Sigma Let me down

[gatorhugger]

Just curious if you have ever stripped the slide and cleaned the firing pin and channel? It doesn't need to be lubed, just cleaned as it tends to accumulate a lot of crud after many rounds. I had two Sigmas for many years and neither ever had a failure of any kind after thousands of rounds.

Good luck with whatever you end up with!

No I have not stripped it to the firing pin. It's an idea. I may try it before sending it back. Maybe somehow there is crud in there. it was never lubed I can tell you that.
I have NEVER stripped a gun that far but maybe a Sigma needs it.
Worth a shot.

 

[Spotteddog]

I haven't settled on a service interval (round count) to service the striker on my M&P at yet, either? (current-2K-3K)
When/if someone helps you out with suggested mileage for the service, I'd be interested on the opinions too!

 

[gatorhugger]

Irony upon Irony. Here is a thread from here. A month ago. With me defending Sigmas. And two members complaining they had similar issues.
Two members in one thread saying they sent their guns back for Light primer strikes.
That my friends is an issue. If you did a statistical analysis of the odds that two members of a relatively small forum complained of identical issues on ONE THREAD. And Now I have two more guns doing it.

There is something going on with light primer strikes on these guns.
The internet is full of them, too many to be coincidence. I didn't search real hard for that tidbit, I am finding the same story over and over and over. "I had Failure to eject and light primer strikes, sent it back and now it's good as new"
It sounds like a broken record.
It would be interesting to have an off the record conversation with Frank about what he is fixing when he gets these guns.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/smith-wesson-semi-auto-pistols/90494-sigma-40ve-2.html

 

[Walthernut]

Maybe I missed something.
You said you cleaned it at the range, ran 2 mags thru it and it worked fine. Did you say what the ammo was? Were their light primer strikes?
You might have solved your problem by cleaning and lubing.
On the other hand if you have other handguns you might just want to send it in for warranty work to Frank. His turnaround time is good.

 

[Erich]

I've seen light primer strikes in Glocks when users got lube up in the striker channel.

Again, it's statistically absurd to damn the breed on the basis of one user's experience with two pistols - especially when no one else has ever confirmed that the problem lay in the pistols (and not the ammo . . . or some other cause). Why don't you get back to us when you have some more information about what's going on, gatorhugger?

Again, best of luck with getting the issue resolved.

 

[deputydon]

It's been several years, but the Sheriff got tired of sending Sigmas back to Smith. After numerous repairs S&W replaced them all. Sheriff never opened the new ones and traded for Glocks. I would never trust my life or anyone elses to a Sigma. YMMV

-Don

 

[conn ak]

Well my guns are spotless and lubed. If firing 50 rounds causes FTE and light primer strikes, then there is a design issue.
My 6906 at the top could fire 1000 rounds and never burp.

What is all that white crap on the triggers of the two Sigmas. I've owned 3 Sigmas, currently own an old Sigma 9F and 40VE. Never had any problems with FTF,FTE and/or light primer strikes. The old 9F, bought used and dirty, continues to plow through reloads by the hundreds 3 to 4 times a month.

 

[Erich]

I decided to carry mine tomorrow.

 

[gatorhugger]

Both guns were sent to Frank today. Let's have him take a looksee.
It's not a lubrication issue. Either too much or too little.
I believe I said that several times.
All white lube was cleaned off the rails and interface, and a VERY light( a couple drops of oil put just on the rails).
There was never much to begin with, but I was trying anything I could think of.

The fact is there are two new guns from one person having light primer strikes. It may mean nothing, a statisical anomaly.
It may mean everything.
I showed two other people in one thread with the same issue in the last month.
While it is possible there is gunk in the firing pin channel, I doubt it. Unless they are not cleaned out properly at the factory to begin with.
I have never oiled or lubed a firing pin in my life.
Worse comes to worse, he fixes them up and maybe lightens the trigger at the same time.
I ain't real upset about it, I have more guns and it gives me a chance to carry my 6906.
I get it back, and if I run 200 rounds straight, I will trust it again.
But don't discard the report as bogus or operator error, it is not.
It's very much real for numerous Sigmas. Do a quick web search, Heck do a search just on
this site, it's happening.

 

[Sgt 127]

Well since the factory has the 99, I decided to send the Sigmas to Frank at LSG.
Maybe he can get them back faster and figure out what is going on.

Are you talking about Lones Star Guns in Plano Texas? Could you post thier number or PM me? I thought they were out of business...

 

[Pasifikawv]

Are you talking about Lones Star Guns in Plano Texas? Could you post thier number or PM me? I thought they were out of business...

LSG, Mfg|Gun Parts|Warranty|Gunsmithing

Service is fantastic...

 

[Fastbolt]

Good.

It'll be interesting to hear what they determined was required to correct the situation.

BTW, what is that white goo oozing out at the top of the trigger guard?

If it's TW25B there's probably too much of it present (and the plastic trigger isn't a lube point in my old Sigma Series armorer manual, last I looked). When I spoke to the chemist at the Mil-Comm company one time (Mike), he told me that if I could still see white color after applying the grease that I was using too much. (Naturally, Sig Sauer liberally applied it in what appeared to be the 'slather it on' method, presumably for packing & shipping purpose, when I examined some NIB Sig Sauer guns one time when they were using & promoting the product.)

I only mention it because if enough lube/grease is being applied to where it can ooze from between the trigger and the frame, it's not a stretch to imagine that more of it might have been used where it could enter the firing pin channel.

Over the course of my time working as an armorer supporting several hundred S&W 3rd gen pistols I had ample opportunity to encounter cops who had applied excessive amounts of solvent/CLP and had managed to foul the firing pin channels of their issued S&W pistols. A significant number of them were discovered when the contamination reached the point where it would interfere with the firing pin's freedom of movement and result in light strikes during qualification courses of fire. A quick removal and cleaning of the firing pin & spring, and swabbing out the firing pin channel, resolved the light-strike issues in situations where it wasn't determined to be an ammunition (primer) issue.

The 6906 is an excellent compact, too. It was one of my favorite issued weapons for several years. I ran what I eventually estimated to be upwards of 45K rounds through one of the ones I carried. Good gun. I missed it when we went away from 9mm for duty use. I really ought to look for a LNIB late production example and pick it up someday, just to have one.

I hope you get the Sigma's back and find them up and running normally.

Best regards.

 

[YARDDOG]

I carry one (Sigma) 9C for 6 years not a problem sence the took the flat striker out &gave me a NEW barrel & Slide not a hiccup to date Y/D

 

[gatorhugger]

I carry one (Sigma) 9C for 6 years not a problem sence the took the flat striker out &gave me a NEW barrel & Slide not a hiccup to date Y/D

What issues were you having?

 

[Hawgleg44]

During the ammo drought, I bought 1000 rounds of Winchester White Box 147gr JHP for a class with Bruce Gray and Jerry Jones. All went well when I was using up some mixed ammo I had, but when I broke into the WWB ammo, the problems started. Let's just say I became a pro at malfunction drills. Constant light primer strikes. I was shooting a Glock 17 and figured it was a problem there. So, I grabbed my back up G17. Same issue. I borrowed a friend's G17, same thing. Now for Bruce's Sig P226, more primer problems. I tried the same ammo in a full-size HK USP and a S&W 5943 and had issues with both of them.

Winchester has had the ammo for over a month now for testing, but I have not heard back about the issue, or been paid for the ammo I sent, like the letter from them said I would be. We'll see.

 

[Erich]

Yeah, ask NKJNut about the complaints he's been hearing about Winchester primers over the last year or so . . . that sounds like some of the bad ones. I know there's been speculation around the web about what's going on with this, but I've heard a lot of complaints about Winchester primers of late.

Even stopped buying the WWB for the time being.

 

[conn ak]

Yeah, ask NKJNut about the complaints he's been hearing about Winchester primers over the last year or so . . . that sounds like some of the bad ones. I know there's been speculation around the web about what's going on with this, but I've heard a lot of complaints about Winchester primers of late.

Even stopped buying the WWB for the time being.

Well holy smokes...that might explain the 5 or 6 WWB rounds that failed to fire from my 639 last week. I've had the 639 since 1991 and have never had any issues with any type of ammo, including WWB. I bought a box of 50 WWB at Wally World last week for $10.97 I generally shoot reloads when plinking, but I shot a box of 9mm WWB. Of the 50 rounds, dead silence on 5 or 6 rounds. Nice dents in the primer as well. I shot 20 rounds of Golden Saber at the end of the day. 20 times the 639 went boom. I guess I'll have to hope the 400 rounds of 40 S&W WWB I've bought @ Wally doesn't have primer issues.

 

[Erich]

5 or 6 WWB rounds that failed to fire from my 639 last week. I've had the 639 since 1991 and have never had any issues with any type of ammo, including WWB.

Well . . . you know how those hammer-fired pistols can be . . .

 

[madmedic1955]

Nah, I thought it was a lube issue. If you read my original post.
I was using pure teflon, it's not lithium grease, it feels like butter. The most expensive lubricant in the world.
But I removed it all except for some on the trigger.
Those guns were screwing up with nothing but a few drops of Eezox oil.
That white you see is just some that was left over, the guns have no grease inside them at all.

I don't think I am being melodramatic at all.
I have defended Sigmas vigorously.
HOWEVER. What are the odds that I get 3 semi auto Polymer pistols
in ONE MONTH that need to go back to the shop? I would say slim to none if the design is good.
Note that the issues did not occur right away, it was around round 100 issues started.

I have read others ( and frankly discounted) reports of light primer strikes and FTE in both Glocks and Sigmas.
In fact I was reading( I have it at home on my favorites) a report from a police captain pulling all his Glocks for this reason.
The Glock reps coming to the states saying it was impossible, but leaving shaking their heads. These guns sound suspiciously just like my guns.

Just maybe there are a LOT of Sigma owners who never make it to round 200???
They shoot a box, like I did at first, put it away and never get to 200.
Or they shoot a box at a time and clean it well between use and never get malfunctions. Mine don't act up on the first box at all.
It's not really a "range" gun, so could be that case?
I don't know.

I do know I have two brand new sigmas doing the exact same thing, with different ammo, different mags, different lubes, and both are barely
hitting the primers.
Believe it or not, it's happened. That is either a design flaw or two bad runs of parts in guns bought from companies hundreds of miles apart.
I wouldn't have believed it if I didn't have the guns sitting in my
backseat either.
Either way, it ain't my fault, Smith produced a couple of lemons.

looks like I got a keeper yesterday , the allied just went thru 400 rnd of three diff. amo rnds this afternoon with out cleaning or greaseing no problems at all, except my tigger finger feels like it might need a big dose of that white grease oozing out from your triggers LOL good luck hope your turn into great shooters

 

[PDL]

Maybe I'm missing something. The OP says it's not a lubrication problem, but a bunch of folks are asking about white goo etc. and he talks about lubricating the rails with grease.
I don't have a 9VE, I've got a 40VE, but my book says 6 points of 'light' lubricating oil on page 22 of the owners pamphlet.