Am I missing missing the mexican boat here? DEPUTY SHOT in Desert

jrm53 said:
If the IDIOTS in DC dont fix this I predict that pretty soon those folks in Arizona are going to handle it the way they did in the late 1800's and it wont take to long before they will cross in Ca. or N.M. ot Tx. but not Az. Jeff
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Yup ... thats the last play of the game ... but it is debatable whether it will be the legitimate citizens or the illegals who will do all the handling.

any time you have a cultural difference of this magnitude you have two sided who ultimately want it entirely their way. We have seen that there isnt any real mid ground. all it takes is one person of influence within either group to drop the hammer and we have something nasty to put in the history books after that side gets it the way they want it.
 
In my original post on this thread, I said that this legislation might best be judged by its organized opposition, including lunatic fringe leftists, religious leaders who represent illegal aliens, and apologists for criminals, posing as "rights" activists. Since then, I see that the "Reverend" (revered by whom?) Al Sharpton has threatened to come to Arizona to rouse rabble in street protests. I rest my case.
 
What Flyfisherman said about amnesty and a one party state is right on. The party that preaches entitlement is always looking for more "victims" to champion.

Out
West
 
Non-federal law enforcement officers are prohibited by federal courts from independently enforcing federal law - especially immigration law.

If non-federal LEOs find an illegal alien, they cannot arrest them or hold them unless they have a state charge to file. Do you know how few Border Patrolmen there are that are more than 100 miles from the border? - I don't either, but it is "darned few."

Sheriff Joe tried to get his officers trained and deputized by the Border Patrol and that fell through.

Now AZ has a state law they can enforce without the permission of the feds. If they find an illegal alien, they can lock them up and hold them legally. I don't think AZ can "deport" anyone, but they can jail them.

Remember come November!
 
Joe Arizona Officer pulls a car over for a non operating left brake light. There is a driver and three passengers. The driver has no ID. She can offer no verifiable name and address. No current car registration. Car last registered in AZ to John Smith not reported stolen. She says a friend, Fred, (only knows first name) let her borrow the car. She looks to be of legal age to operate a vehicle. She does not appear to be intoxicated or otherwise impaired. Two of the passengers look to be under 10 years of age. One passenger looks to be an adult and is sleeping.

Where does the new law kick in, and what does the officer do now that he would not have done before?
 
Sharpton, Calderon, people from out of state, and whomever are crying foul and urge peacful protest and boycotts. (Calderon made a statement in an Arizona Republic Newspaper article) Calderone is a piece of work at the very least!

I say boycott them, especially Mexico. I used to vacation there ALOT, but haven't for years.

Boycott anyone and anything that supports and hires any individuals in this country illegally. DC are you listening? If you did your job, this would not be an issue.

Get out of people's private lives and business. Get out of things you have no RIGHT to be involved in.

Get INTO what you should be doing, like protecting the sovereignty of the United States of America and her citizens!



It's interesting to note that many police associations support this bill. Why? Maybe they are sick of having officers murdered by illegals!
 
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OK, folks, let's blow the foam off the beer and look at reality.

First, this "profiling" business. If you drive up North in Arizona from near our southern border, you will encounter a Border Patrol checkpoint. They look at you. If you look gringo, they wave you on through, no questions asked. Now tell me, does the Federal Government profile? You bet your bippee they do. They doubt, as do I, that a whole lot of Scandinavians are pouring across our border. Will the Federal Government moan about Arizona's law fomenting profiling? Of course. You figure it out.

Do illegal aliens (oops, undocumented immigrants) constitute a crime problem in Arizona? The answer is an unqualified YES. Here in Maricopa County, Sheriff Joe finds that 67% of illegals he arrests (everything from traffic violations to rape, murder, human smuggling, kidnapping) already have a criminal record. Phoenix is one of the kidnapping hotspots in the nation, being either #1 or #2, depending on who you ask. Not a day goes by that the West side of Phoenix doesn't have a murder committed by an illegal. The motive is usually drugs or human smuggling. "Safe houses" crowded with illegals are busted here almost every week. A border rancher was brutally murdered a month or so ago; the tracks of his assailant led back into Mexico.

Do illegal aliens cost the taxpayers money? You bet. The emergency rooms are crowded with them. According to the law, if they don't have the money, they don't have to pay. And they don't. Who does? You do. We do. They have their babies (for free) here so that baby can be an official U.S. citizen (an "anchor baby)." And they go on welfare. We pay for this. Illegal day laborers linger on street corners, asking for work. They are usually paid in cash, and pay no taxes on their wages.

Will the Federal Government secure our borders? No. They've frammed that up just like everything else they spend our money on. The Southern border is a sieve; we now have over 12 million illegals in the U.S. IF THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT DOES NOT STOP THE FLOW OF ILLEGALS, THE STATES CAN AND MUST TAKE ACTION!

Is public opinion in Arizona behind the new state law? Yes. Over 70% support it. In a radio poll taken yesterday, 80% support it. In short, we're fed up, and we won't take it any more!

Will the new law be roadblocked? Sadly, yes. The opponents of the law will do everything they can, and they have municipal and judicial sympathy. Look for injunctions against it until some black-robed pontificator will rule that it's unconstitutional. Such judges are not hard to find.

I have no problem with people of Hispanic descent. I have many friends among them. And most of them feel as I do - immigrate to the U.S. legally. Learn our language. Learn our history and our way of life. Then you will have our rights, but not until then.

If Mexicans want to work in the U.S., I understand that. Let's get a migrant worker program that will give them identification so they can do it legally - but no citizenship until the legal requirements are met.

It's time to get tough. Seal the borders first; then let's deal with immigration "reform." Until the Federal Government gets serious about stopping the flow, I have no faith in them whatsoever. The states have to act until they can.
 
+1 for P*5020
The first rule of holes is that if you are in one stop digging!
We must stop, preferably reverse, the influx of illegals before we attempt a fix on those here.
The "fix" will involve reducing the incentives to stay.
We will never be able to correct the "root cause" of people wanting to come.
Pace to Lee but, Mexico may blow up without us as a safety valve, better that than both Mexico and the US Southwest.
 
we have a fed that will do nothing in any admin that has had this issue on their plate.
we have a fed that will step on the neck of any state that tries to correct the feds mistake on the matter.
we have at least two state governments that would like to do something .. yeah you can bet TX would like to jump on the AZ band wagon.
and we have majority populations of of most of the states in the union who'd love to see something done.

since the fed will nullify the measures of the states ... that leaves the citizenry.
the citizenry has one tool ... it is steel and makes a lot of noise.
nope, we are not there yet ... but unless the fed stops with their self colon exam, that's where it has no choice but to go and will probably be on two fronts. against the immigrants, and against the fed that will undoubtedly try to quash the attempt.

in any useful solution, Mexico will pitch a fit about it. Its almost written in stone.
the cash funneling in from the illegals ultimately lines the pockets of the upper echelons. I doubt they'd like that pipeline cut off. in fact I would lay bets that illegal immigration is an unspoken program over there to widen that pipeline.
You can bet that if Mexico implodes that it will not do so without getting some of it on us.

the winds of war aren't blowing ... they are howling from far more corners of the map than just this.
its just a matter of time before it takes shape.
 
As resident of Arizona (85739), I must say, well said Paladin 85020! Enough is enough, it is time to take our state and country back from the criminals and their supporters. If you are here illegally you ARE a criminal, it is as simple as that.
 
Interesting discussion to say the least.
There are a lot of fine honest people coming up here to try to make a living and give their children a chance at a better life. Are they going about it the wrong way? You bet they are. The paper work and time involved to cross legally is very time consuming and expensive. But faced with the same prospects we would be doing the same for our children if going to Canada was a better life than what we could earn here. Is there an easy answer? From the discussion here and out there no there is no easy answer.

Those in the Northern, Eastern and Mid West states who want to send in the military and let God sort out the rest obviously have never lived among the people in question. For one thing the violence advocated is way out of line, we are Americans (we pride ourselves as being the good guys) and have never as a people condoned the killing of innocents or potentially guilty for any reason especially because they were crossing illegally. How do you separate the criminal from the illegal immigrant during a field interview or at a hundred meters through a rifle scope? Yes, there are some gimme's like possession of a weapon or narcotics but for the most part how do you tell?
Those working the border have a hard job to do and my hat is off to you for doing your best.

How would a land mine know the difference? People are still tripping mines in Vietnam left over from our time there. On U.S. soil?

It would make sense to Micro Chip each and every convicted felon and use a portable scanner for an instant read out. The technology is there.

Please don't take me for a 'bleeding heart liberal'. I am anything but that. I am surely not 'Politically Correct'. I spent a good portion of my adult life as an LEO here in Central California dealing with illegals who were either Criminal or Victim. I've had a first hand view of the good side and the bad side of these people so it's hard to subscribe to a blanket treatment of all illegals.

Quote: What we need is another "Black Jack Pershing" down there for a year or so.

All Pershing did was stir up a lot of dust, get lost and spend lots of money. He didn't catch anyone, shot at a few people and went home hot and dirty.

That's my two cents. If you don't agree please refund my money.
 
4330Inroute said:
For one thing the violence advocated is way out of line, we are Americans (we pride ourselves as being the good guys) and have never as a people condoned the killing of innocents or potentially guilty for any reason especially because they were crossing illegally.
Click to expand...
I understand and respect your point of view. However, innocents are being slaughtered now, anglo and latino, on both sides of the border. It's a war and innocents are lost in all wars. We do pride ourselves on taking the high road but in any war it gets ugly. This mess will be no exception and we're going to have to accept that.

Bob
 
If I were in the shoes of those trying to get in to work here and better my family I would be first in line to cross the border illegally. I suspect that were I a criminal coming here because pickings were easier and the penalty lower if caught, I would again head up the line.

Would I expect the citizens and government of the US to stop me, absolutely! Would I be amazed at the Fed's "catch and release" which allows me to keep coming back until I make it, again astonished and delighted.

I do not fault the workers for trying. We cannot continue to allow them to succeed.
 
4330- i have lived among them in several of countries south of the united states. there are hard working people who want and need jobs. however, this is supposed to be a country of laws and as such there are procedures for immigration. in my hometown, we have a large influx of latins who work at the pig packing plant. he have had driveby shootings, shootings in bars, and a growing gang violence problem. the time of talk is quickly getting to be over with and if the citizens of this country don't do something soon, there won't be a country left. fortify the border, electrify the fence and towers every 1000yds. with 50 cals in them.
 
The link below shows a riot at the Arizona Capitol building following Governor Brewer's signing the illegal immigration bill.

'Small' Riot in Arizona over Illegal Immigration Bill (VIDEO) - HUMAN EVENTS

Today I heard on the radio that the illegal supporters smeared swastikas on the Capitol walls, using refried beans. I'm not making this stuff up. It's been out of hand for a long time, and it's getting worse.
 
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