Model 27 no-dash

[312_Main]

Can you guys confirm that a no-dash 27 would be 1960 and prior? Factory nickel, cokes and serial # 80XXX.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Allen-frame]

Mike , a model 27 no dash would be in the serial # range from ,S182000 to S220000 or thereabouts. From 1958 to 1960-61. It would not have come from the factory with coke rosewood target stocks. Most all 27s of this era came with diamond magna grips numbered to the gun.

A factory nickel gun will almost always have an N stamped under the grips or on the rear of the cylinder.

Good luck ,,Allen

 

[Model25Man]

I believe S80xxx would be 1950-51.

 

[Gun 4 Fun]

I believe S80xxx would be 1950-51.

That would make it a pre 27. The OP said he has a 27 no dash. They didn't start model marking them until 1957.

 

[312_Main]

Ok now I'm really intrigued. I'm looking at buying the revolver I described through another forum. I'll have to check further. I'll post a pic or two after I upload some from the other forum.

Mike

 

[312_Main]

Here's a few pics. Comments? I've asked him for the full serial #. I see a mark on the rear of the cylinder that might be an N. I wouldn't have thought they would have a red insert on the front ramp sight then so I guess it's up to you....

 

[Bullseye 2620]

This is a really interesting pre-Model 27, if indeed the serial number is S88xxx. Apparently some guns of this vintage did have cokes. David Carroll has one right now, though in blue, 6-1/2", s/n S99xxx that has cokes.

The other thing about this gun that strikes me as unusual is the red ramp front sight, since it is my understanding from several of the experienced collectors here that in lengths of 6 inches and longer, these guns almost always came with Patridge front sights. I just bought a 27-2 6-1/2 inch in this configuration and like it a lot. Mine is much later production, S268xxx, but nonetheless, the red ramp is unusual on barrels of this length (see attached photo).

I'd buy this gun. If for any reason you decide not to go ahead with the purchase, please let me know and I will be happy to take it.

Please confirm the barrel length for me, if you would. I can't quite tell if what you're looking at is a 6 or 6-1/2" gun.


Bullseye

 

[312_Main]

I just noticed the right target size stock covers up part of the S&W logo. I wonder if it originally came with the smaller stocks?

 

[Bullseye 2620]

If you'll notice on the photo I sent you in the previous post, the walnut diamond targets that were factory installed on my gun also cover a small portion of the S&W logo. The magnas, of course, do not. The only way I know of to determine whether the targets on your gun are original is to request a letter from the factory. It strikes me that the grips on the pistol you have shown are walnut diamond targets, not cokes, but there are many people on here more qualified than I to make that call.

Hope this helps.


Bullseye

 

[312_Main]

If you'll notice on the photo I sent you in the previous post, the walnut diamond targets that were factory installed on my gun also cover a small portion of the S&W logo. The magnas, of course, do not. The only way I know of to determine whether the targets on your gun are original is to request a letter from the factory. It strikes me that the grips on the pistol you have shown are walnut diamond targets, not cokes, but there are many people on here more qualified than I to make that call.

Hope this helps.


Bullseye

You are correct. It's my inexperience that led me to think they were cokes. What do you make of the extra screw on the right side near the rear sight? Does that place it in a certain era I wonder?

 

[wraco]

I saw the gun as well, when I got home from work. A tad pricey, but looks good in the pictures. I bought a pre-27, 99%, from the same forum for $750 shipped. He says there's some normal wear on the nickel, you may want to find out how much wear.

Rod

 

[312_Main]

I saw the gun as well, when I got home from work. A tad pricey, but looks good in the pictures. I bought a pre-27, 99%, from the same forum for $750 shipped. He says there's some normal wear on the nickel, you may want to find out how much wear.

Rod

Hey Rod,
Does that look similar to the pre 27 you bought?

 

[H Richard]

I can tell you that Pre27 S/N S9958X was shipped Sept 1953. So the est of 50-51 should be correct. The grips are not Cokes, but non-relieved targets. The grips alone are worth in the $200- $250 range, not as much as cokes, but still valuable. I'm not sure on the front sight. In this time frame, S&W would put on any sight available as a special order, red ramp could have been added later.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

The "extra" screw at the top of the side plate means that this gun is either a 4- or 5-screw N frame. If there is a screw in the top front outside of the trigger guard it is a 5-screw (older). I do not know when the transition from 5- to 4-screw frames took place, but there are other members who do.

You might PM members Wordsmith and Handejector. They are both dealers and may be able to provide you with some more information. Also, Doc44 was very helpful to me in identifying the unusual red ramp sight variation on the Model 27-2 that I posted a photo of for you earlier. H Richard is quite correct that in the era your gun was built, it was possible to order sights and grips exactly to customer specifications, so it is possible to find a gun that normally would have had target sights with the red ramp configuration. I think both yours and mine are examples of this. When I receive the factory letter on my gun, which asked for an explanation of this, I will post it.

This board is chock full of very knowledgeable people who are willing to share what they know. Good luck, and let us know if you buy this piece.


Bullseye

 

[wraco]

Hey Rod,
Does that look similar to the pre 27 you bought?

Yes, it does look similar, only mine has a partridge front sight. I also have a M27 no dash that has the red ramp sight that the previous owner installed and lost the partridge sight.

My pre-M27 had gone through 3 weekly bumps before I bought it. I paid the asking price. There's barely a turn line visible and no bluing wear. The fellow I bought it from, had it for over 20 years and never fired it. What I found amazing is, it sat for over 3 to 4 weeks without selling, when plastic Glocks and other plastic semi-autos sold right off. The seller said he had only one offer that was a low ball. Hard to figure.

Rod

 

[JSR III]

Very nice looking pre model 27. This gun should not be model marked as it still has the upper sideplate screw. That screw was eliminated in 1956 and the guns were model marked in 1957. There are 3 visible screws on the sideplate, one under the stocks and one in the front of the trigger guard, making this a 5 screw varation. S 80XXX should make this a 1951 era pre 27. Should have come with checked walnut stocks or traget stocks in 1954. Hope that helps.

 

[JSR III]

PS: Red ramp sights were available as early as 1935 as S&W was putting them on registered magnums. The sights were provided by the King Gun Sight company. They were not listed in the S&W catalogs until sometime in the 50's I believe.

 

[s&wchad]

...not model marked, not # S80XXX, not Cokes, but nice!

I looked your photos over closely. The mark you see on the back of the cylinder is an “S”, which is the prefix of the serial number. If you look between the next two charge holes clockwise (close to the outside edge), you’ll see the rest of the number. I see six digits starting with a “1” (it appears to be S12X,4X7 which is mid-1950's). That vintage gun had the serial number on the butt (which is covered by the non-relieved target stocks), in the barrel shroud, on the back of the cylinder, on the back of the yoke (partly visible thru the charge holes) and under the extractor. As you’ve already been advised, it’s a 5-screw postwar .357 Magnum and it’s too early to be model marked. The nickel appears to be factory and it looks pretty nice from the poor photos!

For comparative purposes (and to show off a little ), here’s a factory nickel Model 27 wearing Cokes (non-original to the gun). Note the absence of the large upper side plate screw (discontinued in 1956), which makes this a 4-screw frame. By the time S&W assigned Model numbers in 1957, they had pretty much stopped stamping the serial number on the cylinder, barrel and yoke.

 

[lowriderfxr]

The "extra" screw at the top of the side plate means that this gun is either a 4- or 5-screw N frame. If there is a screw in the top front outside of the trigger guard it is a 5-screw (older). I do not know when the transition from 5- to 4-screw frames took place, but there are other members who do.

You might PM members Wordsmith and Handejector. They are both dealers and may be able to provide you with some more information. Also, Doc44 was very helpful to me in identifying the unusual red ramp sight variation on the Model 27-2 that I posted a photo of for you earlier. H Richard is quite correct that in the era your gun was built, it was possible to order sights and grips exactly to customer specifications, so it is possible to find a gun that normally would have had target sights with the red ramp configuration. I think both yours and mine are examples of this. When I receive the factory letter on my gun, which asked for an explanation of this, I will post it.

This board is chock full of very knowledgeable people who are willing to share what they know. Good luck, and let us know if you buy this piece.


Bullseye

Bullseye,
With the exception of some very recent "classic" S&W revolvers, all 5 screw revolvers have the upper side plate screw and all 4 screw revolvers have the trigger guard screw. In other words if the upper sideplate screw is there, the trigger guard screw will be there.

The way to check this is, on an older revolver if it has the upper side plate screw, it's a 5 screw, if not check the front of the trigger guard, if there is one there, it's a 4 screw, if not it's a 3 screw. No need to count them, just follow this simple rule and you can't go wrong.

These rules apply to older N and K frames, not necessarily J frames.

 

[Bullseye 2620]

Bullseye,
With the exception of some very recent "classic" S&W revolvers, all 5 screw revolvers have the upper side plate screw and all 4 screw revolvers have the trigger guard screw. In other words if the upper sideplate screw is there, the trigger guard screw will be there.

The way to check this is, on an older revolver if it has the upper side plate screw, it's a 5 screw, if not check the front of the trigger guard, if there is one there, it's a 4 screw, if not it's a 3 screw. No need to count them, just follow this simple rule and you can't go wrong.

These rules apply to older N and K frames, not necessarily J frames.

Thanks lowriderfxr! I'm learning about these great revolvers thanks to good folks like you.


Bullseye