the same way going from a Kimber 1911 to a Wilson Combat did, I'll be delighted. But I suspect the difference may be even greater.

Wilson Combats, Ratzeburg Korths, Nighthawk Korths, ironically, in a gunfight, arguably the apex of one's defensive trust in their firearm's platform and a manufacturer's expression of that platform, I'd have the weapon in my duty belt every time: a Glock Model 35 that the agency pays like $450 for. But that's not why I bought a Korth.

Pictured, TRR8, 627 UDR, 586 L-Comp, M&P R8, all but the M&P tuned by TK Custom, Illinois.

The gun doesn't matter in gun fight, it is more about attitude. I have Korths to forget about fighting guns.

Andyd said:

The gun doesn't matter in gun fight, it is more about attitude. I have Korths to forget about fighting guns.

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As someone who has been shot at as recently as September of 2016, the gun abso-darn-lutely matters, attitude matters more.

But I digress. I bought a Korth today.

dwever said:

As someone who has been shot at as recently as September of 2016, the gun abso-darn-lutely matters, attitude matters more.

But I digress. I bought a Korth today.

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The Korth will give you a very different experience. It is an extremely refined gun. I am sure that you will appreciate all the little refinements of it.

Keep us informed about progress, please - and keep out of harms way!

HOUSTON RICK said:

Must be why I drive Fords and GMCs, I think in terms of good enough.

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I was looking at sticker on a new F150 Platinum.. $64,000

1/2 ton ...wow...sorry off topic..

bigggbbruce said:

I was looking at sticker on a new F150 Platinum.. $64,000

1/2 ton ...wow...sorry off topic..

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I want a Peterbilt pick up truck, not sure how much for the conversion.

Is it worth it? Just about any gun at a 1/4 of the Korth price will shoot better than the shooter can perform so IMO no it isn't worth the price as far as function goes.
That being said I have a Python and a S&W 627-5 Pro which I can shoot the 627 more accurately than the Python. Was the Python worth a little over double what the 627 cost? Function wise no but it sure is Purdy and they don't make them anymore.
I also had a Wilson Combat compact 45 that I couldn't shoot anymore accurately than my Kimber Ultra Carry II 45. I sold the WC and still have the Kimber.

I adjusted the hammer tension spring on my 627-5 and the trigger is just as good if not better than the Python trigger.

So is a Korth worth the extra cha ching? It all depends on the buyer.

Congratulations, make sure you enjoy it by shooting it a lot. Jim (6string) helped me get an unfired Hammerli 100 cleaned and running, very collectible with the original box and accessories as new. Made in 1953. I try to shoot it every week and having a lot of fun with it. As with your Korth, I enjoy the precision of its manufacturing. The high end guns with all the hand fitting are fun to shoot knowing you have the best of the breed. The older Korth's on gun Broker are way above what you are paying. Larry

Andyd said:

The lockwork of the Korth revolvers evolved over about seven years to the longer encapsuled mainspring and roller bearing for D/A stacking. The guns made in between 1962 and 1969 are of great quality with an excellent finish but lack the bearing. All polishing is done by hand and no wheel is used, leading to sharper edges than a wheel can give, something noticeable when I compare my Korths to my Python.

If you get a Korth from the sleepy little town of Ratzeburg, get one made in between 1969 and 1982. After 1982, the sale of the company and change in production staff did to Korth what the Union of Autoworkers did to the Python.

I had shot two Korth revolvers as a young man that I had borrowed from affluent friends in my shooting club and was sorely impressed with their overall quality! It took me a couple of decades to buy my first used Korth and my fascination with them grew, which was also fueled by good luck and me finding the guns for very favourable prices and importing them myself.

Attached below is a look inside and a comparison to the Python. I also had compiled a short overview to the evolution of the Korth here: The Evolution of the Korth Sport Revolver

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Thanks for the info. Now I know what specific time frame to concentrate on if I ever pursue one. Definitely want the roller bearings for adjustment.

Shortly after posting my previous comment, I found through research that the "cylinder" mainspring is actually a coil spring inside of a cylinder. I'm not a fan of coil mainsprings, but I am sure Korth did it right and they don't feel like normal coil spring actions.

I wish I would have got into Korths before all the quality revolver hysteria. That's what interests me most in revolvers, the design and engineering of certain ones coupled with the level of detail and attention given make certain revolvers works of art almost. Even so, I buy quality revolvers for use. Sure a more affordable revolver could be had that would do the same thing, but I like the finer things.

The main reason I am a Colt guy is solely for the V spring action design. It's the most tuneable revolver action made and that allows me to do great things as far as refinement to my needs. My EDC snub Python has a 2# 2oz SA pull and a 7# DA pull, almost no stack remaining. I'm sure many would consider it's DA pull something amazing never felt before. When you're used to factory guns, it doesn't take much tuning or a highly refined action to make one go "wow". I would love to tinker with the Korth's adjustment features and see just how refined it can be made.

iPac,

All adjustments I did on the Korth were just for personal preference, not so much for real improvement. The gun is great.

While the mechanical accuracy of the top recolvers are all comparable, features like trigger characteristics make a difference to those that compete at higher levels, as does a crisp sight picture, and a properly set trigger stop.

A Ruger Mk II is a very fine gun but when I competed in serious UIT matches on higher levels I found the Hämmerli 208 International giving me an advantage. When I shoot for speed with a wheelgun, my choice is still a S&W. A love affair that lasts over four decades.

Does it make me a gun w.h.o.r.e***?

It's the typical diminishing returns sort of thing: As you go up standard increments in quality, the dollar amount gets greater and greater...or a better way to say it is with every, say...$500 increase in price, the increase in quality becomes less and less.

For defensive guns, spending that much doesn't make much sense. I'd say Korth is appealing more to the collector customer, and there's nothing wrong with that. So paying more for the target/competition model might actually be a better idea. I'm sure they're great and I'd love to shoot one.

Jim NNN said:

It's the typical diminishing returns sort of thing: As you go up standard increments in quality, the dollar amount gets greater and greater...or a better way to say it is with every, say...$500 increase in price, the increase in quality becomes less and less.

For defensive guns, spending that much doesn't make much sense. I'd say Korth is appealing more to the collector customer, and there's nothing wrong with that. So paying more for the target/competition model might actually be a better idea. I'm sure they're great and I'd love to shoot one.

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I would hate to see a prize gun go off to an evidence locker.

I got one too. I haven't fired it but it's an impressive firearm.

When you look at the Mongoose and compare it to the classic Ratzeburg revolvers closely, you will notice design changes beyond the cylinder latch and grips; the Korth now has the side plate on the right side and the cylinder turns counterclockwise, as can be easily noticed when looking at the direction of the cylinder slots. The sights appear to be an improvement over the old Combat sights, that had two screws for windage, one was loosened and the other tightened. The screws for the sideplate has also been moved.

Some changes are definitely improvements from a practical standpoint.

Andyd said:

When you look at the Mongoose and compare it to the classic Ratzeburg revolvers closely, you will notice design changes beyond the cylinder latch and grips; the Korth now has the side plate on the right side and the cylinder turns counterclockwise, as can be easily noticed when looking at the direction of the cylinder slots. The sights appear to be an improvement over the old Combat sights, that had two screws for windage, one was loosened and the other tightened. The screws for the sideplate has also been moved.

Some changes are definitely improvements from a practical standpoint.

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One of the things that helped me significantly in purchase was this previously discussed article, kiss my aura - larvatus prodeo. A trove of specific information comparing newer and older Korths. However, being brand new and holding my first Korth within the last two weeks, some of the less objective statements also helped a lot as I am familiar with each watch used by analogy and I also happen to have a 216570 Rolex.

"Korth Ratzeburg is as close as handguns gets to the Patek Philippe Ref. 2552, and Mulhouse Manurhin MR73 and Korth Lollar, to the Rolex 1016. The S&W Triple Lock is comparable to the Hamilton 940; the modern S&W, to a generic Timex."

So to be clear, the Korth Lollar the author has in mind would include the latest imported Mongoose offered by Nighthawk?

Thanks

You know 95% of people when sampling two glasses of the exact same wine with one costing $150 and the other costing $5 will say the more expensive glass was far superior. There is something about the price that will make people think something is better even when it is not.

"So to be clear, the Korth Lollar the author has in mind would include the latest imported Mongoose offered by Nighthawk?"

Michael Zeleny is a very complex person but I would also interprete his statements as you did. Korth started to manufacture the old Korth line in Lollar on CNC machinery and the economical success just did not come. When the new owners took Korth over, they did it as gun enthusiasts that have had a successful manufacturing business going but eventually they had to make sound business decisions and look for new market segments.

I know that in 2008, right before Korth closed shop in Ratzeburg, they were happy to sell seven guns a month. It wasn't a factory but a custom shop and one of their master gun smiths was a master in engraving that he learnt in Ferlach, Austria. A lot of special guns went to rich customers in the Middle East. Probably never got fired.

Riccur said:

You know 95% of people when sampling two glasses of the exact same wine with one costing $150 and the other costing $5 will say the more expensive glass was far superior. There is something about the price that will make people think something is better even when it is not.

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And you know what most people cannot tell apart from a hole in the ground? We are talking Korth revolvers here not psychology.

I think that there are far more than a couple of serious handgunners here on our forum that will be able to appreciate a firearm for what it is and are fully able to make use of a good trigger and other features to enjoy it.

Most so called "shooters", but probably not close to 95%, will not hit the broad side of the barn with anything, not with a $500 Glock, nor with a $6,000 Korth. Those same folks drink wine for the effect, not the taste. Taste for wine needs to be developed over a fairly long - and cost intensive - time and handgunning needs solid fundamentals to be learnt and constantly reinstated and the ammo cost alone is often times prohibitive. Somebody who hangs a B27 at five yards and sprinkles it will never know ...

Andyd said:

iPac,

All adjustments I did on the Korth were just for personal preference, not so much for real improvement. The gun is great.

While the mechanical accuracy of the top recolvers are all comparable, features like trigger characteristics make a difference to those that compete at higher levels, as does a crisp sight picture, and a properly set trigger stop.

A Ruger Mk II is a very fine gun but when I competed in serious UIT matches on higher levels I found the Hämmerli 208 International giving me an advantage. When I shoot for speed with a wheelgun, my choice is still a S&W. A love affair that lasts over four decades.

Does it make me a gun w.h.o.r.e***?

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I'm sure those specific details really do make a difference if one is competing at high levels. I don't do any competition. Still, I have an appreciation for those things anyway because that's something you don't get everywhere. Having adjustments to tweak the trigger pulls without permanently modifying something is a pretty great design.

I just love the time and skill that goes into quality revolvers. Something that simply isn't given to them anymore. For instance, on the vintage Korths, they had Nill grips made for them. That just tells you what kind of quality they are when they come from the factory with Nill grips standard. I have some round butt combat Nills on my snub Python and Karl Nill makes some high end grips.

I also noticed changes you commented about the design of the new Nighthawk Korths. That is one reason I want an older Ratze one. I like the cylinder rotating clockwise, like it should. The side plate is on the wrong side now too. Then of course the cylinder release position and style.

Did Korth ever make their Ratze revolvers in the plasma blue finish? I never researched the plasma blue to see if it has any benefits or downfalls, but man it sure does look good.

-db- said:

I was surprised to hear a conversion cylinder bumps up the price another grand. That's a lot of dough for a mere cylinder.

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They used to advertise that both cylinders were made out of the same bar of steel. You have to plan ahead.