Self defense ammo for a model 19
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ArchAngelCD
Moderator, SWCA Member, Absent Comrade
I like the "FBI Load" in a defensive revolver. It's not the hottest out there but it is time tested and reliable. My favorite in a 2" revolver is Remington R38S12 but in a 4" revolver the Remington along with the current offerings from Winchester and Federal all work very well.
There are a lot of "new and better" loads out there but they will also cost you over $1 a round. They will provide you with a little extra velocity and not much else in the way of performance, IMO of course...
There are a lot of "new and better" loads out there but they will also cost you over $1 a round. They will provide you with a little extra velocity and not much else in the way of performance, IMO of course...
BreakerDan
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In home: Remington 38+P 158 gr lead hollowpoint "FBI Load" or Federal 38 +P+ 147 Hydras. Both loads were issued by the FBI and they were good loads. These are the only 38s I will use.
On the street: 357 Magnum Winchester SuperX 145 gr Silvertip or Federal 158 gr Hydras.
On the street: 357 Magnum Winchester SuperX 145 gr Silvertip or Federal 158 gr Hydras.
I suggest you try CCI Blazer .357 mag 158gr aluminum cased. I am using them in my SP101, M66 3in, and M65 3in. Lower recoil, flash, and noise levels. Listed at 1150 fps from a 4in. My opinion is worth what it costs.
HUMONGO
Member
The problem I have always had wih aluminum cased rounds is that if you ever need a quick reload, you're screwed.
The aluminum cases expand more in the chamber and are considerably more difficult to eject from the cylinder than fired brass cases. YMMV
RedBerens
Member
I think the best 38 Special round is the +P 158gr lead semi-wadcutter hollow point from Buffalo Bore. While the Remington and Winchester versions only do 850+ feet per second, it's rated at 1000 feet per second, and hits harder than the Speer 135gr short barrel Gold Dot magnum load.
Steve C
Member
The 158gr LSWCHP in .38 spl is one of the better loads with time proven effectiveness in 4" revolvers. It is however only a .38 spl and pales against the .357 mag. 158gr jacketed hollow point bullets can not be driven fast enough from a .38 spl to reliably expand so they effectively act like a solid bullet with no greater effectivness.
If you are worried about penetrating walls, bullets from the .38 will go through sheet rock and wood stud with ease. If you don't want bullets to go through walls you need to live in a masonary constructied house, preferably red brick.
If you want something milder than a full .357 mag load for self defense then IMO the Remington .357 mag Golden Saber 125gr ammo is at the top of the list. Running at at a medium velocity of 1,220 fps from a 4" revolver it certainly beats the effectiveness of any .38 spl load.
I personlally keep my .357's loaded with either Speer Gold dot 125gr or Remington Golden Sabers.
Two affordable and readily available options for indoors: 1) The Winchester white box 125 gr. .38 +P sold at Wal mart - basically the same as the Silvertip. 2) Magtech 158 grain HP available at Midway - if you can get them, they run out almost as soon as they get them. Do NOT use Magnums indoors - the noise and muzzle flash will probably do more harm to you than the intruder.
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Shot placement is #1. Any load is crap if you miss, or get a marginal hit.
Adequate penetration is #2. You want 10-12" of penetration potential. Any decent +P load will give you the ballpark of that from a 4". You do not want to count on hollow point expansion for any self defense load. It's nice but you don't want to count on it.
Everything else is a distant, almost academic #3.
Having said that I prefer the FBI load. It has a long track record. Silvertips are not too shabby either.
Adequate penetration is #2. You want 10-12" of penetration potential. Any decent +P load will give you the ballpark of that from a 4". You do not want to count on hollow point expansion for any self defense load. It's nice but you don't want to count on it.
Everything else is a distant, almost academic #3.
Having said that I prefer the FBI load. It has a long track record. Silvertips are not too shabby either.
Mr Jwist, it all depends on where you live and what the members of your household are comprised of. Despite the advise of all the enlightened people on this forum you need to look at your own circumstances. Do you live in a house, an apartment, kids, spouse, neighbors how far, town, country, ect? Each presents its own advantages and disavantages. Over penitration is a big concern and liability. If you live in an apartment or other structure where over penitration is a big big concern consider Glasure Saftey Slugs or something close to it. Even non +P 38's will go through several layers of drywall. May I suggest reading Massad Ayyob's book "In the Gravest Extreme." It was so full of real life information it was unreal. His knowledge and expertise are uncomparable. A trial for a justifible homicide case will probably cost you around 150,000.00 to 200,000.00 now. How do I know this? Lets just say its good to be alive. Good luck in your selection. Here's hoping that you never have to find out if your load works.
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flop-shank
US Veteran
Use what you would on the street and practice a ton. Accurate gunfire is the way to minimize overpenetration issues.
Glasers are spotty performers and crazy expensive.
In .38 +P, the FBI load is great. The bullets pulled from Michael Platt and William Matix's bodys (1986 Miami shootout) were all badly deformed). I'm not sure which brand the FBI guys were using, but I intend to find out. Even from a 2" gun, the FBI load and soft lead jacketed bullets such as Remington's 158 gr. SJHP should be pretty reliable expanders. DPX is almost as certain as death and taxes.
I once touched off a super hot .44 magnum handload in a small room and made the mistake of not having hearing protection on. My hearing survived. One of my best friends spent a year in combat in Iraq. He was involved in numerous gunfights inside concrete buildings using short barreled M-16s. He has hearing damage, but not as bad as one would think. While preserving one's hearing is prudent, when the chips are down I'll take a hard shooting gun everytime. Iggy, who posts on this forum has hearing damage after more than one indoor gunfight using a .41 magnum. To each their own on that one.
If you can handle the recoil, run full power .357s. I'd run Silvertips, or try Corbon 140 gr. JHP .357s in a K frame.
The suggestion of using Golden Sabre .357s was excellent and I would also consider Speer 135 gr. Short Barrel .357s as a mid power load.
Glasers are spotty performers and crazy expensive.
In .38 +P, the FBI load is great. The bullets pulled from Michael Platt and William Matix's bodys (1986 Miami shootout) were all badly deformed). I'm not sure which brand the FBI guys were using, but I intend to find out. Even from a 2" gun, the FBI load and soft lead jacketed bullets such as Remington's 158 gr. SJHP should be pretty reliable expanders. DPX is almost as certain as death and taxes.
I once touched off a super hot .44 magnum handload in a small room and made the mistake of not having hearing protection on. My hearing survived. One of my best friends spent a year in combat in Iraq. He was involved in numerous gunfights inside concrete buildings using short barreled M-16s. He has hearing damage, but not as bad as one would think. While preserving one's hearing is prudent, when the chips are down I'll take a hard shooting gun everytime. Iggy, who posts on this forum has hearing damage after more than one indoor gunfight using a .41 magnum. To each their own on that one.
If you can handle the recoil, run full power .357s. I'd run Silvertips, or try Corbon 140 gr. JHP .357s in a K frame.
The suggestion of using Golden Sabre .357s was excellent and I would also consider Speer 135 gr. Short Barrel .357s as a mid power load.
Thanks for all the replys, I live in a typical track home with chalkboard walls ect. The reason I do not want to shoot magnum rounds especially 125 grain loads is that I have heard extended use of the 125 grainers will crack the forcing cone, I am not sure how true this is my dad is a retired police officer and he told me that the model 19 with the 125 grain loads were the cop gun/load of choice and he never saw a problem with them and they use to qualify with their duty loads twice a year. So I am not sure what to load, I do practice alot (at least 2 or 3 times a month S&Ws are kind of addicting that way you can never get enough) so I can hit what I aim at. I like the idea of the 125 grain Remington golden saber round and the Bufflo bore 158 grain round. Will the BB round cause leading in the barrel being driven that hard?
Thanks again
Thanks again
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Ammo
I strongly endorse the recommendation to read Mr. Ayoob's material on this subject. He is an outstanding authority, and writes excellent prose; clear and easy to read. Also, the comment about muzzle flash is relevant. You did not mention your barrel length, so please note that muzzle flash is more significant in shorter barrels. There is ammunition specifically designed for snubs. Another thought: find out what ammunition is used by your local police, buy it, and practice with it. Your defense lawyer will love you for that choice if you ever have to go to court. Do not use handloads for anything other than practice. (Can't find primers now anyway!)
I strongly endorse the recommendation to read Mr. Ayoob's material on this subject. He is an outstanding authority, and writes excellent prose; clear and easy to read. Also, the comment about muzzle flash is relevant. You did not mention your barrel length, so please note that muzzle flash is more significant in shorter barrels. There is ammunition specifically designed for snubs. Another thought: find out what ammunition is used by your local police, buy it, and practice with it. Your defense lawyer will love you for that choice if you ever have to go to court. Do not use handloads for anything other than practice. (Can't find primers now anyway!)
aterry33
Member
+ 1 on the FBI load, Remington makes a good one. I believe that the FBI agents in the Miami shootout were using Winchester, but I'm not sure.
I have always felt and still feel that a good .38 special load is all a civilian needs. It will take down the bad guy without the recoil, flash, and noise of a .357 Magnum, which was originally implemented to shoot through heavy steel car frames and body armor. Law enforcement officers are involved in more offensive operations like shooting at people in cars and those wearing body armor, where magnum rounds and the .40S&W, .357 SIG, etc. come in handy. But keep in mind that LEOs also have legal immunity if the bullet goes through a car or wall and hits a bystander--civilians don't. Not to say that a .38 Special can't penetrate, of course, because it can. But all things considered, I have always liked .38 Specials for civilian self-defense. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and opinions are like you-know-whats...
Also, +1 on Ayoob, he knows his stuff.
I have always felt and still feel that a good .38 special load is all a civilian needs. It will take down the bad guy without the recoil, flash, and noise of a .357 Magnum, which was originally implemented to shoot through heavy steel car frames and body armor. Law enforcement officers are involved in more offensive operations like shooting at people in cars and those wearing body armor, where magnum rounds and the .40S&W, .357 SIG, etc. come in handy. But keep in mind that LEOs also have legal immunity if the bullet goes through a car or wall and hits a bystander--civilians don't. Not to say that a .38 Special can't penetrate, of course, because it can. But all things considered, I have always liked .38 Specials for civilian self-defense. Keep in mind this is just my opinion and opinions are like you-know-whats...
Also, +1 on Ayoob, he knows his stuff.
BreakerDan
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According to the FBI reports I read, they were all using Winchester ammo for the FBI revolvers in 86.
flop-shank
US Veteran
Thanks for the replies regarding the FBI load guys.
RedBerens
Member
Not any worse than other factory rounds. Buffalo Bore uses a gas check which stops most of the leading.
