Boxer primed CCI Blazer

[David Sinko]

This morning at the range I found what I presume to be an aluminum .45 ACP CCI Blazer cartridge case, marked CCI and N R. But this one is Boxer primed and uses a small primer. Is this how all the Blazer is being loaded now? A new small primer fit snugly and I was able to flare the case mouth without splitting it. Can this stuff be safely reloaded? I can't be the only cheapskate out here who has considered this.

Dave Sinko

 

[dennis40x]

Blazer - Contact Us

 

[Rule3]

If it is Aluminum I would say NO to reloading it. If it is Nickle plated brass then probably with SPP. I also would think NR might stand for Not Re loadable.

As to the primer size a lot of the lead free Frangible loads are using Small pistol primers in the 45 ACP.

If in doubt, throw it out.

Nike, "Just say No"

 

[jimkim]

The newer Blazer ammo I've seen is loaded with boxer primers. The only way I would reload an aluminium case is in an extreme(as in night of the living dead extreme) emergency. I don't believe aluminium has the tensile strength to withstand resizing and repeated use.

 

[Amici]

The newer Blazer ammo I've seen is loaded with boxer primers. The only way I would reload an aluminium case is in an extreme(as in night of the living dead extreme) emergency. I don't believe aluminium has the tensile strength to withstand resizing and repeated use.

The original - i.e., aluminum - Blazer had a steel bar across the primer. Hence the use of Berdan primers.

The idea was to prevent people too obtuse to understand what "NOT RELOADABLE" meant from reusing the cases. Anyone trying to run such a case through a depriming die would snap the pin off.

 

[Jellybean]

Not knowing the meaning of the word "obtuse", I had done a lot of experiments on reloading blazer Al cases years ago.

The original - i.e., aluminum - Blazer had a steel bar across the primer. Hence the use of Berdan primers.

The idea was to prevent people too obtuse to understand what "NOT RELOADABLE" meant from reusing the cases. Anyone trying to run such a case through a depriming die would snap the pin off.

I'm afraid this isn't the case. A steel bar across a primer wouldn't prevent the use of boxer primers.Instead of using the 'anvil' like boxer primers, berdan cases have a post in the center of the primer pocket. There are two smaller flash holes in the primer pocket to the side of the the post. There was no real difference in the Blazer Al cases than in a regualr berdan primed case. The steel bar was apparently to give the post support. In fact the post might have been made out of steel itself, it's been a long time since I've looked at one of those. Anyhoo, anyone trying to run any berdan case through a depriming die would snap the decapping pin off.


Back to the original question. Yes they can be reloaded, but it isn't worth it, unless it's something you can't find easily. Aluminum isn't as ductile as the alloy used in "brass" cases. Firing and resizing them increases the chance of a case rupture to a great extent. Over 50% of the ones I reloaded ruptured on the first firing. A few lasted three reloads and were still alright, but that's when I stopped.

When you consider the number of times you can load a regular case, to the number of times you can reload an Al. case, you would actually be a cheaper cheapskate to invest in the regular cases and get a whole lot more use from them.

 

[Amici]

I'm afraid this isn't the case. A steel bar across a primer wouldn't prevent the use of boxer primers.

Really?

Then you've contradicted yourself:

Anyhoo, anyone trying to run any berdan case through a depriming die would snap the decapping pin off.

Which was, of course, precisely what I said.....

 

[Jellybean]

Amici, read those two statements you quoted again. They don't contradict each other at all. And no, it wasn't precisely what you said.

 

[Amici]

Amici, read those two statements you quoted again. They don't contradict each other at all. And no, it wasn't precisely what you said.

1. The bar prevents the primer being removed by a decapping tool (although I've heard hydraulic removal works). The object is to prevent the use of the case after the initial firing.

2. What I said:

"Anyone trying to run such a case through a depriming die would snap the pin off."

What YOU said:

"Anyhoo, anyone trying to run any berdan case through a depriming die would snap the decapping pin off."

Note the assertion common to both: That trying to deprime such a case with the standard, i.e. Boxer, depriming die "would snap the decapping pin off."

So - what's different?

 

[haggis]

Guys,

You've both made your points. We don't need this degenerating into a bitter semantics session with people getting mad. Just let it be.


Buck

 

[Jellybean]

haggis, no problem here, I'm not getting upset in the least, I think he misunderstood what I said. I've seen a few cheap shots at Amici and I don't approve of them anymore than you do. This isn't going there, I guarantee it.

Amici, The bar you are talking about has nothing to do with not running a decapping pin into the case. There is no hole under it where a standard flash hole would be on a boxer case. It is no more than a berdan primered case, they look just the same.

The bar doesn't prevent a new boxer primer from being seated into the primer pocket. A boxer primer must be modified to work, but the modification has nothing to do with the bar.

You are correct you can't run a decapping pin through it, but the bar has nothing to do with it. It's because it's a berdan case. To remove the primer you would simply use a berdan de-capper, or any of the techniques people use to remove them.

Berdan cases are quite common laying around the range and most reloaders know enough to check the case before they try to size and de-cap them. Many reloaders I see scrounging brass don't seem to understand that they are reloadable, and they will often throw perfectly good brass away.

 

[Amici]

Amici, The bar you are talking about has nothing to do with not running a decapping pin into the case. There is no hole under it where a standard flash hole would be on a boxer case. It is no more than a berdan primered case, they look just the same.

I beg to differ. I realize that there is no hole under the bar; it would not be a Berdan-primed case if it were. The idea behind Berdan priming, and the reason military cases often have it, is to virtually eliminate any possibility of the flash hole being blocked or blind. A blocked primer hole would, at the very least, result in a dud; more likely and more dangerous is the primer backing out from the unrelieved pressure and jamming the gun.

The two holes are each off-center of the axis of the case. This is why a boxer-style depriming die will not work or, if it does, ruin the case.

The bar doesn't prevent a new boxer primer from being seated into the primer pocket.

Agreed. However, before you can seat a new primer, the OLD primer must be removed.

A boxer primer must be modified to work, but the modification has nothing to do with the bar.

I am not aware that there are both boxer and Berdan PRIMERS; only that there are both boxer and Berdan CASES, the difference being one centered flash hole and two off-center ones above the primer pocket, respectively. Thus, if one successfully removes the primer from a Berdan-style case (usually hydraulically), one can reprime it in the usual manner.

It is to PREVENT that reuse that CCI put the bar across the base of its Blazer cases, so that people would not try to reload the one-use-only aluminum cases. Again, they are marked "NR" (Not Reloadable" for a reason.

Not trying to argue; simply to explain. I suspect we may be looking at the same issue from different ends of the telescope. However, there is far too much MISinformation on the web, as you know, and I did not want to add to that undesirable surplus.

 

[haggis]

There is a difference in the primers. Boxer primers have the anvil in the primer, and are inserted into the flat-bottomed pocket. Berdan primers have no anvil in the primer case - it's part of the primer pocket.

I don't know if the Blazer primers are true Berdan, or use a Boxer primer in a flat-bottomed primer pocket that has been made to prevent easy reloading of the cartridge. I guess I'll have to take one apart and see.

Berdan cases are not that hard to reload. I use hydraulic pressure to decap mine - a bit messy but effective. Repriming with Berdan primers is relatively easy, but finding the primers is difficult even when most primers are readily available.

Buck

Added: One interesting thing about Berdan cases - they were usually made with two flash holes supposedly for more reliable ignition. However, I have seen cases with one flash hole, so I don't know if this is right. I've also seen a few with three holes.

 

[Amici]

Interesting.

You would agree, however, that CCI's intent is to make it as difficult as possible for someone to reload any of its aluminum Blazer cases, I trust.

 

[haggis]

Definitely.

 

[Jellybean]

I'm glad we got over that hump.

Many countries outside the U.S. use Berdan priming, that's why it's in some military ammo. Berdan primers are confusing to us that aren't used to them, they come in various sizes and you have to know what you are looking for. Not to mention they are hard to come by because no one seems to want to carry them. At least this is what I was told when I tried to find some.

Haggis, This topic started with Blazers using boxer primers now. I have taken the older ones apart so you don't have to bother. They were berdan with the anvil being part of the case. The primer pockets were the same sizes as large and small boxer primers so all you had to do was remove the anvil from the boxer primers and they worked just fine. I didn't think CCI would go to too much trouble making an odd size of primer for the Blazer line.

Removing their primers were very simple, using the smallest screwdriver from a cheap "precision" set, put it in one of the holes in the bottom of the case and tap it with a hammer. I used the same screwdriver to de-anvil the boxer primers used for the reloads.

The only reason the bar is there, that I can think of right now, is to support the anvil built into the case. I'm trying to find one to double check, but haven't had any luck so far.

Back to the original question, although you can reload them, it doesn't really save you any money. Out of a box of fifty once fired cases you might only get 80-90 shots, if you're lucky. Compare that to a box of 50 once fired "reloadable" cases.