Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert

Now Mexico has issued a travel wraning to its citizens concerning ravellinginto Arizona. Am I the only one who sees the irony in this?

Yes the Mexican government warns Nationals to carry documents or they may be harassed.

The US government warning to US travelers to Mexico. Bring lots of cash for bribes, and/or you may be kidnapped, and /or murdered.

I just don't get it.
 
I just occured to me that Arizona has an "identification" law on the books from a ways back. I'm researching it now.

Watched a news channel this afternoon with a well-known journalist with the initials "G. B." I don't always agree with him, but man, he was spot on!

He had some quote and videos of left-falling politicos that slammed peacful "tea party" demonstrations as anarchy, but down-played the "riot" @ the AZ state capitol building. (video show LEOs getting hit on the head/helmet with thrown, glass bottles!)

Leftist goof in Ill. equated AZ immigration law to nazi germany's, anti-Jew roundups and a police state, but then called for the Ill. National Guard to take to the streets due to high crime. Go figure!

The Speaker of the House was on video decrying nazi symbolism during the past, but said not a word about those written in refried beans on AZ state building windows. CRAZY!

(I'M NOT PARANOID BUT THEY'RE STILL THERE!)
 
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well, now things are getting serious. The city of San Francisco has banned city workers from travelling to Arizona for official travel.

"San Francisco Mayor Gavin Newsom announced today a moratorium on official city travel to Arizona after the state enacted a controversial new immigration law that directs local police to arrest those suspected of being in the country illegally."

Now, I know you folks down in the hot AZ are crushed, but once the re-educaiton camps adjust your thinking, I am sure the great employees of the city of San Francisco will gladly allow you to host them again. :D
 
You can't make sense out of nonsense. What is there to be afraid of by requiring "paper" identification. I've had it all my life. A birth certificate, innoculation record, drivers license, ccw, the list goes on. If the people in question can't provide the normally accepted proof of place of birth, nationality, legal entry papers, natralization papers then ship their tails back. It don't take a genious or above average intellect to accomplish this! Freaking hand wringing ain't gonna get it done either. What's the problem here??? How many more people have to come into this country illegally before we demand an end.

(sarcasm) What's there to be afraid of with regard to gun registration? You have to register your car, your boat, your motorcycle, your marriages, your divorces, the birth of your children, etc. Anyone who doesn't want to comply with gun registration must be a criminal, as they're the only ones who have anything to fear from it. How many people have to be victimized by guns before we demand something be done? (/sarcasm)

FWIW, I agree with you wholeheartedly about doing something about illegal immigration; it's a national security issue, if nothing else. But we need to be careful whose rights we're willing to tromp on; we could be next.
 
I'm in the northeast. The town I grew up in has been completely changed by illegal immigrants - I had to sell my house and move because of the cultural changes and to get my children away from the animals that moved in next door to me. .... This has had an effect on the whole country and needs to be stopped.


Interesting discussion to say the least.
There are a lot of fine honest people coming up here to try to make a living and give their children a chance at a better life. Are they going about it the wrong way? You bet they are. The paper work and time involved to cross legally is very time consuming and expensive. But faced with the same prospects we would be doing the same for our children if going to Canada was a better life than what we could earn here. Is there an easy answer? From the discussion here and out there no there is no easy answer.

Those in the Northern, Eastern and Mid West states who want to send in the military and let God sort out the rest obviously have never lived among the people in question. For one thing the violence advocated is way out of line, we are Americans (we pride ourselves as being the good guys) and have never as a people condoned the killing of innocents or potentially guilty for any reason especially because they were crossing illegally. How do you separate the criminal from the illegal immigrant during a field interview or at a hundred meters through a rifle scope? Yes, there are some gimme's like possession of a weapon or narcotics but for the most part how do you tell?
Those working the border have a hard job to do and my hat is off to you for doing your best.

How would a land mine know the difference? People are still tripping mines in Vietnam left over from our time there. On U.S. soil?

It would make sense to Micro Chip each and every convicted felon and use a portable scanner for an instant read out. The technology is there.

Please don't take me for a 'bleeding heart liberal'. I am anything but that. I am surely not 'Politically Correct'. I spent a good portion of my adult life as an LEO here in Central California dealing with illegals who were either Criminal or Victim. I've had a first hand view of the good side and the bad side of these people so it's hard to subscribe to a blanket treatment of all illegals.

Quote: What we need is another "Black Jack Pershing" down there for a year or so.

All Pershing did was stir up a lot of dust, get lost and spend lots of money. He didn't catch anyone, shot at a few people and went home hot and dirty.

That's my two cents. If you don't agree please refund my money.
 
Just a thought, if my home alarm went off and the police showed up and found someone in my home, would it not be legal for them to ask the person they found in the home if they were the legal home owner ? I would hope they would.

If it were me, I would NOT be offended.

Well, IMO, this country is my home and the boarders are the doors. If your in my home illegally, (having already broke the law), I want you in jail, processed and deported.

Amen and God Bless America !
 
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Let me pull the pin of the grenade and roll this into the room!


Here is a fix - but this century is way to weak to consider it: Open both borders, North and South. Welcome to the United States of North America. Issue Social Security Cards as far north as the Arctic Circle and south to the Panama Canal. Let them all start paying taxes as citizens. Most of our manufacturing is down south anyway.

After all, aren't we heading for one big global social society anyway???


Because the minute you do that, they become "legal" workers and you have to pay them union wages...no more cheap labor that can be abused like slaves from Africa.
 
Whos rights are going to get tromped on?
The illegals right to be in our country illegally?

You missed the point entirely. It's the rights of those of us who are here *legally* that I'm concerned about.

I am at absolutely no risk here; I'm a white male, and I am unaware of any ancestor who arrived here after colonial times. But I do have freedoms that I hold dear, and I'm not eager to encroach on the liberty of others.
 
You missed the point entirely. It's the rights of those of us who are here *legally* that I'm concerned about.

I am at absolutely no risk here; I'm a white male, and I am unaware of any ancestor who arrived here after colonial times. But I do have freedoms that I hold dear, and I'm not eager to encroach on the liberty of others.

Yes ... some of them are naturalized and cannot modify their appearance. for every one that has gone through the proper channels to be here, there are untold numbers more who have not.
AZ is in a crisis due to the strong armed thugs that are coming along with the innocents.
those thugs are on a crime spree robbing, raping, murdering, kidnapping, extorting, and all other manor of illegal activity. The whole crisis gets swept under the rug and buried under 32 pages of something stupid Kanye West or Paris Hilton did this week.
like anyone else that had to put up with anything like it, the people of AZ just want the madness to stop.
There is no known elegant solution for this now, or in the whole of history.
In lieu of a perfect answer, unsavory ones are whats left. Will innocents get pinched by it? you can bet on it. Will it quell the crisis? I wouldn't bet on it, but its odds are certainly better than the absolute goose egg of the status quo.
 
First, Arizona requires (and always has) proof of US Citizenship to obtain a drivers license (there 10-11 states that do not, including New Mexico), so if you are stop for some reason and show them and Arizona DL you have no problem. NM license and don't speak english, you could have a problem.

For all those that don't agree with Arizona's new law, I have an idea. Leave all your I.D. home and take a trip to Mexico and maybe try and get a job. Think you might end up in a Mexican jail?? Their jails aren't near as nice as ours.
 
"How do you separate the criminal from the illegal immigrant during a field interview or at a hundred meters through a rifle scope? Yes, there are some gimme's like possession of a weapon or narcotics but for the most part how do you tell?"

4330Inroute: You just don't get it. An illegal immigrant IS a criminal. What part of illegal do you not comprehend? I don't condone violence against these folks but they cannot be permitted to come here illegally. The fact that many are hard core career criminals looking for easy pickings only exacerbates an already bad situation. Try sneaking into just about any other civilized country on earth. You will not be treated to any of the comforts and courtesy we afford illegals here. The US is the laughing stock of the world on this issue and it is high time we stepped up and started acting like a sovereign nation, willing and capable of securing our borders.

I do get it. My rant is the randomness of the violence directed indiscriminately without the due process of law. I don't want these people here. I've watched my tax money go to these people and it makes me ill to think about it. My favorite bumper sticker is one that reads 'Welcome to California-Now Go HOME!!!'

I was referring to the individuals who are preaching violence towards anyone and everyone who is crossing the border. I know it is a crime and they are criminals for violating our laws. I was addressing the comments made by others in the forum in regards to taking individuals out and let God sort them out. Not the entire problem. I am not in favor of any specialized treatment of any detainee/illegal/criminal or what ever you want to call them.

I have seen them (the illegals/immigrants/refugees from Mexico, El Salvador, Honduras, China, Peru, Nicaragua, Cuba etc. - we have the densest population of central americans anywhere in the US) come into my community and receive services i.e. food stamps medical care, housing, jobs, free food, free this and free that. The locals that are born and raised here are denied these same services because it's earmarked for the poor immigrant. Try being between 18 and 65 years of age Caucasian with Cancer in California and asking for help with medical bills, medicine and money to live on. It's not there for you! The state will tell you that you don't qualify. Poor my )&& these people are playing on the sympathies of the bleeding hearts (for lack of a better term) and collecting more money from welfare, unemployment, illegal tax refunds (claiming all seven kids and none live here in the state) and cash only jobs than the locals can bring home holding a 40+ work week. They bring grandma and grandpa here to draw medi-cal and medi-care and who have never worked a day of their lives on US soil to earn the right. I've even seen them take the identity of a deceased relative who was here legally to collect social security.

You want to talk about criminals. I worked warrants to where we worked with other agencies and tracked people wanted for homocide and other high crimes across the state and did our best to bring them in to face the judicial system. Do you think it's not frustrating chasing the rapist of an 8 year old girl only to lose him at the border knowing you can't go after him and bring him back? We were on him and he ran the border crossing. Or to apprehend a killer who made a hit on a seemingly peaceful family man only to have him turned over to a Central American Embassy Employee because this guy has diplomatic immunity. Or have these people disappear only to surface with a new name and identity doing the same stuff over and over again. I've seen people turned over to INS and deported only to return before my paper work was done.

Yeah, I get it! Only too well.
 
You know I got to thinking about my last post on this issue. It got my blood pressure up and my heart rate going pretty good there. Politics and political issues are better left those who are wiser than me. If I have offended anyone, then I'm sorry. I'm going back to the other parts of this great forum to do what I joined for; to learn more about my Smith and Wesson handguns and read the advise of experts on repair and other firearm related problems. I've learned a lot there. I especially like the pictures everyone posts.
TTFN
 
Good job to Arizona for doing what the feds wont. Since tax day has passed, it might be of interest to note the amount of tax dollars going out to people from the south. You can probably guess where I work. We see ID theft on the rise. Someone steals your SSN works under it, applies for a refund and gets it, then you try to file and now its your problem. Your return wont go through electrically so you have to mail it in. Then you wait and wait for that letter to arrive letting you know we need more information. Or better yet, you file every year, pay your taxes then get a letter that you owe back taxes for wages not reported on your taxes. Yep, id theft again, now you have to prove it wasnt you that earned those wages. There are people who have not set foot here applying for ITIN numbers and having workers here claim them as dependents. Under 17 each one is good for $1000.00 in additional child tax credit.

As several other posts show the problem isn't just crime (yes I know that being here is a crime), its that plus the load on health care, the load on jail and prisons, the load on social services, and list goes on.
 
Put the shoe on the other foot...

Imagine this scenario. Let's say you wanted to move to Mexico, and do it illegally (bear with me on this). Here's a note you might want to pass on to our President before you do:

Dear President Obama:

I'm planning to move my family and extended family into Mexico for my health, and I would like to ask you to assist me.

We're planning to simply walk across the border from the U.S. Into Mexico, and we'll need your help to make a few arrangements.

We plan to skip all the legal stuff like visas, passports, immigration quotas and laws.

I'm sure they handle those things the same way you do here. So, would you mind telling your buddy, President Calderon, that I'm on my way over?

Please let him know that I will be expecting the following:

1. Free medical care for my entire family.

2. English-speaking government bureaucrats for all services I might need, whether I use them or not.

3. Please print all Mexican government forms in English.

4. I want my grandkids to be taught Spanish by English-speaking (bi-lingual) teachers.

5. Tell their schools they need to include classes on American culture and history.

6. I want my grandkids to see the American flag on one of the flag poles at their school.

7. Please plan to feed my grand kids at school for both breakfast and lunch.

8. I will need a local Mexican driver's license so I can get easy access to government services.

9. I do plan to get a car and drive in Mexico , but, I don't plan to purchase car insurance, and I probably won't make any special effort to learn local traffic laws.

10. In case one of the Mexican police officers does not get the memo from their president to leave me alone, please be sure that every patrol car has at least one English-speaking officer.

11. I plan to fly the U.S. Flag from my house top, put U S. Flag decals on my car, and have a gigantic celebration on July 4th. I do not want any complaints or negative comments from the locals.

12. I would also like to have a nice job without paying any taxes, or have any labor or tax laws enforced on any business I may start.

13. Please have the president tell all the Mexican people to be extremely nice and never say critical things about me or my family, or about the strain we might place on their economy.

14. I want to receive free food stamps.

15. Naturally, I'll expect free rent subsidies.

16. I'll need Income tax credits so although I don't pay Mexican Taxes, I'll receive money from the government.

17. Please arrange it so that the Mexican Gov't pays $4,500 to help me buy a new car.

18. Oh yes, I almost forgot, please enroll me free into the Mexican Social Security program so that I'll get a monthly income in retirement.

I know this is an easy request because you already do all these things for all his people who walk over to the U.S. From Mexico . I am sure that President Calderon won't mind returning the favor if you ask him nicely.

Thank you so much for your kind help. You're the man!!!


Maybe this little hypothetical scenario will help to clarify what's going on here in Arizona and elsewhere in our country.

But this scenario will never come to pass. Let's look at Mexico's laws:

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=36735

President Calderon: We're calling you out. You are a hypocrite.

And the media can't understand why Arizonans are fed up to here.
 
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P85020-You are on the front lines.Your post is spot on!When i retired i picked my choice of Arizona or Oregon.I chose Oregon because it was closer to northern Ca.which is where i moved from.
 
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...and the beat goes on. Our ex-presidential candidate says he now has a plan, now that he is running for re-election, that he says will work. Question: Where ya been all this time, Juan?
 
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